stevebrum

so were GP and Polish and Swedish EL riders always assessed as an 8 until mysteriously and conveniently until the news was released that Lindback AND all other similar standard riders would come in on a 7. If one of the 'it's always been done' can be changed then there is no certainty the PL averages will continue to be used as a way of establish their EL average. About time too. If he stays on that ridiculously low PL average then of course he will be a ringer, no different to Woffy's established average. Sense should be seen that with 3 years of EDR experience and averages to use its time to regrade those with those established EDR averages or take their actual EDR averages into account for next season.

nobody knows that yet. They have established EDR averages they can use no need to use PL averages. Newman on his Pl average would be classed as a ringer.

Agreed, without question.

but sacked from 3, yes 3 other teams. you clearly didn't read the post properly. I was discussing the previous bench mark set for new or reassessed riders to the EL,it has no relevance to current averages because that has been replaced by the new bench mark of 7. Seems the precedent has been set now. Ellis without question or hesitation. 3 times sacked for not being bothered tells it's own story. Only 1 poor season.

He also missed a meeting to celebrate in Poland. If he missed as many meetings for Poole as he did for Coventry he would be sacked, guaranteed.

You would seriously pick KK who regularly misses meetings in the UK over a rider fully committed to Poole and the UK?? Sometimes you get what you deserve.

It's probably the same reason people were banging on about Woffy coming back on his 'real' average. If Woffy was a ringer as you liked to call him then so would Milik also be a ringer. no doubt you will now say it's different . It won't be.

If we were still using the previous method of assessments (GP rider or swedish or Polish 1st teamers) then both Lindback and Madsen would be an 8 so what's the sudden difference . How often has Lindback qualified for the GP without being wildcarded? Emil isn't a GP rider so is Lindback better than him too? ? We know not all the best riders are in the GP. Madsen could quite easily have been wildcarded if his face fitted at the time. Either way he is still a world class rider.

Depends what you class as 'his level'. Madsen holds down a regular spot abroad and if he was new to the UK (ala Lindback he would be effectively ) I'd say he would be reassessed the same. He is now a world class rider but wasn't when he was last here.

depends what you class as 'fair'. Either all riders can come back on their last true average or make assessment for ALL that miss a season. fairness and clarity for all. anyway hasn't the precedent been set with those missing now set as a 7. Milik and Madsen are similar level to Lindback. It doesn't have to be anything. It's what suits the BSPA as per usual.

So you admit that Woffy was on a correct average then and wasn't a 'ringer' I take it? Absolutely. So long as it's spread fair across all teams and riders then no one can complain.

Likewise you would know bringing in a rider on a ridiculously low average like Milik is is also a ringer.The late season rule change has made it all clear anyway. All riders missing a season in the EL or new to it get re-assessed 6.5 or 7.just like Lindback was. So which one is right?? If Milik is right all this talk of Woffy being on a wrong average then is complete nonsense. Edited for duplicate post.

average wouldn't apply , should be 7 like they brought in this year. Milik and THJ would be upgraded as standard set as 7. Gomolski, Milik and Cyfer won't start on those low averages. missed a year out so will need reassessing. that's assuming they keep the PL conversions. Don't need to when you have actual EL draft averages tho. we don't know the rules for 2017. reassessed average like Lindback. but not Lindback? ? Explain? ?? Wolves has won best prepared track 4 out the past 5 seasons. So hardly naff.

2. Wolves exempt as well. We know the reasons why they won't come. Not enough money Too many meetings Too many different race nights Poor prepared tracks No squads

Everyone seems to have assumed that. I certainly haven't. I think some have assumed it was Wolves that was on Harris's wish list. Bomber knows where he is going that much is sure. I won't lose sleep either way who he signs for other than as an honest rider I'd be happy if he did sign for us. Fair point and very valid. However Masters has been a slow burner and could have possibly achieved more if he didn't have time out with visa issues. I'd say there is little between them tho.

so we carry on with the usual make it up as you go along rubbish then! He would be a huge gamble if he did. His commitment to the UK has been poor and has failed to produce anything like he foreign abilities. Seems to have gone backwards for the past few seasons.

Of course fairness would be great for all. But name me a sport where no one or few teams don't dominate ?All this talk of 'ringers', 'rigging' and 'ridiculously low averages' - how on earth do you implement something like that fairly? ? Nearly impossible. If all riders should be given clearer and fair averages then what is the point of even having averages then? What is different about bringing the world champion into the side (at the start of the season) on his real average and then drop 2 points off it AS WORLD CHAMPION to bringing him back a year and a half later on that low average AS WORLD CHAMPION? ? If one is wrong then both are wrong. As for the Woffy situation. You aren't the first one to call out his 'ridiculously low average'. But how fair was it for Wolves who had to endure that ridiculously low level of performance for the WHOLE of 2014?? I notice nobody called foul play at the time or attempting to cheat for the future. So Wolves suffered a whole season yet it would be 'fair' to have to have his REAL average altered because it isn't fair to other teams??? Not fair at all. Wolves had to suffer 2 seasons because the world champion rode poor and achieved a poor average because of it. So its only fitting the team who suffered that year was able to take advantage of it. The travesty would have been Woffy racing for the Aces, Poole, Lakeside or Swindon and them getting an unjust advantage. If we are going to do things 'fairly' then any rider missing a season out of the EL must be re-assessed and preferably any rider of GP standard or Polish and Swedish top flight team places should have one agreed average that isn't altered to suit any one club. As far as PL riders moving up, do we need a new way of assessing their abilities and yet again why aren't their current PL averages the fairest way of assessing their convertion?

Anders Thomsen if on his PL average would be a good bet.

Depends how you judge it. Fricke has done really well in the Swedish and Polish leagues whilst Masters is above him in the EL even tho marginally 7.18 to 7.08 plus Masters did a decent job for Oz in the WTC. Fricke is younger so may be the better longer term prospect but it wouldn't surprise me if Masters achieves more either. Fricke has added just under a point to his starting average (6.16) whilst Masters started lower 5.60 and ended higher in the EL. Masters for me.

I didn't think national league teams could have assets??

Not disagreeing with you entirely but having watched racing at all levels and many tracks Wolves still offer decent racing.

A poster on here has already confirmed they heard, assuming you aren't prepared them a liar? Heard in the stands. Time to move this on as it's been debated to death.At least one fan heard it and whether Tai heard it is not confirmed.

I agree, but you didn't see many saying that his signing was a good move. A slow burner like Doyle IMHO.

What do you want, a hand written apology signed in blood? I have already said if Richie didn't swear as I've already stated then obviously I retract that statement (I assume you afford me the same respect you gave Woffy for removing his remark? ?). you keep on dragging up that you are trying to prove me wrong when I've already accepted that. You yourself in your previous statement have confirmed that one person heard the offending comment , so we can agree it was said then I guess. No idea what 'smug attitude' you refer to, I have already stated that I was more than likely wrong in not hearing the interview correctly and have now agreed the remark about Richie was not warranted. So I guess we can wrap it up. so no Gordon Bennett wasn't right. Sometimes you have to be the bigger man to accept sometimes you have got something wrong. I have no issue with that. No further comment is required unless you would like to accept that I was wrong of course.

Don't forget the master stroke of bringing Masters in when some I recall thought he would struggle at EL level. Huge signing.