Workington 2025

[truthsayer]

3 minutes ago, IainB said:

Not so sure about that, Speedway is all about the riders and the more interaction they have with the fans the better... Look at F1, packing stands out around most of the world, it's certainly not because of the racing, it's seen an uptick in crowds since the Drive to Survive series because fans have got to see the drivers and all of the bts footage and a narrative that has been built up around them, rivalries etc, not to mention you don't see Lando Norris driving for McLaren for the season and occasionally turning out for Ferrari.

A few questions, what is the biggest rider rivalry in British Speedway at the moment? Who is the most controversial character? What do we know about these riders? The rider with perhaps the biggest following and puts bums on seats is maybe Chris Harris (Now the Emil Sayfutdinov effect has worn off a bit) and he's become a bit of a running in joke within the sport for the number of (diminishing) clubs he rides for. These riders need to connect with the crowd and victory laps and soaking up the crowd applause... or winding them up is a start. 

On one hand I don't disagree with you, but these things are so far down the list as to be irrelevant.

The presentation of the sport is stuck in the 1970s, it needs to be addressed, but the utter lack of riders and facilities are what will be the death of speedway. That's far more important than connecting to the pitiful 'crowds' the sport has.

Comparing British league speedway to Formula One is also completely irrelevant. As a sport, it should be comparing itself to the likes of non-league football, ice hockey and motocross, other sports which are struggling to survive.

I've always maintained speedway's biggest problem is that it is a sport for spectators and not riders. There is no grassroots and this means the sport will die. As a contrived team sport, it relies on imports it cannot really afford, serving up a product only the diehards really get.

Speedway can't go forward unless it reinvents itself as a grassroots (individual) sport which competitors wish to spend their money on as a hobby. If it can achieve that, the team/professional sport may have a chance on the back of it.

As someone who might be interested in racing speedway as a hobby, I have no real outlet but I can always ride some motocross, do track days or race karts. These are far bigger issues than riders being paraded before the start of a meeting.

[SteelShoe]

21 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

But have TV viewing fiqures on par with 2or 3 tier football and more than most other sports at league level so the question is really how do we get those people into stadiums 

What exactly are the viewing figures for British Speedway ? . I know WBD have Speedway as part of their Home of Bikes package which also  includes the Moto GP and British Superbikes but were can you get viewing figures for the individual sports. It also depends on which channel it is on. TNT Sports 1 for example has around 5.9 million viewers but TNT Sports 4 only commands about 1.6million. 

To get more people into stadiums is the hard part , certainly Speedway  has to be more of an 'experience' so the pull to be there is stronger than sitting on your sofa watching it on tv. It has to appear to be professional, this includes reducing delays to racing waiting on the often only paramedic to assess a potentially injured rider, track grades to correct poorly prepared tracks that make riders look like novices or covering the fans in clouds of dust at evening meetings because of inadequate watering. Such things are avoidable and in many cases inexcusable.

Speedway is undoubtedly a better sport experienced live but the increase in tv/ streaming coverage may well be having a detrimental effect on gates and hence atmosphere. Speedway like any sport needs a crowd preferably with a mix of home and away fans plus two teams riding with passion, skill and a strong desire to entertain the fans so they go home buzzing and wanting more. 

[SteelShoe]

5 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

On one hand I don't disagree with you, but these things are so far down the list as to be irrelevant.

The presentation of the sport is stuck in the 1970s, it needs to be addressed, but the utter lack of riders and facilities are what will be the death of speedway. That's far more important than connecting to the pitiful 'crowds' the sport has.

Comparing British league speedway to Formula One is also completely irrelevant. As a sport, it should be comparing itself to the likes of non-league football, ice hockey and motocross, other sports which are struggling to survive.

I've always maintained speedway's biggest problem is that it is a sport for spectators and not riders. There is no grassroots and this means the sport will die. As a contrived team sport, it relies on imports it cannot really afford, serving up a product only the diehards really get.

Speedway can't go forward unless it reinvents itself as a grassroots (individual) sport which competitors wish to spend their money on as a hobby. If it can achieve that, the team/professional sport may have a chance on the back of it.

As someone who might be interested in racing speedway as a hobby, I have no real outlet but I can always ride some motocross, do track days or race karts. These are far bigger issues than riders being paraded before the start of a meeting.

Some very good points here. Not enough youngsters trying Speedway or having the opportunity to try Speedway.

[AndiCapp]

This is now time when the sport in this country is in such a dire state where the fans have to have their say in the future rebuild of this sport as there are so few club who can post a set of books in the 'black'. 

All rules and regulations are outdated and are in place to add further detriment to this amazing sport.

The sport will only survive if the powers that be listen to the fans and drawback all the financial instability that is causing 90% of clubs to lose money each season to change the landscape of British Speedway before it becomes too late.

Back in 1999 when the club reformed the majority of riders worked as the money to be made wasnt the same as it is today.

There has been far too many negative impacts on the sport in that time namingly so 'Doubling Up', thus overtime losing riders because they are no longer needed. 

I am not an advocate of streaming in any way as that is simply another way of keeping fans from the tracks and missing the secondary spend i.e programmes, food, drink etc. even if the clubs get money from it after each meeting/season it simply wont put back the amount of revenue the clubs lose.

The competitions all require an upgrade where each competition has different rules to attract fans as there is no fun going to Poole in a Knockout fixture and being 19-5 after 4 heats with no tactical changes allowed. What has happened to fans being entertained and the whole 'Heat 8' protected race is a load of garbage, why not re-introduce Golden Doubles which gives both sets of fans a chance of entertainment even if the meeting has been a damp squib. 

General pricing is reasonable if the clubs didnt have to pay out such astronomical fees to not only riders but running costs to get the meetings on, hense how one league is the only way forward and that means paying out a miximum of £100 a point then riders leave the league so be it, this helps rebuild the bottom end of the sport but also regionalise the leagues North/South to reduce fuel bills then have play offs to work out the winners.

I am truly concerned that in 5 years there will be no speedway in this country and it wont be down to the promoters (in their own clubs) but the ones selected as management to the sport as they cannot let this go un-noticed any longer.

British Speedway HAS to be rubbed out and drawn again to give it a chance to survive before we lose a sport we all love.

Looking forward to being back on track following this side around the tracks whilst thriving in my weekly fix of racing!

🔵⚪️

 

[Youhave2minutes]

Is that the last we will see of speedway at Northside?

[AndiCapp]

Just now, Youhave2minutes said:

Is that the last we will see of speedway at Northside?

Nopeeee

[lewy]

6 minutes ago, AndiCapp said:

Nopeeee

How do you know 

 

[truthsayer]

6 minutes ago, AndiCapp said:

This is now time when the sport in this country is in such a dire state where the fans have to have their say in the future rebuild of this sport as there are so few club who can post a set of books in the 'black'. 

All rules and regulations are outdated and are in place to add further detriment to this amazing sport.

The sport will only survive if the powers that be listen to the fans and drawback all the financial instability that is causing 90% of clubs to lose money each season to change the landscape of British Speedway before it becomes too late.

Back in 1999 when the club reformed the majority of riders worked as the money to be made wasnt the same as it is today.

There has been far too many negative impacts on the sport in that time namingly so 'Doubling Up', thus overtime losing riders because they are no longer needed. 

I am not an advocate of streaming in any way as that is simply another way of keeping fans from the tracks and missing the secondary spend i.e programmes, food, drink etc. even if the clubs get money from it after each meeting/season it simply wont put back the amount of revenue the clubs lose.

The competitions all require an upgrade where each competition has different rules to attract fans as there is no fun going to Poole in a Knockout fixture and being 19-5 after 4 heats with no tactical changes allowed. What has happened to fans being entertained and the whole 'Heat 8' protected race is a load of garbage, why not re-introduce Golden Doubles which gives both sets of fans a chance of entertainment even if the meeting has been a damp squib. 

General pricing is reasonable if the clubs didnt have to pay out such astronomical fees to not only riders but running costs to get the meetings on, hense how one league is the only way forward and that means paying out a miximum of £100 a point then riders leave the league so be it, this helps rebuild the bottom end of the sport but also regionalise the leagues North/South to reduce fuel bills then have play offs to work out the winners.

I am truly concerned that in 5 years there will be no speedway in this country and it wont be down to the promoters (in their own clubs) but the ones selected as management to the sport as they cannot let this go un-noticed any longer.

British Speedway HAS to be rubbed out and drawn again to give it a chance to survive before we lose a sport we all love.

Looking forward to being back on track following this side around the tracks whilst thriving in my weekly fix of racing!

🔵⚪️

 

Paying £100 a point (even if that's a maximum) suggests a wage bill of around £10,000 per meeting (assuming we also pay bonus points).

I find it hard to believe a speedway attendance can profitably cover anything close to that. No. Where. Even. Close.

[IainB]

6 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

On one hand I don't disagree with you, but these things are so far down the list as to be irrelevant.

The presentation of the sport is stuck in the 1970s, it needs to be addressed, but the utter lack of riders and facilities are what will be the death of speedway. That's far more important than connecting to the pitiful 'crowds' the sport has.

Comparing British league speedway to Formula One is also completely irrelevant. As a sport, it should be comparing itself to the likes of non-league football, ice hockey and motocross, other sports which are struggling to survive.

I've always maintained speedway's biggest problem is that it is a sport for spectators and not riders. There is no grassroots and this means the sport will die. As a contrived team sport, it relies on imports it cannot really afford, serving up a product only the diehards really get.

Speedway can't go forward unless it reinvents itself as a grassroots (individual) sport which competitors wish to spend their money on as a hobby. If it can achieve that, the team/professional sport may have a chance on the back of it.

As someone who might be interested in racing speedway as a hobby, I have no real outlet but I can always ride some motocross, do track days or race karts. These are far bigger issues than riders being paraded before the start of a meeting.

As business's they're a million miles apart and bare no comparison, but... they are both sporting competitions and that is where you can compare them and Speedway is severely lacking in many areas that it's easier than ever before to offer. 

You do touch on something where Speedway is almost unique it's an individual sport masquerading as a team sport, the fans are interested in following their team and most of the riders are interested in individual glory. With F1 it's also an individual sport masquerading as a team sport but conversely the fans don't really care who wins the constructors championship, they care who wins the drivers championship. 

The grassroots of Speedway used to be grasstrack, not so much these days with many riders coming from a MotoX background but there is also a thriving junior programme which has produced many riders and really has been quite a success... these riders have then been denied opportunity in the leagues due to the senior riders doubling up and taking all of the team spots.

With all due respect to you and I don't wish to be rude but I can't see many fans wanting to follow you on your individual path to glory. Fans over the years have followed the club that represents their local town/ city and then maybe their star rider who rides for them...  If you really are interested in having a go though, have you checked out the Aiden Collins thing?

 

[truthsayer]

16 minutes ago, IainB said:

With all due respect to you and I don't wish to be rude but I can't see many fans wanting to follow you on your individual path to glory. Fans over the years have followed the club that represents their local town/ city and then maybe their star rider who rides for them...  If you really are interested in having a go though, have you checked out the Aiden Collins thing?

 

This is the thing. I don't care about fans. I am 48, I just want a hobby. I can spend a few grand a year like I do on track days but there is no outlet for anyone who doesn't want to be part of a team.

This 'professional from day one' mentality has been around speedway for around 30 years. I seem to remember training tracks like Iwade, Felton and Linlithgow, where you could just pay your money and ride your bike. Some would just ride, others would go into a team system.

An individual race series, where riders pay to enter and compete, would be a more typical business model for speedway. Most motorsports rely on entry fees to be viable, with sponsorship, TV deals and trackside audiences only really making a significant difference to the very top tier series.

Speedway is not a motorsport, it is a team sport and it needs to be a participation sport. With all due respect, you don't seem to get that club speedway is dead. It is not relevant now and you are watching it die in front of you. It's not a case of not many fans want to watch me, not many fans want to watch. Full stop.

Edited June 29 by truthsayer
missing word

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

You would be surprised who reads this forum, sometimes just as a guest, hi to you all 😉

[AndiCapp]

37 minutes ago, lewy said:

How do you know 

 

If you know you know! 

[IainB]

10 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

This is the thing. I don't care about fans. I am 48, I just want a hobby. I can spend a few grand a year like I do on track days but there is no outlet for anyone who doesn't want to be part of a team.

This 'professional from day one' mentality has been around speedway for around 30 years. I seem to remember training tracks like Iwade, Felton and Linlithgow, where you could just pay your money and ride your bike. Some would just ride, others would go into a team system.

An individual race series, where riders pay to enter and compete, would be a more typical business model for speedway. Most motorsports rely on entry fees to be viable, with sponsorship, TV deals and trackside audiences only really making a significant difference to the very top tier series.

Speedway is not a motorsport, it is a team sport and it needs to be a participation sport. With all due respect, you don't seem to get that club speedway is dead. It is not relevant now and you are watching it die in front of you. It's not a case of not many fans want to watch me, not many fans want to watch. Full stop.

Again, with respect, I don't think the sport should be spending any time on providing 48 year old hobby riders the facilities to have a go, there's certainly no future in that. It's a young man's game as is all professional sport 

All of the issues that face the professional sport in this country are addressable, it just needs the will to do it, it is certainly not dead... some riders may walk away, so be it, but there are youngsters out there ready to take their place.

[lewy]

1 minute ago, AndiCapp said:

If you know you know! 

I hope you're right.

[truthsayer]

3 minutes ago, IainB said:

Again, with respect, I don't think the sport should be spending any time on providing 48 year old hobby riders the facilities to have a go, there's certainly no future in that. It's a young man's game as is all professional sport 

Here's the thing though, how can you create professional riders if you don't have amateurs?

And wouldn't speedway prefer me to spend the £3000 I put into the motorsport economy each year with them, rather than giving it to other organisations for track days and club races? I take nothing from it, only contribute. I put more financially into motorbike racing than a fan who goes to every round of the British Superbike Championship. Speedway doesn't want me as a customer though, unless I go along to be bored as a spectator every week from March to September.

In every single professional sport I can think of, the number of participants paying to play outnumbers those being paid to play by multiples in the hundreds and thousands - this is as true in football and ice hockey as it is in motorsports. The only sport I can think of where the majority of participants are paid (even if most still lose money) is, you've guessed it, speedway!

The business model is so utterly unsustainable yet here we are, thinking that changing a points limit and making riders do a victory lap will somehow bring the good times back again!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

2 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Here's the thing though, how can you create professional riders if you don't have amateurs?

And wouldn't speedway prefer me to spend the £3000 I put into the motorsport economy each year with them, rather than giving it to other organisations for track days and club races? I take nothing from it, only contribute. I put more financially into motorbike racing than a fan who goes to every round of the British Superbike Championship. Speedway doesn't want me as a customer though, unless I go along to be bored as a spectator every week from March to September.

In every single professional sport I can think of, the number of participants paying to play outnumbers those being paid to play by multiples in the hundreds and thousands - this is as true in football and ice hockey as it is in motorsports. The only sport I can think of where the majority of participants are paid (even if most still lose money) is, you've guessed it, speedway!

The business model is so utterly unsustainable yet here we are, thinking that changing a points limit and making riders do a victory lap will somehow bring the good times back again!

Some very valid points there but there is amateur racing where you pay to race, Scunthorpe, Leicester, Isle of Wight and Lydd all run amatuer meetings 

[truthsayer]

2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Some very valid points there but there is amateur racing where you pay to race, Scunthorpe, Leicester, Isle of Wight and Lydd all run amatuer meetings 

They certainly keep that quiet!

It's good to hear, but I stand by what I say. Not enough facilities, not enough riders and no grassroots to speak of. What worked in the 1960s isn't what people want today and focussing on a business model which relies on fans turning up to watch team speedway won't have more than a few years left in it.

[IainB]

6 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Here's the thing though, how can you create professional riders if you don't have amateurs?

And wouldn't speedway prefer me to spend the £3000 I put into the motorsport economy each year with them, rather than giving it to other organisations for track days and club races? I take nothing from it, only contribute. I put more financially into motorbike racing than a fan who goes to every round of the British Superbike Championship. Speedway doesn't want me as a customer though, unless I go along to be bored as a spectator every week from March to September.

In every single professional sport I can think of, the number of participants paying to play outnumbers those being paid to play by multiples in the hundreds and thousands - this is as true in football and ice hockey as it is in motorsports. The only sport I can think of where the majority of participants are paid (even if most still lose money) is, you've guessed it, speedway!

The business model is so utterly unsustainable yet here we are, thinking that changing a points limit and making riders do a victory lap will somehow bring the good times back again!

I get what you're saying and speedway does have amateur opportunities as @THE DEAN MACHINE has mentioned, add to that grasstrack and the youth system and there is opportunity for all ages. Speedway is very different from many of the sports you're thinking of because of the need for highly specialised kit to compete. I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the victory lap thing, we all know that's not going to save the sport alone it's just an issue I've highlighted to represent the greater lack of interaction between those competing and those paying to watch. 

[truthsayer]

2 minutes ago, IainB said:

I get what you're saying and speedway does have amateur opportunities as @THE DEAN MACHINE has mentioned, add to that grasstrack and the youth system and there is opportunity for all ages. Speedway is very different from many of the sports you're thinking of because of the need for highly specialised kit to compete. I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the victory lap thing, we all know that's not going to save the sport alone it's just an issue I've highlighted to represent the greater lack of interaction between those competing and those paying to watch. 

Last one from me. 

I think we're not so far apart here.

But speedway should be such an inexpensive and accessible participation sport, but it is not. It is not particularly accessible, despite what you say, and the number of people taking out of it cannot be justified by the amount of money in it.

Every other sport I can think of has a clear delineation between the amateur and professional ranks. In amateur, the participant pays, whether that's car racing, tennis or fishing, and this is an industry in itself, one which is bigger than the professional side. Speedway does not have this, the number of amateurs should outrank 'professionals' by at least 50 to 1.

It is an amateur sport, with amateur sport levels of spectators, run (largely) at amateur level venues with presentation and promotion from enthusiastic but ultimately underwhelming individuals. The insistence that it continues to be this contrived team sport will be the death of it. The world is going to some dark places just now and the idea that league speedway exists in the UK in five years time seems impossible to me, sadly.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

10 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

They certainly keep that quiet!

It's good to hear, but I stand by what I say. Not enough facilities, not enough riders and no grassroots to speak of. What worked in the 1960s isn't what people want today and focussing on a business model which relies on fans turning up to watch team speedway won't have more than a few years left in it.

The only thing that is healthy and grassroots like is the GT140 grasstrack which they run on speedway tracks too,I have considered it as a bit of fun but decided it’s not for me as the engines are just not fast enough but it seems to be having a bit of a surge in participants and I think the GT140 championships have about 10 rounds per year at different tracks