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Well I called it earlier on that I thought we might sneak a point, and with Doyle and Holder continueing their fine form from Poland yesterday it's a pity we didn't get any more. Belle Vue no doubt weakened by having no Worrall but it's unlikely Charles Wright will have another stinker of a night again considering the form he's been in this season. A good well earned point it seems.

Because they have imported many of the factors crippling the top tier: chaotic fixture lists, excessive guests and costs. It's also been busy supplying tracks to prop up the higher tier and as a result has become predominantly a shrunken east coast league with large tracts of the country remote from its members. The guest problem is hopefully being addressed this year but the clash between Swindon's fixtures and those of the Thursday CL tracks has already arisen. The road ahead is not to create a league based on today's CL but one based on, for argument's sake the original British League where the few surviving National League (D1) teams finally realised they had to work on the Provincial League's (D2) terms to build one strong, healthy league with a robust, varied fixture list and teams that the sport could afford, the latter achieved through rider control, later points limits. An amalgamation would not be an instant remedy but it would be a significant step forward in providing realistic fixture lists and hopefully teams where guests are a rarity. As ever, it's a little more complex than saying "Well, if the second tier's so good then why aren't they getting better crowds?". Evils that cripple the top tier affect all levels of our sport. Continuity and team stability are key to getting the faith back of the disappearing supporters, but most crucially we must re-create a sport with credible governance, where riders don't treat it as easily avoidable paid practice for more important pay days elsewhere, and give a sense of value for money and leave people wanting more. Sadly today we seem to be dependent on those who don't really care for the sport, just the glory of their team winning. That may work in football but not ion a minority sport like ours.

Pre 1990 it was only the communist isolation of Poland and the consequent lack of hard currency there that held them back in terms of world speedway, and I'm not necessarily talking about the riders and their equipment. Under the planned economy sport was tightly regulated and highly subsidised. In a society where consumer goods were partly-restricted or extremely expensive sport was a cheap way to enjoy life. Speedway in Poland, raced in stadia usually built with public money, attracted huge crowds even back then and once the old system fell and Poland could trade in hard currency the floodgates opened to hiring foreign talent to entertain their huge crowds. The explosion of conversion to a western consumer society saw a wave of controversially-regulated opportunism in business and sport now saw the benefits of sponsorship and large TV audiences to back up the crowds in the stadia. With that momentum it's no surprise that Polish Speedway now dominates and that with all of their money on offer they wanted to expand from just one day a week racing to a full weekend. Sadly, weakened by the BSI calendar robbing us of Saturdays and many Fridays it's Britain that's had to give way. We used to be the honey pot for riders, now it's Poland and we're left with the wreckage. There are many reasons for the success of Polish Speedway and the failure of the British version and it is far wider than us having bad promoters and them having great ones. Despite the wealth over there there has been a disgusting trail of unpaid debts caused by insanely false promises. You could understand British promoters struggling to pay their commitments but not a Polish equivalent with 10,000+ crowds! We cannot compete with Poland and it's not all about BSPA incompetence. Wouldn't it be great if we had local government, sponsors and thousands of customers paying for great stadia? Apart from the case of Belle Vue we don't and have to get by with what we have. If we can't compete we must isolate and rebuild under our own terms. We must not have our best tracks racing on the worst nights.

Poland appears to get decent crowds on a Sunday afternoon and they are really enthusiastic too. I like how they put the 2 minute timer on when the bikes leave the pits and the gates go up 2 minutes later, getting to the starting gate and any gardening, clutch adjusting or goggle adjusting all takes place within this 2 minutes. How is it that Polish supporters can show so much enthusiasm for their sport when the Btitish looks like they are the congregation at a funeral. This showing of Polish speedway on TV just highlights how pathetic the sport is in this country. Very sad I find it. I remember many happy days at Norwich Speedway at the Firs, before they sadly closed, when the riders did a lap of honour when the crowds could wave and cheer their riders and the chanting of the supporters before a race cheering the riders on all added to the atmosphere. We would meet the riders at the pit gates as they arrived at the track as they parked their vans and trailers , unloading their bikes to push them to the pits. They were ready to stop for a chat and sign autographs. A great family atmosphere. In those days our regular night was Saturday with the occasional Wednesday night but the Saturday crowds were always the best attended of the two.

The custodians of our sport are taking it to the brink of extinction. No other nation gives a fig about British Speedway, most promoters don’t give a fig about the supporters and if you read through the various threads a lot of the diehards (those in their 50’s and 60’s) are giving up. The armchair follower is now voting by not turning up to live meetings. TV cannot be blamed, if it is why do the Poles still have large contingents of very vocal support when a meeting is televised. It is primarily down to lack of weekly racing, early call offs and fans short changed with a mediocre product. The powers that be have in one swoop brought speedway to its knees with the last BSPA conference and it is baffling how these so called business people can be so blind as to not see what they are doing. Have they got more money than sense. Get back to basics and start again putting British racing first and if they want to compete again on the international front have test matches in this country but give the sport back to its fans.

Buxton have done a lot for British Speedway, I take my hat of to them.

Just bought my Speedway Star (two in consecutive weeks!) and enjoyed the articles on Ivan...especially Alan Wilkinson's tribute.

Arrived at track. Sunshine speedway it is tonight. Beautiful today

Same at Somerset Trees - albeit a different team from last year, Doyle and Wilson-Dean have returned having ridden for us before so the only newbies are Jepperson and Holder... and then Holder signed for us a few years back before being dropped because of an average cock up. It's one of those myths where if people keep saying it enough, people start believing it!

I forgot Starman needs the full explanation!

The proven points scorer ForeverBlue was referring to, would be Hans Andersen who was ousted to fit Sundstrom in.

Really not surprised by this after talking to him Thursday night. Fingers crossed he can return at some point. Good luck in the quest for a replacement, and well done on your win at home.

Away from home a guest can only be up to the missing rider’s average. For a home meeting a guest can have an average up to the missing rider’s + 5%.

Yes i have dont read the posr properly. Still nothing new is it

hey we could get the runners up spot with 13 we won at scunny last year and as long as scunny don't move the meeting to a Thursday ... we are nailed on to win .... we have a 100% record on days that dont start with a T

I was totally against what occurred with money passing hands for the services of Jack Holder never agree with anything like that but regardless if I found it acceptable or not , I am entitled to make comments or remarks without the likes of people like you to ridicule it just because I support Panthers and happen to live in the Peterborough area

MikeBV, As a seasoned diehard speedway nut I too have very often spent hours delving into the reasons, this sport of our, has descended into the state it is. It was refreshing to read your post out-lining the numerous problems thus showing that I am not the only one who thinks along them same lines. For many years I have thought it was ludicrous that we should try and compete with them Poles . We have neither the power or popularity needed to do that, yet we continue to try.... Rider and machines have become too expensive for Promoters to arrange race meetings witnessed by a mere 1000 die-hard fans. This is a recipe for disaster, a sure-fire financial suicidal exercise that has all but killed the sport. The main reasons our sport cant attract new fans are Cost; VFM and Organisation. Expecting fans to pay £18 for 15 mins racing of riders, most of whom aren't top level, is way over the top. ( that's twice as much as the Polish charge to see top quality riders), Joe Public wouldn't tell the difference between Jason Doyle or Joe Bloggs so it ridiculous charging those expensive rates. VFM is just as important but again little importance is put toward the evening entertainment. It seems we are expected to pay to come in and then they forget about you.. Organisation is a joke, Sometimes we race on a Monday, next it might be Wednesday, before this year, it could have been any day. Sometime we race every week sometimes it only once a month. IT has been known to have 3 meetings in a week, sometimes 2 meeting on the same day.,. You cant imagine what a distraction that is. That wouldn't attract customers in a million years, but that is not important to them. Sometimes I think the BSPA haven't got a clue.. The only section to benefit from the way our sport is run is the riders.... and all they do is hold their hand out... Like you both say, the only salvation I can see is to separate ourselves from the other countries and run our own sport at a cost that the fans can afford on the days it best suited to gain maximum exposure..... We cannot afford to compete with the likes of Poland and Sweden anymore....

Hawk127 has hit the nail squarely on the head in the above post " All very sad and no doubt many more will get out of the habit of going" I know I have already. From being a regular at Rye I stopped going each and every week in about 2008/9 and just started picking and choosing my meetings. Moved to the East Midlands in 2012 and not been to a meeting since coming up here and now get my fix via television, internet, youtube and dvd. Sad I know and Im sure many on here will say im not a true supporter BUT watching it this way I dont have to drive for xxx amount of miles each way, stand around in a clapped out stadium and go home £30 or £40 lighter in the pocket and moan about the meeting or lack of meeting at the end of the day. Plus the best bit of watching speedway my way is that if its crap there is always the off switch or something on another channel. High speed bikes with lay down engines and slick tracks I think killed it for me its all open throttle and hang on today ........ what happened to throttle control and riders natural skill and ability? I think whats even sadder is that im 61 this year and I just cannot see myself attending another live meeting

Don't think there is any doubt... Friday, Saturday, Sunday are the best days to attract a crowd if you run a Sport, or are in the Entertainment and Leisure industry, (Speedway you would say ticks both boxes).. No surprise therefore that Poland run on these nights and at the meeting to agree each Countries race nights they didn't suggest Britain takes their days' over and that they would run Monday/Thursday (or even Wednesday as it transpired)... If Mondays were such a great night to attract a Speedway crowd you would have to think the Poles would have ensured they took it... British Speedway simply cannot compete with Poland so shouldnt even give it a consideration and plough it's own furrow.. Run at the weekend with lads who are happy earning a 'normal' job's weekly wage for four or five races a night.. Run with lads who reside over here to keep hotel and air fare costs out of the equation and, if needs be, run with five or six man teams to shave even more off the expenditure.. And run consistently, either once a week, or once a fortnight if all the League runs on the same night... Do that and maybe admission fees could gradually come down to attract even more numbers through the gate to add to what 'Weekend Speedway' would bring. It would be a lot easier to sell the sport media wise, and market it nationally collectively, (rather than individually) too, having a full fixture list over say three days, rather than the fragmented way it is currently ran..

I think the decline/rot has already set in and the weather is just what it has always been, dire. I am sure they are justified, but call offs are all too frequent when even there is a hint that the weather looks dodgy. Go back a few years and they would do anything to try and get a meeting on and go back many years they used sawdust. The lack of speedway on nights (mainly thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday) when fans want to watch and with weekends when you have the best chance of good crowds, is something I find ludicrous. The decline is evident on this forum. The lack of feedback to those meetings that are on and in some cases nothing at all or perhaps one comment says it all. I agree with Rob re the state of things and I think it could well be the end of the road for a number of clubs come September. All very sad and no doubt many more will get out of the habit of going. One big league with home and away, ko cup and British invidual championship and you probably would get back to regularly weekly meetings. This country can no longer compete with Poland, Sweden or Denmark and the other nations such as Germany will soon overtake the U.K. Back to basics might just save speedway in this country.

Last week James had to go now szczepaniak make you mind up ?

I understand that Poole wasn't objecting to the idea of Mondays and Thursdays, but once it was known that the 3 Championships sides wanted to keeps Thursday race nights, Poole went along with-it, knowing that it would enable them to retain their Wednesday race nights... ( as per BSPA philosophy, thinking only of themselves) Had it been agreed to run on Thurs,& Mondays Poole would have run as per charter... It bothers me not which days the sport is run, as long as it is done properly. If all speedway countries run to FIM Directives, then why cant we do the same??. How can 3 second division teams be given the opportunity to overrule FIM idea of country priority for the sake of their own being?? What makes a mockery of it all is that Swindon are allowed to run on a day different to everybody else... ( I understand the reasons why) It seems to me that those who wish, can do what they like, when they like. and then they ask why are fans fed up to their teeth with it all... Piss-Up and Brewery come to mind............

That has to be the easiest game of "Where's Wally?" ever known...... I take it the Echo are trying to put their readers off going to Wimborne Road. That reminds me, The Living Dead's on.......

Thank you I will..by not putting any more of my money in their pockets.

Quite enjoyed the meeting but my word it was a cold one. Not a huge crowd but good racing on a well prepared track, just needed a little more dirt but with weather it's totally understandable. A few riders were inconsistent and a few unfortunately were consistent! Danny had a good ride vs Scott but looks a shadow of the rider he was 2 years ago, Hans looked OK and Bjerre was good value. Scott looked better than he did vs wolves a few weeks back and seems to enjoy racing at Leicester pulling of a great move on Hans to pass him.KK was just KK, brilliant or frustrating as hell as he had speed and when he was up for it he was just an a different level but why he rides at 60% at times is the annoying part and tootling round at the back not trying is also something I think fans don't appreciate. Bomber is also a shadow of the rider I enjoyed watching so much at Brandon, it wasn't just the speed but not being aggressive enough in the first bend and then being swallowed up and then stuck at the back. I hope he sorts out whatever the issue is as it's far from just the bikes. Summers was also good value for Rye. The final score was fair, Rye won't reach the play off's with this team and the same for Leicester in my opinion but in saying that like I said at the beginning I thoroughly enjoyed it and will be back for a few more meetings.

Kasprzak lol and this is why I want a change. Risky leaving it for too long and could cost us a play-off place.

15.8.1 If the Referee stops a heat, following an incident or accident, where the rider causing the stoppage and his team partner were in third and fourth place and a re-run is called with one of those riders excluded, the Referee has the sole discretion to order that the remaining team partner will start on a 15 metre handicap in gate position c or d (the opposing team does not change positions). Doesn't say anything about not clearing the track.

Was he ill? What exactly was the reason he missed Saturday? Can only go by what lakeside put out, which is unavailable due to illness, which is covered by a 7 day ban.

I thought the idea was riders to improve their average not drop them! So no he isn't doing ok.

Let’s not knock Jayne so much folks. Anyone who reads the Buxton thread regularly will know that she regularly interacts with fans, giving them information and insights into the what, why and wherefore of many situations. She has always come across as someone with the fans best interests at heart and, I wish more promoters were like her. I am a Brummies fan but due to work, wasn’t there on Sunday so I don’t know what really occurred but I’m sure that whatever may have been said by Jayne in the heat of the aftermath of the event, that when things have calmed down, she will do the right thing. I’m sure this will include making sure no fan is left feeling ripped off or, out of pocket Anybody who puts their heart and soul into an enterprise such as Buxton which let’s face it, is never going to make anyone rich, should be applauded so despite the rights and wrongs of yesterday the sport needs promotors like Jayne and, clubs like Buxton, If the comments attributed to Josh and Jayne on social media and on their official club website, are a little one sided, can any of you really say that your club has never been guilty of this, has never seen things only from their point of view? any real fan who has been around speedway for any length of time, knows how these things work regarding re-admission tickets, and the risks taken when attending meetings where there has been a prolonged period of inclement weather. yes, that’s probably why so many fans don’t bother taking the risk these days so ALL PROMOTORS should bear this in mind before they take people’s money and admit fans into the stadium if there is even the slightest chance that the meeting will be called off. The sport can’t afford to lose any more fans and at this rate, not even the hard core fans will bother attending away matches in anything other than the middle of a heat wave. Away fans are becoming as rare as rocking horse droppings at most meetings these days. what really concerns me most about yesterday is that it seams that Jayne was saying that the track would be ok after a few races which implies that it wouldn’t have been ok during those races!!! With there being several very young and very inexperienced riders in both teams, this could have meant one of more getting seriously injured. It only takes half a lap for even an experienced Grand Prix rider to get seriously injured JUST ASK MARTIN VASULIK If there is any risk to these young riders, their safety should always come first and the meeting should ALWAYS be cancelled Even if Josh and Jayne got it wrong yesterday, this Brummies fan is prepared to forgive them as I’m sure that when push comes to shove, they will do the right thing by the fans who were left feeling so annoyed and disappointed yesterday

maybe they should have a -5% if away,,, that would make sense.

I cant believe that the BSPA wasted precious time at their AGM coming up with rule that puts a rider back on 15mtr to safeguard they're original positions when the race was stopped... As if that is the most important problem we have ...

Both lawson and howarth riding tonight makes a mockery of the rule book can anyone explain how they have got away with it .

Sorry wrong Thread

Well thats a new one. Extra time allowed for a bike that has two on the trot.

I think the expectations on King are too high. He's an adequate third heat leader and actually pretty consistent season to season. He's not going to make the jump to international standard or win many heat 15s, but can do a job.

Those that do will most likely become those that used to soon - used to go that is.....

If sundstrom was the direct replacement for Hans can't see what the advantage was personally I'm sure someone will tell me .Hans for me every time

Perhaps it has been 7 days? Just because he didn't ride at the weekend, doesn't mean the 7 days started from Friday, if the rule that you're quoting is correct.

I don't have any idea of rules etc., but if this was the case, how were they given a facility for him??

You should have done what you thought was best, regardless of what other folk might do,,, must admit that I wish I had had a different hat on, to keep me big ears warm like

a shame but not unexpected given his injury woes hope to see you back soon Lewis so the diamonds have 7.75 to play with

Simply no one can be a success when they all share the same 'employees'... The credibility (or lack of it) effectively puts every track at a huge disadvantage as no one can in all honesty take the Leagues seriously... .. Running at weekend, with settled sides of 'your riders' can only be a major step forward... The Entertainment and Leisure industry invariably does 'Specials' on Monday to Wednesday to attract punters after the money spinning weekend... British Speedway must have expected to buck that trend and have thousands climbing over each other to get out to their local Speedway track.... I admire their optimism..

Hopefully it will be off. The Walks is the only place for me on Wednesday, especially at £6 cheaper.

Wield the whip?

Why do they need to sponsor British speedway, and why would they want to? Sponsorship is not a charitable donation.

Plus the forecast of rain on Wednesday.And we are meant to be the area that has the least rainfall in the UK

Fast Freddie only dropped 2 points in 4 Ekstraliga rounds. 21 heats, 60 points, 1 bonus. Dominator, Spacemen.

I think you're exactly right but the key problem will be persuading those who worship 'names' that this right. We need, sadly, to isolate ourselves from Poland before their needs and demands destroy what remains of British Speedway. Unfortunately losing the remaining 'names' is probably too much for the short-sighted that post here. People believed the fairy tale that switching to fixed nights would bring back the 'names'. It didn't, only money and the occasional bout of loyalty (c.f. Jason Doyle) will. We need to rebuild and get our weekends back. All we are doing now is retreating to accommodate the needs of the Poles and their chequebooks.

a well respected journalist didn't know what it meant, so yes, seriously