Survival of The Premiership?

[Falcon1983 557]

This might be an idea which is a bit left field but with about 12 clubs left combining the prem and championship might be the best idea either as one league or a 6 team north division and a 6 team south 

Anyway thinking outside of the box why don't they look at having 7 rider teams but sort of two teams in one, a main team and a development team, those who can afford the top riders can use them

For example

Ipswich Witches

1. Doyle 2. Hume 3. King 4. Rew are the main body riders

1 & 2, 3 & 4, 1 & 3, 2 & 4, 1 & 4, 2 & 3 

They all race with each other across 6 heats of the program 

No.5 Jordan Jenkins is classed as a senior reserve rider, he can only ride with the two non heat leaders

So 5 & 2, 5 & 4 race together so thats an additional 2 heats taking the programme to 8 heats

No.6 (Joe Thompson) and No.7 (Max Perry) are the reserves

They get two reserve heats and one ride each with the senior reserve

So 6 & 7, 6 & 7, 5 & 6, 5 & 7 so thats 4 races making 12 heats all 4 main riders and the senior reserve get 4 rides, the reserves 3 rides

Heats 13 & 14 are nominated 

Its one less heat however some form of junior racing or 2nd halves could be introduced

 

[The Dog 413]

Sadly, when Sky were throwing millions at it and bringing it to our living rooms, the BSPA weren't interested in investing in the sport so their not going to help now it's on life support... 

[tonyd 165]

2 hours ago, Baldyman said:

 

It's also about having an evening out where you go home feeling entertained,,, it's been said thousands of times before,,, but alot of people want more for their money,,,, not just 15 races,, where you may see a couple of good ones,, or maybe not,,, 5 mins of watching a tractor going round every 15 mins whilst listening to the greatest hits of the 70s,,, don't cut it in modern life. 

With all the suggestions in this thread about six man teams, north / south leagues race nights etc all means nothing as at the end of the day the sport needs supporters and what the supporter wants more than anything (as quoted above)   "It's also about having an evening out where you go home feeling entertained" and at present that is something the supporter is not getting in fact the supporter is treated as a cash cow for the club each week with no respect or real return for there money by the sport. (Look at the Sheffield v Peterborough match tonight) Promotions moan about the lack of crowds at matches but at the same time the  crowd are getting fed up of seeing the same teams twice or three times a season and the same rider(s) six or eight times a season wearing different team colours. 

Maybe before this great sport totally collapses in this country certain people should look at Barry Bishop and the Isle of White who seem to regularly put on an entertaining fast moving and  packed programme of motorcycle action that seems to leave the crowd wanting more and wanting to come back to see more of the action again and again. 

The way the sport is going in this country I can see the IoW (and maybe one or two who join them and there ideas of motorcycling entertainment) being the last ones standing as the other clubs across the country fall by the wayside.

[mikebv 10,291]

The tipping point has long since passed...

What we have now is a made up, contrived operating model trying to masquerade as a team sport..

And that is the best they can come up with, (not a criticism as without them there wouldnt be Speedway)...

It has to be, as by no stretch of the imagination would you want, or design, to run the sport in the current way, if you were starting it tomorrow.. 

Too many fundamental flaws in their "cunning plan", and too much self interest, with no independent arbiter to be the gatekeeper of integrity and credibility, delivers exactly what we now have..

That won't change..

The sport, over here, is just in existence to allow riders to earn as much as they can, as many times a week as they can, and for promoters to have a "plaything" that allows them to feel that they are in some way playing a major role in a "professional sport" which has some relevance..

And, to allow the feeling that it somehow all matters, fans then have to collude with them, and suspend reality each time they attend..

It wont matter how many riders per team we have, or how the leagues are constructed, or what nights they race on...

It will still all ultimately end up as "let's make it all up as we go along" as no one will ever be "in charge" to stop it, and save the sport from itself...

Just go along, enjoy the racing, and, if so inclined, join in and pretend it means something...

The sport wont ever "reset", and it wont ever allow outside guidance and administration..

As, if it wanted to, it would have done so many, many years ago given the obvious flaws in its operating model..

Plenty of decent racing to be had around the country each week, so pick and choose which meetings to attend over a season, and enjoy them for what they are, and dont get too hung up on any results...

Treat it similar to something like WWE and class it as "sports entertainment" and you can still have an excellent, value for money, night out depending on the level of racing and promotional skill set of those in charge on the night..

An almost annual dwindling amount of tracks and fanbase can only end one way sadly, so make the most of it, and, hopefully, your local track will keep going for a good few years yet..

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by mikebv

[Najjer 2,890]

7 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

This might be an idea which is a bit left field but with about 12 clubs left combining the prem and championship might be the best idea either as one league or a 6 team north division and a 6 team south 

Anyway thinking outside of the box why don't they look at having 7 rider teams but sort of two teams in one, a main team and a development team, those who can afford the top riders can use them

For example

Ipswich Witches

1. Doyle 2. Hume 3. King 4. Rew are the main body riders

1 & 2, 3 & 4, 1 & 3, 2 & 4, 1 & 4, 2 & 3 

They all race with each other across 6 heats of the program 

No.5 Jordan Jenkins is classed as a senior reserve rider, he can only ride with the two non heat leaders

So 5 & 2, 5 & 4 race together so thats an additional 2 heats taking the programme to 8 heats

No.6 (Joe Thompson) and No.7 (Max Perry) are the reserves

They get two reserve heats and one ride each with the senior reserve

So 6 & 7, 6 & 7, 5 & 6, 5 & 7 so thats 4 races making 12 heats all 4 main riders and the senior reserve get 4 rides, the reserves 3 rides

Heats 13 & 14 are nominated 

Its one less heat however some form of junior racing or 2nd halves could be introduced

 

This idea is majorly flawed though as is any idea of one big league in that there isn’t enough riders to make it work, especially with 7 man teams.

Matter of fact, you will end up losing even more riders than you have now as the likes of Doyle, Holder, Bewley and just about anybody who rides in Poland in either of the top divisions on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday won’t be racing here at Berwick, Scunthorpe or Edinburgh etc on a weekend. That idea simply won’t work.

[StarBoy 165]

For me, the stumbling block to getting more fans through the gate (which is the only way clubs will survive is the entrance fee). £22 to watch 15 minutes of actual "racing" just doesn't offer value for money for the paying customer.

I will continue to use Poland as a comparison, which I understand the cost of living is currently lower. £10-£15 is a much better value for proposition for the paying customer and yes I'm aware sponsors front up a lot £, but would the sponsors do that if the clubs didn't get fans bums on seats? 

I don't understand why clubs can't trial it for 1 meeting, reducing the entrance fee to see if it attracts more crowd through the gate. Take King's Lynn Vs Ipswich coming up in August, that will be Lynn's biggest gate of the year, but if a ticket cost £15 for example imagine how many more fans might be enticed. The same for any derby match so to speak

If the trial doesn't work at least you've chose a meeting where you're already expecting your highest gate and haven't really lost out compared to other meetings where you have your lowest crowds...

[The Dog 413]

Remember at Coventry suggesting to Mick Horton that he should give a load of free tickets to local businesses, clubs, etc in the hope that they would enjoy it and want to come back. He argued it would cost too much and he'd lose money on those people. But there not coming in the first place so your losing nothing bar the printing of the tickets! 

Wouldn't have it, couldn't see the potential opportunity... 

[Daniel Smith 5,666]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

Remember at Coventry suggesting to Mick Horton that he should give a load of free tickets to local businesses, clubs, etc in the hope that they would enjoy it and want to come back. He argued it would cost too much and he'd lose money on those people. But there not coming in the first place so your losing nothing bar the printing of the tickets! 

Wouldn't have it, couldn't see the potential opportunity... 

King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. 

The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. 

[steve roberts 9,246]

Just now, Daniel Smith said:

King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. 

The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. 

I seem to recall that Arena Essex (as they were once called) tried a similar thing some years back?

[truthsayer 234]

15 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Remember at Coventry suggesting to Mick Horton that he should give a load of free tickets to local businesses, clubs, etc in the hope that they would enjoy it and want to come back. He argued it would cost too much and he'd lose money on those people. But there not coming in the first place so your losing nothing bar the printing of the tickets! 

Wouldn't have it, couldn't see the potential opportunity... 

Only really works if you have a product people would want to go back to...

I live 10 minutes from a speedway track and haven't been for 10 years. If someone gave me free tickets I might go if I was bored and the weather was nice, but even for free I doubt I'd rush back. 

I did try going a few times when I moved to the area but honestly it was just dragging out and old hat. Don't think I would spend a fiver on it, let alone £50 for the three of us.

Now I follow on TV and internet. GPs are a good product (although also slightly in decline) but league racing is just dire.

Speedway's an individual sport. Its future can only be in attracting individuals to come along and participate. The money competitors put into the sport is what could keep it alive, spectator numbers are so low as to almost be irrelevant. Team speedway can survive, but not by importing expensive ingredients to perform in front of tiny spectator numbers.

[Najjer 2,890]

52 minutes ago, StarBoy said:

For me, the stumbling block to getting more fans through the gate (which is the only way clubs will survive is the entrance fee). £22 to watch 15 minutes of actual "racing" just doesn't offer value for money for the paying customer.

I will continue to use Poland as a comparison, which I understand the cost of living is currently lower. £10-£15 is a much better value for proposition for the paying customer and yes I'm aware sponsors front up a lot £, but would the sponsors do that if the clubs didn't get fans bums on seats? 

I don't understand why clubs can't trial it for 1 meeting, reducing the entrance fee to see if it attracts more crowd through the gate. Take King's Lynn Vs Ipswich coming up in August, that will be Lynn's biggest gate of the year, but if a ticket cost £15 for example imagine how many more fans might be enticed. The same for any derby match so to speak

If the trial doesn't work at least you've chose a meeting where you're already expecting your highest gate and haven't really lost out compared to other meetings where you have your lowest crowds...

There is certainly some legs in this - what do promotors nowadays actually do to ‘promote’ other than sticking a post on their own Facebook page, which is seen by only speedway fans?

Years ago, Somerset used tonne great at it. There was various points through the summer when bikes were set up on the sea front, tickets handed out (these can be easily tracked with names and addresses when handed out to avoid the issues above about them getting into the wrong hands) and we had some huge crowds for the first times that Somerset were featured on the TV. 

For clubs that are generating their income via car parks, programmes, food and drink outlets too, if you’ve given away a free admission ticket then you are getting almost free money on these extra outlets that you wouldn’t of been getting previously. 

For a long time, the UK’s operating model has been fewer fans year after year so they bump the price up - instead of trying to get old fans back and increasing people attending. 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

1 hour ago, StarBoy said:

For me, the stumbling block to getting more fans through the gate (which is the only way clubs will survive is the entrance fee). £22 to watch 15 minutes of actual "racing" just doesn't offer value for money for the paying customer.

I will continue to use Poland as a comparison, which I understand the cost of living is currently lower. £10-£15 is a much better value for proposition for the paying customer and yes I'm aware sponsors front up a lot £, but would the sponsors do that if the clubs didn't get fans bums on seats? 

I don't understand why clubs can't trial it for 1 meeting, reducing the entrance fee to see if it attracts more crowd through the gate. Take King's Lynn Vs Ipswich coming up in August, that will be Lynn's biggest gate of the year, but if a ticket cost £15 for example imagine how many more fans might be enticed. The same for any derby match so to speak

If the trial doesn't work at least you've chose a meeting where you're already expecting your highest gate and haven't really lost out compared to other meetings where you have your lowest crowds...

The Poles maybe paying £15 each but when the salary is only half of the UK equivalent that is effectively like charging £30

£22 doesn't look so steep then does it....

[iainb 5,022]

7 hours ago, mikebv said:

The sport wont ever "reset", and it wont ever allow outside guidance and administration..

As, if it wanted to, it would have done so many, many years ago given the obvious flaws in its operating model..

It was very different times and well before my time... but wasn't Speedway in the UK on it's arse before back in the late 50's early 60's after a period of huge post war crowds? Weren't they down to about 10 or 12 clubs and some Lord carried out a report into the problems and the whole sport was reset and restructured and this led to the boom of the 70's.

Now all of that could be completely wrong, others on here will know exactly what happened, I'm just piecing together bits I've remembered from reading the SS from years ago that I wasn't really that interested in, but I do believe there has been some kind of reset before, but like I said very different times

[StarBoy 165]

7 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

The Poles maybe paying £15 each but when the salary is only half of the UK equivalent that is effectively like charging £30

£22 doesn't look so steep then does it....

If you actually follow international economics, you would see that Poland is due to overtake the UK in the next few years.

And in response to your comment, Poland isn't suffering as much of a financial crisis as the UK. 

Housing prices are reasonable, inflation is low, interest rates are low etc etc the list goes on. Therefore, more disposable income available. Here, people have to make a choice - eat, bills etc - or go to speedway. Theres only one winner. All I'm saying is if entrance fees are lower, at least you're making an effort and showing initiative to try and get more fans in.

Take Lynn for example, you pay £22 entrance, you're then obliged to pay £2 if you want to sit and another £3 if you wish for a programme. £27 before you've even considered a drink or something to eat... that doesn't scream value for money to me. You're effectively paying £2 a race... Which to me does look steep. 

[bellevueace 913]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. 

The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. 

I remember when ice hockey started in the arena, Manchester had the biggest crowds by far normally between 12,000- 20,000, i was talking about this with John Perrin and he said it wont last, the majority of the crowd are there thanks to free tickets to promotes the sport, a couple of seasons later the free ticket scheme was pulled and the club went bust as it wasnt viable, after a few years they did reform but at Altrincham ice rink with an average attendance of around 1,400.