stevebrum

There is a bit of a difference. Newman has ridden as a PL heat leader for a couple of seasons. Bates has only just moved out of the reserve berth this season so is clearly still finding his way at both levels.

Or as it's known in the trade as 'doin a Poole'.

I did say over the 3 year period and yes you can add Steve Worrall to that list also.

Don't forget to mention that it's been stated many times he has been the outstanding EDR of the past 3 years. Dispute it if you will. So his PL average is now irrelevant for next season.

Likewise heard the same rumour from reliable source. Can't fault the lad for going where the money is just thought the challenge of the PL would have given him a better challenge. Just goes to prove that by his EL showings he could quite easily be a heat leader at that level. Just wonder what his average would be if he chooses that route next year??

I'd argue that the EDR has assisted in that progress. Extra racing equals more natural progress.

And the story first covered in speedway star dated 8th October. Not disputing if SGP covered the story as they clearly did.

For the past 3 seasons I would say he has been the outstanding EDR rider and has beaten quality riders from the opening season. But has he improved?? In 3 years minimal at best. His PL average has barely changed and in fact gone backwards which if you look at the bigger picture it's difficult to argue he has massively improved. Riders who definetly have tho I'd say ... Steve Worrall - was a struggling PL reserve/ NL standard at best 4 years ago then had a break thru year and has kicked on since overtaking his brother who was a PL heat leader at the time and threatening an EL breakthrough also. Since the draft he has gone from strength to strength and has broken out the reserve berth for a large portion of this season. Jason Garrity - deemed himself to good to be an EDR and stayed in the 1-5 albeit due to poor performing reserves but can still be considered a success and a route the likes of Ellis, Worrall, Newman should follow. Has established himself as a true PL heat leader. Paul Starke - since his selection for Poole last year he too has stepped up in performance. Was excellent back up to Kyle and made big improvements in the PL too. He has Continued that level this season establishing himself in the PL whilst has the higher EDR average over the much more experienced Auty. Adam Ellis - why he hadn't concentrated on PL instead of NL is baffling but has been an equal to Kyle in reserve for Poole and actually finishes the season with a higher EDR average. Even more amazing considering he only has NL racing as back up. Josh Bates - has improved year on year and backed up by a much improved season in the PL by establishing himself as a main team PL rider. James Sarjeant - has improved from last season to this more from PL perspective. Lewis Rose - slight improvement and has stepped out the shadow of Kerr. Max Clegg - improvement year on year and this must be his best year in the sport. Took a while to get going in the EL but had some outstanding moments. The rest haven't really kicked on. Howarth has been hit and miss and hasn't really improved that much other than an improved season in the PL. Wright has been steady without much improvement either way. Kerr has done well to come back from injury so not expecting to do too much. Auty has been a disappointment whilst Nelsien has stayed similar level. Kyle would easily be the best of the rest.

Wrong. It was in speedway star 2 weeks ago. It was made at least 2 weeks ago.

Kyle's EDR average won't be one of the lower averages which is not surprising. That's the best way to judge their abilities now. Their PL averages are now redundant. Hopefully the EDR's will stay, either one reserve or both. So long as they come up with a fair way of assessing their averages as converting PL averages is no longer a valid way for the reserves. Ellis who has no PL averages has already proved he can hold his own in the EL. So he couldn't possibly be assessed as a 3 because that would be completely barking.

His form for Poole in the easy reserve berth has always been better than his PL form. Time for those established EDR riders to start using their EL averages or at least some conversion of them.

But do we know if he was asked to ride PL? I hear that he was happy with EL and NL. I'm sure his dad would confirm either way. Think someone has made a mistake. Cook is an established EL heat leader, they haven't used his PL averages for a while now.

You missed something. He never retired. He is looking to ride again in 2017.

so were GP and Polish and Swedish EL riders always assessed as an 8 until mysteriously and conveniently until the news was released that Lindback AND all other similar standard riders would come in on a 7. If one of the 'it's always been done' can be changed then there is no certainty the PL averages will continue to be used as a way of establish their EL average. About time too. If he stays on that ridiculously low PL average then of course he will be a ringer, no different to Woffy's established average. Sense should be seen that with 3 years of EDR experience and averages to use its time to regrade those with those established EDR averages or take their actual EDR averages into account for next season.

nobody knows that yet. They have established EDR averages they can use no need to use PL averages. Newman on his Pl average would be classed as a ringer.

Agreed, without question.

but sacked from 3, yes 3 other teams. you clearly didn't read the post properly. I was discussing the previous bench mark set for new or reassessed riders to the EL,it has no relevance to current averages because that has been replaced by the new bench mark of 7. Seems the precedent has been set now. Ellis without question or hesitation. 3 times sacked for not being bothered tells it's own story. Only 1 poor season.

He also missed a meeting to celebrate in Poland. If he missed as many meetings for Poole as he did for Coventry he would be sacked, guaranteed.

You would seriously pick KK who regularly misses meetings in the UK over a rider fully committed to Poole and the UK?? Sometimes you get what you deserve.

It's probably the same reason people were banging on about Woffy coming back on his 'real' average. If Woffy was a ringer as you liked to call him then so would Milik also be a ringer. no doubt you will now say it's different . It won't be.

If we were still using the previous method of assessments (GP rider or swedish or Polish 1st teamers) then both Lindback and Madsen would be an 8 so what's the sudden difference . How often has Lindback qualified for the GP without being wildcarded? Emil isn't a GP rider so is Lindback better than him too? ? We know not all the best riders are in the GP. Madsen could quite easily have been wildcarded if his face fitted at the time. Either way he is still a world class rider.

Depends what you class as 'his level'. Madsen holds down a regular spot abroad and if he was new to the UK (ala Lindback he would be effectively ) I'd say he would be reassessed the same. He is now a world class rider but wasn't when he was last here.

depends what you class as 'fair'. Either all riders can come back on their last true average or make assessment for ALL that miss a season. fairness and clarity for all. anyway hasn't the precedent been set with those missing now set as a 7. Milik and Madsen are similar level to Lindback. It doesn't have to be anything. It's what suits the BSPA as per usual.

So you admit that Woffy was on a correct average then and wasn't a 'ringer' I take it? Absolutely. So long as it's spread fair across all teams and riders then no one can complain.

Likewise you would know bringing in a rider on a ridiculously low average like Milik is is also a ringer.The late season rule change has made it all clear anyway. All riders missing a season in the EL or new to it get re-assessed 6.5 or 7.just like Lindback was. So which one is right?? If Milik is right all this talk of Woffy being on a wrong average then is complete nonsense. Edited for duplicate post.