mikebv

Correct.. The operating and business model they run is simply not fit for purpose.. Running any business where your employees dictate to you when you can open your doors due to their need to work for many other employers can never work.. And just to throw some salt onto that particular wound, your competitors can also decide when you can open your doors if they think your opening hours effect their own business.. Utterly crackers... No one can sort that out....

Does every team have a 'supporters club'? I think it was only last year that the Aces put one together after many years of nothing... Maybe that is the issue? ie No 'supporters club' exists so no one is being nominated?

Plus this year I will see the 'superstars' riding Friday, Saturday and Sunday in the Polish League and Tuesday's every week in Sweden.. And then watch them regularly in the GP's too... All in glorious HD from the comfort of my armchair.. No 'mystique' sadly anymore.. You went to watch Collins, Mauger, Olsen, Penhall etc etc when they visited your track, as it could be the only chance you got all season to see them, apart from the Saturday highlights on World Of Sport of the big meetings...

Not just modern days riders... I know of one from well over ten years ago who always tried to end up at 5.99 as he was seen as a 'solid six pointer' in the eyes of the promoters, and "5.99 always sounded as if I could improve it!"... He always started the season well, ran around a seven plus average, reached the point where he paid the bills for his riding for the season, then would get the calculator out as the season drew to an end as "everything else is bunce"... (He had a Full time job too unlike so many today, so any Speedway 'profit' was icing on his cake).. He was never short of a team place so his system worked!! Also he got lots of guest bookings keeping his average where it was, and reckoned some were "very good earners".. About 20 years ago I had a conversation one night late in the season with a Promoter and suggested he might sign a rider who we were watching perform well. The same rider had been quoted that week in the SS as "never wanting the season to end", such was his upturn in form.. The Promoter told me he would never sign any rider based on late season form as he could never be sure if it was actually the fact that rider had improved or that the others he was racing against were lowering their averages for the following season.. If you use such a daft, easily manipulated system, based on so many variables, then you will always have riders using it to their advantage as why do 'too well' one year and miss the next through your 'success'? Far more lucrative to do 'ok' for two seasons than 'do well' for one...

How very dare you... Stockport County have had over 4000 in their place this season, and rarely drop below 3000.. And got over 7000 I think for the play offs last year... Imagine any UK Speedway team getting those crowds...?

Blimey HR, you sound like my Citeh mates explaining why the Emptihad is never full... "Road works outside McVities" is usually the main one... Or. .. "They've changed the traffic light priority fazing on Mount Rd".. Hear what your'e saying mate and I am sure 'start time' and the 'night of running' does lessen the crowd level, but I would say it prevents people from going far less than, as currently, the vast majority of the Mancunian populace not having a clue who The (World Famous) Belle Vue Aces are, and what they do... Stockport County can get 3000 - 4000 on a Tuesday night, six miles away, and we know United and City get tens of thousands any evening they play, so there is a huge appetite for 'live sport' in quite probably the No1 'sporting conurbation' in the country.. It just appears the appetite for Speedway is just not there... Sadly..

I work in Levenshulme, less than 1.5 miles away from the track.. I mention "going to Belle Vue" to my staff and their response to a man/woman is "I love going to the dogs, its a great night".. When I mention that it's to the Speedway, the usual stock answer of so many of "is that still going?" surfaces..... The World Famous BelleVue Aces? Not even famous a stones throw away... You can run on any day of the week you choose, if no one knows who you are, or indeed, what you do, then simply no one will come... The abysmal marketing of the Aces (and the sport in general), is very much linked to the poor crowds 'enjoyed'... As for congestion? Well the Aces certainly seem to do their bit to ease it.. Never any congestion around Kirky Lane around 7.15pm on Monday and Wednesday's.

Kids are simply not interested in Speedway because they have far more things nowadays to keep them interested and get their 'kicks'.. And, just maybe, what we considered 'exciting and adrenalin fuelled' is to the average teenager (who goes on 'killing sprees' and 'saves the world' from the comfort of their bedrooms every night), not anywhere near as exciting or adrenalin fuelled to them.... What does amaze me is why clubs charge school age teenagers to get in.. They don't go now so it would be zero loss letting them in for nothing, and you would at least (for those who own the food outlets) sell more Coke and Burgers. Teenagers also 'hunt in packs', so getting your teenager to go with you on their own is sometimes akin to removing blood from a stone.. Letting them in for free would mean they and their mates can all attend together to 'hang out', well away from the 'old man'.. Whether any of them transfer to become paying customers further down the line is the big unknown, however one thing is for sure... You will have far more chance of getting them interested later in life if they have sampled the experience several times.. And being 'sheep' the more that attend , the more that will follow.. And if nothing else, it would make the crowds look bigger, which can only reflect the sport positively, and lower the average age of the crowd demographic considerably...

That's very true.. But sadly the very fact that they could help their rival's cause is a huge detriment to the Sports desire to ever being taken seriously as a "proper sport' by the wider mainstream media.. Still, as RG says, they are needed...

Why would anyone who supports another club in the Premiership bet against you? I as a BV fan could agree to your £50 wager then watch (completely broken), as 'my' riders, several times during the season help your team qualify for the Play Offs (at their own teams' expense), by guesting for you...

Spot on.. A shortage of riders? Then create less team places.. It isn't difficult to change supply and demand dynamics.. I would have gone as far as running with five man teams for this year to turn the 'tanker' around, and try and get 12 teams involved.. Home and Away twice (44 matches, 22 at Home).. At a Championship level standard (from last year)) but removing one heat leader and one second string from last seasons teams.. With One reserve, at least, a two point Brit 'junior'.. The rest of the teams could have run at NL level.. Plenty of replacements generated for injuries and loss of form, just like 'proper' sports have. (Without rivals sharing competitors)! £5k Max per team per night salary cap... Maybe no superstars but credibility and affordable?

Stop it! Stop it now!... We will have none of that common sense talk on here... The BSPA also pay set rates out for their shared events.. Again, why are those rates OK to be paid then but that rate times several fold is paid for a League meeting? A strange conundrum... One day the rider is worth 'x', the next the same rider is worth 'y'... For doing the same thing under the same organisation..

The benefit of hindsight? Really? Do you really need hindsight to see that spending vast amounts more than you are bringing in, and racing on nights dictated to by your employees, rather than for the benefit of your customers, is anything other than a ludicrous business plan?.. Do you really need hindsight to see that trying to run a bona fide Sporting Championship, whilst sharing competitors with your rivals on an adhoc basis, is laughable and brings zero credibility to the very competition you are spending ridiculous sums trying to win? Do you really need hindsight to see that you have, annually, lost thousands of fans due to your operating model and business plan and replaced them with very, very few new fans? I would suggest anyone who didn't spot the current shambles being the obvious conclusion of their actions, must have very, very poor vision indeed, and not having hindsight is the least of their worries...

And as RG alluded to in the SS, 'guest riding' is a nice earner for the riders which helps fund their riding, hence they are here to stay.. Their team might only have 30 or so meetings but riders can ride many, many more times if they have the 'right average' .... (and maintain it)...

2.5 million people live in the Grt Mcr conurbation... All within 45 mins drive... The track has fantastic motorway links, ie straight off the motorway and onto an dual carriageway/A road. Drive five mins and you are there.. Mcr City Centre is five mins away by bus. Many routes run past it.... Its less than five mins by taxi and train, (the station is five mins walk away)... Belle Vue have a 100% monopoly as there isn't another track within 30 plus miles... To get less than 0.1% of Manchester to attend isn't too positive a measure for those who run it I would suggest..

Go back twenty five years or so and there were considerably more attending the dog bowl on a Friday night than attend the NSS currently on Mondays.. .. Sadly I would say the NSS is simply fifteen to twenty years too late to be successful... The 'lost generation' of fans show very little signs of coming back and 'newbies' are very much conspicuous by their absence... A shame for the sport in general not just for the Aces..

Team racing might be the lifeblood Phil, but it simply doesn't work in this country.. Keep doing the same thing and the ever decreasing circle will eventually disappear.. The fans who have deserted the sport in their tens of thousands over the past 20 years are testament to team speedway 'not working'... To run a team sport you 100% need the emotional attachment from your fans to 'their team'... Yet (British) Speedway actually allows ringers to be brought it to replace riders virtually every week of the season somewhere... (And the way some fans accept guests makes you think that Speedway is the only team sport that gets injuries)! Let's face it, winning with guests gives you zero satisfaction. . And losing against a team of guest track specialists pees you off.. Why bother therefore putting in your emotional loyalty to a team when it's often nothing more than a random collection of riders, riding for that night under whatever flag of convenience has offered them the rides..? And ultimately, why bother then attending such contrived, artificially put together 'league speedway'? Who really cares who wins that particular night or indeed at the end of season given the contrived way any team gets to the play off? And if that is your starting point, god help anyone trying to make a success of it.. Many on here now say they attend simply to watch the spectacle of four riders racing around a track, and ignore all the nonsense that surrounds such a simple concept.. And for me, the raw material product is still worth watching.. Hence I will attend the SON and Cardiff this year.. The spectacle does still have a crowd pulling value without any shadow of doubt.. Just not (in this country) built around a team concept... (Unless of course very radical decisions are made, which given the track record of those in charge, would seem very, very unlikely)...

Team Speedway in Britain simply cannot work anymore.. Not enough riders to fill team spaces means guests and doubling up, which smashes any credibility of the competitions.. As a team sport, inevitably promoters 'want to win' , no matter the 100% lack of any kudos in winning a domestic speedway competition, a lack of kudos driven by their very own operating model, (couldn't make it up could you?).. Therefore, to win, they need the best riders they can get, riders who then are expected to have good equipment, good equipment that costs them a lot of money, a lot of money that promoters then have to pay out to the riders so they can pay for their good equipment and make a profit to live off.. And all the while bored, disillusioned and disinterested fans leave the sport each year whilst such nonsense goes on annually... For me, the racing is as good, bad and indifferent as it ever was, however run competitions with genuine credibility and you will still attract crowds in this country.. Less meetings, ran at individual level, with entrepreneurs hiring tracks to do one off 'weekend specials' will still get decent crowds I would think... A BSB Superbikes type offering, lots of different age and capability level events held over one or even two days.. Team Speedway, ran midweek, with two guests per team, and rider replacement being used for another two riders, as all the missing six riders need to be 'elsewhere' that evening, simply will never, ever work... Because it can't. ..

Reading the RG comments you couldn't help but get the impression of someone 'stating the bleedin' obvious'! It's almost like a summary of the past five to ten years on here!! However you then read comments around the fact that 'all promoters now realise what needs to be done' and you then think (amazingly), that maybe there have been some promoters over the past five to ten years who must have thought it was all going 'OK'! Maybe there now is a true realism of actually where the sport currently sits amongst the rest of the sports in Britiain and realistic plans will be put in place going forward? But you then read comments around guests for example, where they get dismissed as an almost 'inevitably', without even a thought to eradicate something that destroys any credibility the sport has, and you think that maybe after all that the reality will be more of 'same old, same old'.. He did mention being in the 'last chance saloon' so hopefully there is some real focus as a collective now... My doubt to be honest though is that as they are the ones who have led the sport to its current position (whilst blindly not seeing the obvious and inevitable conclusion that such a ridiculous operating and business model would bring), then, are they really the ones capable of sorting it all out? I hope so, but do have my doubts..

Loads could be done... Sadly it seems it never is... Almost like they have given up and have decided that attracting new fans, or lapsed fans back, is a bridge too far, and that cutting costs and hoping to maintain the 'die hards' is the way forward.. For a Sport that has a 100% monopoly not just in the town/city they are in, but at least for circa 30 miles around it too, it is amazing more isn't done to get the message out locally.. 60 million people live in Britain. About 25000 at best attend Speedway each week.. What an opportunity to improve that equation, given that you are the 'only show' in so many places countrywide..

The difference now though BW is that Wolves would run with three or four guests (all small track ringers) and RR for their missing riders rather than do what they did in 93 and have to reshuffle their team through signings... Meaning the same 'play off' nowadays would be another contrived farce.. Henka guested that night and therefore it could be argued that this was 'contrived', but for me as his presence had no bearing on his own team's chances of the League it seemed 'fair enough'... Maybe calling him a 'short term loan' signing would have been more professional than calling him a 'guest', however him being there (on a very good incentive too I believe) meant two very even teams on display... When Speedway is done that well you do have to wonder why they don't try and do it more often..

On the way out one particularly peed off/slapped arse Wolves fan who has been gobbing off all night after virtually every heat when victory had seemed a formality, said something of the sort of "Yowve unli wun it boi wun point, an if weed av ad Sammoi yowd err not wun it"!!.. We replied laughing.. "Yeh!, we know!!!" As we walked past we then asked the people running the 'megastore' if they had any 'Wolves 93 Champions' car stickers... They were not very friendly in reply..... Although that could have been down to the big stack of brown boxes piled up behind them.... Boxes full of what we will never know...! What a night, truly it compares for me with United winning the title in 93 after 26 years, and Barca 99... Pity you couldn't bottle it and produce the same crowds and drama today..

An incredible night in 93... Seem to remember the Aces were eight points down with three races left... A 5-0 changed the meeting... One of the Wolves riders got help off a member of the track staff when he fell off and remounted...(Wainwright rings a distant bell)? And after the race he was excluded... That point made all the difference.. Huge crowd, and a great atmosphere...

Not sure how it will be more competitive... 80% of the riders will be Championship riders so it will be as similarly competitive as it would be in the Championship surely? And a rider like Doyle, who is head and shoulders better than all but a few Championship riders, could make it even less competitive..

Wasn't it something like £150k to £200k to host a GP? If so. A 9000 crowd would need a minimum £30 adult entry I would think to hire the stadium, build the temp structures needed, and pay the VAT.. Not sure any room for concessions at these numbers either... Maybe the GP costs have dropped though? At circa £100k I would think it would be doable... Maybe BSI would want to avoid another GP in Britain though, as they may feel it could have a possible impact to Cardiff where I think I am correct in saying they promote and hold the rights for..?