mikebv Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 hours ago, Aries said: And yet the biggest cheer of the season apparently was when your GP star Fricke came from 15 metres to win on the line in spectacular fashion. I’m sorry but you ain’t getting that kind of star quality from the Thompson’s or even Ryan Douglas. How people are happy to see these riders depart is beyond me. And we keep getting told that "sponsors" pay for them.. So, what's the issue in keeping them? The reality is that there are various ways the top riders get money... Not all get 100% fully paid up for home and away meetings... Some part sponsor, part club payments... I presume the concern is that if "some stay" riding for just a few clubs, then the others won't have top riders as they cannot afford them., One thing is for sure though, if your business is struggling and you need to lower head count... Getting rid of your best people first is a hugely risky strategy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaddlebowRoad Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago the only way i can see the prem surviving is if at least one current champ team move up or if the spires carry on not sure either are likely i also wonder if the 'big three' clubs would be prepared to sacrifice one of their big names to other clubs for the good of the league if need be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 4 hours ago, Aries said: Ok, let’s get rid of the quality we do have, and let everybody have mediocre teams and equally sh!t attendances for the sake of equality and “credibility”. Terrific strategy. Ban the GP stars, problems solved! Poole get better attendances than when last in the Prem and no GP stars. They are not the be all and end all imo. They are great to have but you cannot hold other clubs to ransom for sake for 4-6 riders. Edited 3 hours ago by LisaColette 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: And we keep getting told that "sponsors" pay for them.. So, what's the issue in keeping them? The reality is that there are various ways the top riders get money... Not all get 100% fully paid up for home and away meetings... Some part sponsor, part club payments... I presume the concern is that if "some stay" riding for just a few clubs, then the others won't have top riders as they cannot afford them., One thing is for sure though, if your business is struggling and you need to lower head count... Getting rid of your best people first is a hugely risky strategy.... If everybody had the sponsors the model works, unfortunately not every club does, all PL clubs do have the TV money though (at the moment) but not all of them have the crowds, so some of that money would have to offset the lack of crowd numbers. If we say Sheffield, Ippo, BV & Leicester (I think) have decent sponsors, Lynn & Oxford also have sponsors but they're not synonymous with the club and Brum are sponsored by their owner! Brum are gone, we know that and we expect Spires to end... which other clubs in the UK have a sponsorship deal that allows them to fund these "best people"... there will always be "best people" at clubs even if they're NDL level. The only way to keep the "stars" and entice more, would be for Mr Morris & Co to approach one of the TV broadcasters with a proposal that blows the Poles out of the water, a £10m-£15m per season deal, you'd hope that with the end of the current deal fast approaching that this has already been done and the league structure for the span of the next deal, if there is one, is already being planned... now stop laughing! Taken from Google: Gathering precise and regularly updated viewing figures for sports like speedway in the UK can be challenging, as broadcasters and governing bodies don't always release granular data, especially for niche sports. However, we can glean some insights from historical data and current commentary: General Trends & Historical Context: * Modest but Passionate Audience: Speedway has a dedicated and passionate fanbase in the UK, but its overall viewership is significantly smaller than mainstream sports like football or rugby. * Decline from Peak: Historical BARB (Broadcasters' Audience Research Board) figures, particularly from the 2000s and early 2010s, indicate a decline in average live British speedway viewing figures from a peak around 2007-2009. For instance, the average audience on Sky Sports for Elite League speedway in 2011 was around 80,611, which was down significantly from 145,550 in 2008. By 2013, it had fallen to an all-time low of 62,615. * Lowest Figures: Before BT Sport (now TNT Sports) took over, the least popular live British speedway meetings on Sky Sports would sometimes hover around 40,000 viewers. Current Situation with TNT Sports / Discovery+ / DMAX: * Shift to Pay-TV/Streaming: The move of British Premiership Speedway and the FIM Speedway Grand Prix to TNT Sports (formerly Eurosport/BT Sport) and its streaming counterpart Discovery+ means that viewing figures are primarily within a subscription model. These platforms do not typically release specific per-event viewership numbers for individual sports in the same way free-to-air channels might. * "Millions of Viewers" (Platform Reach): When Discovery+ and Eurosport promote their speedway coverage, they often talk about making the action available to "millions of viewers" through their platforms. This refers to the potential reach of their subscriber base, not necessarily the number of people actively watching speedway. For example, TNT Sports 1 had monthly viewing figures of 5,864,000 in December, while Eurosport 1 had 2,035,000. Speedway is just one of many sports on these channels. * Free-to-Air Highlights: The inclusion of highlights on DMAX is crucial for broader exposure. While these figures are also not often broken down by sport, free-to-air channels generally have a much wider reach than subscription services. * Focus on Fan Engagement: The broadcasters emphasize attracting new viewers and delivering an engaging experience for passionate fans, using features like live data (rider heartbeat, reaction time) and additional editorial content. International Comparison (Poland): It's worth noting that speedway has a much larger following in some other countries, particularly Poland. For example, in May 2022, the Orlen FIM Speedway GP of Poland in Warsaw reached 6.6 million viewers over the weekend across TVN Group's channels and platforms in Poland, with an average live audience of 442,000 on the free-to-air channel TTV. This highlights the significant difference in popularity and viewing habits for speedway across different territories. In summary, while precise, recent UK viewing figures for speedway are hard to come by, it's understood to be a niche sport with a dedicated, but relatively small, linear TV audience on pay-TV channels. The focus for broadcasters like TNT Sports and Discovery+ is on serving that passionate fanbase within their subscription offerings, while using free-to-air highlights (DMAX) to attract a wider audience. Edited 3 hours ago by IainB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 46 minutes ago, IainB said: If everybody had the sponsors the model works, unfortunately not every club does, all PL clubs do have the TV money though (at the moment) but not all of them have the crowds, so some of that money would have to offset the lack of crowd numbers. If we say Sheffield, Ippo, BV & Leicester (I think) have decent sponsors, Lynn & Oxford also have sponsors but they're not synonymous with the club and Brum are sponsored by their owner! Brum are gone, we know that and we expect Spires to end... which other clubs in the UK have a sponsorship deal that allows them to fund these "best people"... there will always be "best people" at clubs even if they're NDL level. The only way to keep the "stars" and entice more, would be for Mr Morris & Co to approach one of the TV broadcasters with a proposal that blows the Poles out of the water, a £10m-£15m per season deal, you'd hope that with the end of the current deal fast approaching that this has already been done and the league structure for the span of the next deal, if there is one, is already being planned... now stop laughing! Taken from Google: Gathering precise and regularly updated viewing figures for sports like speedway in the UK can be challenging, as broadcasters and governing bodies don't always release granular data, especially for niche sports. However, we can glean some insights from historical data and current commentary: General Trends & Historical Context: * Modest but Passionate Audience: Speedway has a dedicated and passionate fanbase in the UK, but its overall viewership is significantly smaller than mainstream sports like football or rugby. * Decline from Peak: Historical BARB (Broadcasters' Audience Research Board) figures, particularly from the 2000s and early 2010s, indicate a decline in average live British speedway viewing figures from a peak around 2007-2009. For instance, the average audience on Sky Sports for Elite League speedway in 2011 was around 80,611, which was down significantly from 145,550 in 2008. By 2013, it had fallen to an all-time low of 62,615. * Lowest Figures: Before BT Sport (now TNT Sports) took over, the least popular live British speedway meetings on Sky Sports would sometimes hover around 40,000 viewers. Current Situation with TNT Sports / Discovery+ / DMAX: * Shift to Pay-TV/Streaming: The move of British Premiership Speedway and the FIM Speedway Grand Prix to TNT Sports (formerly Eurosport/BT Sport) and its streaming counterpart Discovery+ means that viewing figures are primarily within a subscription model. These platforms do not typically release specific per-event viewership numbers for individual sports in the same way free-to-air channels might. * "Millions of Viewers" (Platform Reach): When Discovery+ and Eurosport promote their speedway coverage, they often talk about making the action available to "millions of viewers" through their platforms. This refers to the potential reach of their subscriber base, not necessarily the number of people actively watching speedway. For example, TNT Sports 1 had monthly viewing figures of 5,864,000 in December, while Eurosport 1 had 2,035,000. Speedway is just one of many sports on these channels. * Free-to-Air Highlights: The inclusion of highlights on DMAX is crucial for broader exposure. While these figures are also not often broken down by sport, free-to-air channels generally have a much wider reach than subscription services. * Focus on Fan Engagement: The broadcasters emphasize attracting new viewers and delivering an engaging experience for passionate fans, using features like live data (rider heartbeat, reaction time) and additional editorial content. International Comparison (Poland): It's worth noting that speedway has a much larger following in some other countries, particularly Poland. For example, in May 2022, the Orlen FIM Speedway GP of Poland in Warsaw reached 6.6 million viewers over the weekend across TVN Group's channels and platforms in Poland, with an average live audience of 442,000 on the free-to-air channel TTV. This highlights the significant difference in popularity and viewing habits for speedway across different territories. In summary, while precise, recent UK viewing figures for speedway are hard to come by, it's understood to be a niche sport with a dedicated, but relatively small, linear TV audience on pay-TV channels. The focus for broadcasters like TNT Sports and Discovery+ is on serving that passionate fanbase within their subscription offerings, while using free-to-air highlights (DMAX) to attract a wider audience. Or in summary... A lineal decline in the UK since 2000 with not much at all done to even slow the decline down, let alone reverse it... Just listened to the R&A CEO talking about fan engagement and how the top stars' tee times go out to balance Europe and USA TV coverage... And that the slow play has meant the afternoon top stars finishing in front of half empty grandstands at 17 and 18 which "isn't a good look" for those non golf fans who they are trying to engage... He also said the the top stars need to be focused on because "every sport needs a shop window", and the best competitors provide that, especially to attract kids to the sport who see the best as being their aspiration... Amazing that UK Speedway believe something the complete opposite is the way forward.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 7 minutes ago, mikebv said: Or in summary... A lineal decline in the UK since 2000 with not much at all done to even slow the decline down, let alone reverse it... Just listened to the R&A CEO talking about fan engagement and how the top stars' tee times go out to balance Europe and USA TV coverage... And that the slow play has meant the afternoon top stars finishing in front of half empty grandstands at 17 and 18 which "isn't a good look" for those non golf fans who they are trying to engage... He also said the the top stars need to be focused on because "every sport needs a shop window", and the best competitors provide that, especially to attract kids to the sport who see the best as being their aspiration... Amazing that UK Speedway believe something the complete opposite is the way forward.. I do feel you're not comparing apples with apples here, The Open is the SGP series, PL Speedway is the tour matches that don't attract all of the top stars but only a few at a time. You do make a good point about the timings... like PL running in a Monday and Thursday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, LisaColette said: Poole get better attendances than when last in the Prem and no GP stars. They are not the be all and end all imo. They are great to have but you cannot hold other clubs to ransom for sake for 4-6 riders. That’s amazing and has to be applauded. When you take into account you had the best crowds in the league back then, to increase them without the top stars, the cost of living crisis and many other factors impacting the sport, Poole really need to be coaching other clubs on how they increase crowds from an already healthy level. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 2 hours ago, SaddlebowRoad said: the only way i can see the prem surviving is if at least one current champ team move up or if the spires carry on not sure either are likely i also wonder if the 'big three' clubs would be prepared to sacrifice one of their big names to other clubs for the good of the league if need be The Aces would, just as we have with Max to Leicester when they moved up and it was great to see Tom riding at number 1 last season at Birmingham. We wouldn’t want to and it’s hard to see our lads moved on after the work put in but there is a bigger picture here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago I decided to have a look back at the set up for the top league in 1976, I just arbitrarily picked that year from a period when the sport was riding high. Though we had more tracks the issue of top stars not being available to all and the repetitive nature of the same clubs challenging was just the same. It’s easy to name certain riders when harking back to the old days but there just wasn’t enough to ride for each club. In 1976, Birmingham had Alan Grahame, Cradley John Boulger, Hackney Dave Morton, Halifax Christ Pusey, Hull Barry Briggs in his forties, Wimbledon tragic with a number 1 and Wolverhampton Jimmy McMillan. All fine riders but the gap between them and the Olsen & Collins of the time was the same if not more than the gap now. Jettisoning top rides is not going to save our top league, however if they had a 5-10 plan to get speedway back to where it should be and they could prove their reasoning then I’d accept it. I just feel if they did it then we would see no benefit and the sport would continue to die. I not saying this in a holier than thou way but Belle Vue’s operating model regarding team building needs to be adopted throughout. Dan (3.00), Brady (7.50), Jaimon (4.00), Norick (4.00), Tom plus Max (4.84) etc are riders brought to the club that we have invested time and effort in seeing them reach their full potential. This also generates an identity with the club that the fans can engage in. The problem for other clubs in doing this is the fact there is little longevity in top league participation. Ipswich (2019) & Sheffield (2021) are considered top clubs yet only recently did they move back up to the top league, I’ve got older soup in the cupboard and this doesn’t allow the rider development as mentioned above. If we can, we need to stop this yo yo ing of clubs from year to year. Having said that in the past, clubs would move up when ready and not when cajoled into it. When Ipswich moved up in the 70’s it was on the back of a very successful period of rider development with many team members moving up with them. The problem with doing that nowadays is the dreaded doubling up that has been allowed to grow at an alarming rate so you move up into a league where “your” riders are already participating with other teams. The sport once again painting itself into a corner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 53 minutes ago, IainB said: I do feel you're not comparing apples with apples here, The Open is the SGP series, PL Speedway is the tour matches that don't attract all of the top stars but only a few at a time. You do make a good point about the timings... like PL running in a Monday and Thursday The sizes of fhe sports are irrelevant.... There are fundamental basics which any sport should follow... And using your TV contract to make you look a decent popular proposition is one of the key ones... The UK promoters obviously don't give a monkeys how their product comes across when on TV given the lack of a decent crowd being accepted time and time again... People are sheep. (Look at how popular influencers are?). Make something look popular and you have a chance others might go along... Make something look like where your Grandparents go, (and dozens of other Grandparents go), and others probably won't go along... I think it is quite telling how many ex riders promote.. Which inevitably seems to end up with an operating model, and business plan, that seems more set up to suit the riders, rather than the paying public... I would be amazed if doubling up went snd one league would negate that... Meaning if one league did happen I presume home and away twice and five rides a night for those who currently DU? And plenty of guest opportunities given the six day racing structure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted just now Report Share Posted just now Out of interest does anyone have any inkling what each prem club gets from the current tv contract ? from memory Flagrag if he's still about was close to people in broadcasting maybe he knows/has some thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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