mikebv

It is ludicrous isn't it? Winning can actually close a club down.. And one of the reasons is that the club doesn't get the chance to make more of its success financially due to the ridiculous fixture list... Winning three titles is a fantastic achievement but doing it all in a fortnight costs the fans a fortune, the clubs a fortune and has finals ran in the worst weather month of the season meaning fans could end up picking and choosing which final to attend!! Two of the Comps start months and months earlier in the season so surely it would be more beneficial for clubs to spread out that success across the season..? Having a trophy to be won in say June, one in August, and one in October would keep the interest going through the whole season and mean if one club dominates they get the chance to maximise each final to deliver the best returns, and if three separate clubs win the trophies it shares the opportunity to have 'bumper crowds' across the league... So many simple easy to do improvements can be made to this sport, many not needing any money spent, it just doesn't seem they can see them..

No plan can ever work without an independent body/person controlling it with a 100% mandate from all concerned to make abiding decisions.. A major issue the sport has is that rules change so quickly, and are manipulated continuously, simply because they can be changed on a whim. No business can sustain success with an operating model that so constantly moves all over the place on an adhoc basis. Particularly when those making the adhoc changes have a vested interest in the outcome.. Guests are allowed because they always have been. Too easy to keep doing the same old, same old. Fixed race nights reduced them but absolutely 'loads' we're still used, (and as we saw with the fixture changes, are now an integral part of the operating model), so it could have been regarded as a ' bit better'.. Similar to being sat at the very back of a plane as it crashes into a mountain I would suggest... A 'bit better' but it won't really be of any use in the grand scheme of things.... If you cannot run any sport properly then your probably best not doing it at all. And a team sport even more so given the emotional attachment you need from your fanbase.. But if you do decide to run a team sport, and instead of running it properly you choose a haphazard set of rules to follow, which destroys the very credibility of the sport, then never be surprised you struggle to get people to follow you... The sport needs a root and branch investigation into it to form a 'proper plan of action'. Done on a national level by people with no vested interest in the sport. And then ran by an independent body to maintain discipline, consistency and integrity... The same way as all 'proper' sports are ran..

I on the other hand can imagine many people saying I am not going because of guest riders.... In fact I would suggest many, many thousand no longer go because they feel "what's the point"? Who cares who wins titles in Britain? None have any kudos the way they are delivered. The reason why there is no alternative to guests is because there is now a fundamental need for the teams to keep costs down by sharing riders, rather than sign cover for absences, and a need for riders to earn as much money as they can by taking as many rides as they can, regardless of what colours they ride in... If Poland ever went down the same operating model route as the BSPA uses, and ran leagues devoid of credibility then I can guarantee that they too would have a sport on its arse.... No big money from TV, no national media coverage, no big company sponsorships and no big attendances would be the ultimate result they would deliver.. Just like we have over here..

I wonder if at any stage of reviewing why attendances are not hitting the required amount to cover costs have the Glasgow Promoters ever reflected on how much the Mickey Mouse way the sport is ran effects them? One of their riders (Chris Harris) won a Premiership medal riding for Poole and one week later a Cup Winners medal riding for Somerset.. I would suggest they try and influence the stopping of such nonsense and then try and raise awareness and support for their business... You can be as positive as you want in engaging locals to help... When the product you are selling is so inherently flawed you will never have a chance of success..

Agree 100% Ian, but I now believe that as it is 'so bleedin' obvious' that what we have have now doesn't work, the Promoters must be acutely aware of all the issues they have, but simply haven't got either the vision, capabilty or finance to ever break out of that self inflicted continous vicious cycle of lack of credibilty of product, meaning lower income is achieved which cannot then cover annually higher uncontrolled costs.. Unless, as you say, something totally radical takes place... I just don't think they have that desire to try and undo all that has been done as it would be a huge undertaking and possibly well beyond their particular skill set... I personally dont think we will ever see the sport ran 'properly' again. (as a team sport), in this country, and what we have now ie lots of weekly cobbled together nonsense, will be the only way forward. (As surely if they felt it needed fixing they would have by now such are the glaring issues)... Which is a shame, as the core product on offer can be truly great... Anyway, here's hoping I am wrong and someone has the balls and comes forward to take the sport over here by the scruff of the neck, see its huge potential (99.9% of the population don't go), and has real vision, drive and desire to deliver a 'brave' new dawn... I will write a letter to Santa as a 'back up plan' though, (just in case)....

Definitely in League racing.... Its Mickey Mouse enough as it is without any more contrived nonsense... Using handicap racing in an individual event to add a bit of spice though then fine...

The actual racing itself is, for me, as good as I have watched.. (48 years a fan) Maybe not lots of passing (was there really ever?), but most races are at least competitive from front to back as the riders are mostly of a reasonably similar standard. (Out of their depth 'Wobblers' are now pretty much a thing of the past).. So, the 'core product' passes the test.. Sadly. All the rest of the 'show' completely undermines it.... From the ridiculously allowed contrived septets riding against other contrived septets almost nightly, through to an overall entertainment package that belongs in 'The Wheel Tappers and Shunters Working Men's Club' (look it up or ask your grandad). The sport (in Britian) is strangling itself... Let's be honest, NONE of the three leagues have any credibility therefore what is the point of running the sport as a Team Sport? Simply, you can never hope to engage your local potential customers to buy into 'their team' when invariably it changes each week and no longer is 'their team'. So why still run the sport that way? You will have very little chance of ever being successful at the turnstiles.. So. Maybe now it's time to run less meetings, with more races per meeting. At weekends... Maybe run individual competitions over three days at the same track Friday, Saturday and Sunday two or three times a season? Different Comps from kids level through to different graded levels from NL standard up to 'expert'?. Friday and Saturday being qualifiers to the main event on Sunday... Or, if you want to cling on to a team Speedway concept, run a one off National Comp in one venue the same way over three days. Bringing maybe three riders per team in a best pairs type competition.... What is happening simply isn't working so do something different.... And several well promoted, well planned, sensibly priced, well sponsored financially, Festivals Of Speedway' around the Country, all rode in front of decent crowds of several thousand rather than 'one man and his dog', has to be more positive for the sport in terms of awareness and positive branding than the, quite frankly, complete nonsense, that is currently getting served up and masquerading as a bona fide sporting competition... There are many many more thousands of ex fans of domestic speedway who attend Cardiff I would suggest, than the total amount of fans who do attend domestic speedway each week.... And there are many many more thousands than that who 'used to go' but no longer attend speedway at all.. Therefore, there is still a big market out there if it can be persuaded to come back... The racing itself can be fantastic, so Speedway in Britain needs to just find a way of doing it justice.. And the current way of doing it won't manage to do that.. Not a chance...

Common Sense comments.. However, I do really believe that what is done now cannot be undone.. We have gone too far and it is not possible to get the Sport where it needs be in this country.. I am convinced the Promoters know full well the stand out reasons for the Sport's ever hastening demise (there has never been so much feedback available), but they simply havent the resource, or possibly the capability too, to sort the self inflicted mess out.. We all know that there is huge potential in the Sport as many of us just on here used to go regularly, and around the country I would suggest EVERY track has at least 2000 people living locally who no longer go but used to go and keep a passing interest in the local Speedway team.. It just appears that Promoters feel there is zero chance of enticing them back so no point in trying.. A shame, but it is what it is..

Congratulations Barry... Its obvious from the comments on here from those who attend your meetings that you and the team constantly strive to exceed your customer's expectations.... I presume as an NL Promoter you won't be at the AGM? A shame if so, as your clearly driven customer focus could do with being shared around your fellow 'Custodians of the Sport'.. I see you are also not resting on your laurels and pro actively seeking feedback as to how you could improve even further, through modern social media outlets? Maybe if you could attend the AGM you could have shared that idea with others, some of whom seem to struggle with the concept of running a business through listening to their customer's comments on what they like/dislike... Although maybe being more realistic, you would possibly have had to lead them out on a 'quest for fire' first..! One small step at a time/Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc etc... Well done and best of luck for next year too...

I would suggest they are very fortunate to be getting even the same money considering most tracks will have seen a big reduction in fan base during this time... If riders are getting the same money, given the fan base drop, it can only be down to the inflation busting admission cost increases dealt to those who still do attend... That wonderful vicious circle British Speedway has put itself in... ie Attendances drop due to ridiculous operating model being followed. So they put up the price of admission to those who still attend. Meaning attendances then drop further, so they put up the price of admission again to those who still attend. Meaning attendances then drop further so they put up the price of admission again to those etc etc etc... Any business person with even a shred of acumen would always find a way of reducing their costs before taking the decision to pass on cost increases to their customers through increased prices.. My company has paid out an extra 10% in payroll over the past 18 months to meet its legal obligations on earnings. I didn't suddenly get an extra 10% of customers to pay for it.... Therefore costs had to be reduced elsewhere in the business and a reduction in workforce achieved through a review of its operating model to deliver better productivity.... I am amazed that Speedway still pays out 14 salaries per meeting when it cannot afford to do so, yet never changes the team number or the amount of heats they pay out for.. I am even more amazed that they put out big money to GP stars who put hardly one person on the gate. The sport is down to the die hards now who will go anyway and no disrespect to any rider, but long gone are the days of 'real Stars' like Collins, Mauger, Olsen, Penhall etc who would tangibly put extra 'bums on seats' when they visited your home track.. Hope the AGM goes well. I presume the first thing on the agenda will be how much admissions costs will increase by this year...? Thats as long as they don't have to discuss first up which biscuits to have. Let's hope that's been settled well in advance of the meeting...

My thoughts are what you say is 100% correct... And thousands and thousands of ex fans would read your comments and agree also... Incredible that the Promoters don't see the obvious issues, and continue to ignore feedback from the many who used to go... Makes you wonder how many gaps have to appear on the terraces before they finally cotton on..

If Speedway was a 'proper team sport' with traditional rivalries, a tribal following, and bona fide Championships which had real kudos in winning, then I would suggest any night would be a possibility.. The sad fact it it hasn't got any of these three key ingredients to encourage fans to invest that so important emotional loyalty to 'their team'.... Therefore, they would be better just focusing on the on track entertainment value of Speedway, ie four riders riding around an oval track at high speed with no brakes.. And do it when a crowd can be enticed to come... Not when it just suits some of the competitors the most...

Could it really be any worse? There are loads of breaks in fixture lists now.. British Speedway cannot run itself like 'proper team sports', we know that, so you might as well run the constantly contrived meetings they put out, with random septets, at weekend when more of the populace can get there... Running on Fixed Nights still didn't deliver any 'bona fide' Championships at any of the three levels, so it really doesn't matter who wins the 'titles'... When 'set in stone' fixtures get changed at a moments notice so there are plenty of 'guests' to be shared around you know the game is pretty much up.. Fixed Race Nights were always doomed from the very outset when Monday/Thursday became Monday/Wednesday/Thursday so you might as well let teams ride whenever they want, using whoever they can.. It can't be any worse and surely can only be a financial improvement..?

Maybe Dan's meetings could be planned in the 20 odd Saturdays over the six months or so that he is available? Or run meetings on Fridays and Sundays when he isn't available Saturday? Speedway clubs run on 'off nights' now so no new process to accommodate riders with other priorities, but the problem is that these nights are invariably mid week and poor crowd pullers... Bottom line is British Speedway tracks need to look after No1... And that means more than any debate about standard of riders, running when they can attract their best crowds.... If riders ambitions lie elsewhere and don't marry up with British Speedways needs then that is unfortunate but British Speedway needs to give itself a chance...

Spot on... Sign up 100% to ride over here.... Or dont. ... The Promoters will need to play their part by putting together a fixture list early enough, and sticking to it obviously... I know, I know, I am laughing as I type...

As has been proved again this year, there will be loads of guests regardless of using fixed nights or not... Which means there will still be loads of contrived nonsense meetings.... Therefore, you might as well run this nonsense on nights when the majority of the population enjoy their leisure time, ie at weekends... Those who still go are obviously not bothered about the lack of any credibility in what they are watching, so will turn up anyway, so run at weekends when you may get an odd ex fan or two (or heaven forbid a newbie), deciding occasionally to make Speedway their weekend night out.... We have dozens and dozens of meetings made up of contrived septets, even with FRN, on nights which the entertainment sector regard as the worst ones in the week to attract custom, therefore... Run dozens and dozens of meetings made up of contrived septets, on nights which the entertainment sector regard as their best ones in the week to attract custom... Nothing to lose surely? So no risk, the die hards will always be there, the rest of the population will have more of a chance to go....

Or allow guest fans? Or just simply stick to asking those who still go to "Bring a Friend"...

Too many full time riders..... Not enough full time fans....

All sentiments are correct, however it's too far gone for me.. British Speedway is now just a conduit for riders to earn money, hence so many guest appearances are made and doubling up is rife.. And to be fair. Why spend 20k on machinery if you are only going to earn £1500 a night 30 times a season?. Especially given the inherent risks in the way that money is made. Cannot get itself out of the hole it has put itself in so more of the same is the only way forward. It's in that perpetual (self created) vicious circle.. ie. Not enough fans attend due to the lack of credibility of so many meetings, which then prevents clubs being able to pay riders the type of money that would allow them to ride for one team only. (Or possibly let the clubs afford to run squads).. So Riders riding for more than one team, and guesting all over the place to earn the crust they need, leads to even less credibility, impacting even more meetings, and unsurprisingly, even less fans attending them.. Not sure without being completely radical that they can actually change this race to the bottom.. Or indeed if they even have the will never mind the capability to do it..

It won't change now... It can't... That horse has well and truly bolted... Riders it seems need to ride 60 to 80 meetings a year over here to make their money... Even one 'big league' would only deliver around 40 to 50 with Cups, Shields, Play Offs etc.. Guest slots I presume form a significant part of their income and as we have seen by the way the Friday fixtures were decimated, guests are now an integral part of the British Speedway operating model and part of the business plan.. Team Speedway is all but a misnomer in the UK.. The sport itself can be great though so maybe time to just run it on an individual basis with Promoters buying up licenses to run as many times a year as they want or can negotiate with the landlord... Eg Ten meetings at the NSS, ran at weekends and bank holidays, well promoted and backed with decent prize money must deliver a good crowd surely? Ten 'proper' meetings with 3000 in attendance at an 'Event' would do the Sports reputation far more lasting good than running 20 meetings with almost zero credibility in front of circa 1500 each time... Not quite time maybe to nail that lid down on the Team Speedway coffin but getting pretty close I would suggest..

The whole culture is different because the Sport has credibility.... If Poland ran their Leagues in such a 'Mickey Mouse' fashion as British Speedway does then simply they wouldn't enjoy anywhere near the same coverage... Part of the Polish success story (and the success story of any team sport at whatever level) is that 'tribal loyalty' that is built up through the identity of their teams... Polish fans simply wouldn't stand for the No1 rider of their fiercest rivals wearing their colours and representing them on an adhoc basis... As it fundamentally goes against what team sport should be... I remember how hard it was for Darcy Ward to be accepted by his own ZG fans when they signed him, as they saw him as a Torun man.. In Britain in one single week you could be a Wolverhampton rider on a Monday, a Somerset rider on a Wednesday, and a Swindon rider on a Thursday and actually be the Belle Vue No1....! (Who also represents his contracted team of Glasgow on a Friday, but rides for Workington on a Saturday and Newcastle on a Sunday)... Simply nonsense... And will never generate any decent national mainstream media coverage as it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny... As it wouldn't in Poland if they ran the Sport the same way...

None of that really made much of a difference... The key things they did which drove the success of the Sport in Poland were the following... They found great success in letting riders dictate to clubs when they would be available, meaning they had to ride on nights to suit the riders earnings rather than when the spectators wished meetings to be ran... They also saw great benefit and positive feedback from the mainstream media by allowing meetings to take place with the two teams in attendance regularly being made up by any random couple of septets who happened to be available. Septets that had been cobbled together on an adhoc basis on any given evening, to wear the colours of the two clubs competing.. Another master stroke was ensuring that as many riders as possible were contracted to as many teams as possible, preferably covering (thus impacting), three leagues, which meant "guests" were in great demand, bringing that much needed lack of credibility to almost every match that takes place.. Possibly their finest idea was to produce a fixture list and then systematically dismantle it halfway during the season so plenty of "guests" can always be available. (And spectators who had booked time off work, and maybe hotels to watch their team, become disillusioned). A fixture list which had been put together in the first place with a clear plan to avoid running meetings during the warmer, dryer Summer months, and instead, cramming in as many meetings as possible towards October and November when it becomes colder and wetter. With the genius add on of running "dead rubber" League meetings to qualify for the play offs, AFTER the play offs have been completed and the League has already been won.. Add in an admission fee that has no correlation to the entertainment value on offer, but goes up by inflation busting amounts annually, allied to a year on year reduction in the overall quality of riders on show, and you surely have the perfect recipe for success.. Cannot think why the BSPA don't run something along similar lines.. Sure to be a winner...

You know it makes sense... Lavverley Jabberley.. Cash only though obviously... (In used notes).. Cushty... (Keep yer eye out fer vem developerz Rodney, scarper quick if yer see 'em)...

Agree with everything you say, however.. Not sure if it will cease to exist as it has ran pretty much the same operating model for decades and is still here. (Just).. The big difference nowadays is obviously Social Media magnifies the issues a thousand fold, hence we discuss the nonsense that so often pervades far wider than we used to years ago when we all agreed it was still nonsense but at a very local level, eg with the five or six people you were stood with at the track after finding out your No1 was in Germany to ride in a Long Track meeting tomorrow, and your opponent had four guests due to one being in the same Long Track meeting, and the others missing because this was an rearranged meeting... Same nonsense but we had already paid our money when we found out so didn't have a choice to attend or not.. Speedway hasn't cottoned on that Social Media can be a huge force for good but sadly also hasn't realised that it can also be a huge problem given 'bad news' is now 'out there' within seconds... The sad fact is the way they give out so much nonsense through their ridiculous operating model, it leaves them wide open to ridicule via the modern media, which can never be a good start from which to attract a decent following... What you got away with in the Seventies when England/GB had great teams, great riders and great coverage on mainstream written and visual media, you simply cannot get away with now... Domestic Speedway was still "a bit Mickey Mouse" back then, but what you saw on ITV on a Saturday afternoon wasn't domestic league Speedway and always had credibility (and an 'X Factor' in Peter Collins)... And domestic Speedway then flourished on the coat tails of this coverage... Yet Speedway still runs a very similar operating model domestically that it did in the Seventies.. And it still runs a similar all round entertainment package for your night out that it did in the Seventies.... But doesn't anywhere near still run a similar admission cost to what it did in the Seventies when index linked to inflation... Cease to exist? Probably not for a good while yet, but it will (and can) only meander to an ever decreasing fan base using its current model of operation. One piece of bright news is I read today that the over 60's in ten years will form over 12 million of the whole population... Maybe light at the end of the Speedway tunnel after all...

Sadly, history tells us you will be correct. (Or ran even worse)....