Seriously

[PhilTheAce]

1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

No it doesn’t, how much merch is seen worn inside the stadium ? Very little, I’m not having a dig at BV this is every track, it doesn’t have a brand or an identity, my son has a belle vue shirt and he is one of the very few who wear them on race night, the brand is what sells the team 

im sure you just walk around with your eyes closed, but id say out of all clubs, and ive been to all, belle vue is one of the best for wearing team clothing

[PhilTheAce]

2 hours ago, IainB said:

Even the one on the back straight that I have only ever seen open once on my many visits to the NSS?

the south shop is open every match

[Sargent10]

35 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Ffs 🙄 I’m not comparing the two I’m pointing out that merchandise is and should be a must for all team sports including speedway in Poland the uk or on the moon, it’s branding and branding generates publicity and awareness but for whatever the reason we don’t seem to push it, so get off your high horse and actually get the point 

I got to the point, in Poland I said it’s tribal like football in Britain it’s simple, speedway has ceased being that way for years, less people of the age who would actually want to wear team shirts or something associated with a certain team, scarves used to be more common in the 70/s and eighties but certainly not now, times have changed and demand has changed, fact of life 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

4 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said:

im sure you just walk around with your eyes closed, but id say out of all clubs, and ive been to all, belle vue is one of the best for wearing team clothing

It may well be the best but it’s only a fraction of the crowd, Birmingham had virtually non that’s my point, im not having a go at BV this is about British speedway, all fans need to wearing their own brands ,I’m going to Ipswich tonight and I will see how many wear their attire 

Edited 5 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

4 minutes ago, Sargent10 said:

I got to the point, in Poland I said it’s tribal like football in Britain it’s simple, speedway has ceased being that way for years, less people of the age who would actually want to wear team shirts or something associated with a certain team, scarves used to be more common in the 70/s and eighties but certainly not now, times have changed and demand has changed, fact of life 

Except at football where all ages wear their teams shirts even the women 

Edited 5 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE

[PersonalResponsibility]

14 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

How many belle vue tee shirts,scarfs  and hoodies etc did the belle vue track shop sell Monday night or any race night for that matter ? Something I witnessed last week at zielona gora and gorzow was just how many fans brought the merch from the club stores, there were que’s out the doors, team shirts and scarfs were sold in huge quantities generating substantial income for the clubs and it seemed no matter what you wanted they had it with their logo on it 

I get that it's a chicken & egg situation in Britain, but the appearance of the merch available in Poland is usually superior to this country, and doesn't normally start and end with a race shirt and a polo top. I bought some Janowski merch where I last visited Poland, just because it was a decent looking tee that had a cool speedway design on it - I don't think I could name a more boring and forgettable top-level rider than Janowski, but I still bought his merch because it looked decent.

1 hour ago, Sargent10 said:

Ffs, I wish everyone would stop comparing British speedway with Poland, completely different animal, in Poland speedway is virtually the national sport, said it so many times how many other sports in Poland have any sort of history/following? Speedway is tribal over there like football here, so merchandising is big business and they buy the shirts etc and follow their team, that finished years ago in British speedway, probably around the time of the premier league starting and coverage of football increasing, one notable aspect of this happened this last couple of weeks, Lublin having to restructure themselves because council grants which most teams receive are being cut because there local football club is doing well and maybe that’s a sign of things changing.

It's a completely different animal, yes...but it's the exact same sport. Why is it virtually the national sport? Why is it tribal? Why is merchandising a big business? I don't think Poland has any big secret that they're keeping from us, it's still 4 riders/4 laps/etc/etc. They just do everything better.

They don't have PL football to compete with but they still have football clubs who average 10,000+ every match, basketball clubs that average 15,000+, volleyball is very popular, gridiron is popular, etc. It's not as if it's some sporting backwater where the choice is speedway or nothing.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 minute ago, PersonalResponsibility said:

I get that it's a chicken & egg situation in Britain, but the appearance of the merch available in Poland is usually superior to this country, and doesn't normally start and end with a race shirt and a polo top. I bought some Janowski merch where I last visited Poland, just because it was a decent looking tee that had a cool speedway design on it - I don't think I could name a more boring and forgettable top-level rider than Janowski, but I still bought his merch because it looked decent.

It's a completely different animal, yes...but it's the exact same sport. Why is it virtually the national sport? Why is it tribal? Why is merchandising a big business? I don't think Poland has any big secret that they're keeping from us, it's still 4 riders/4 laps/etc/etc. They just do everything better.

They don't have PL football to compete with but they still have football clubs who average 10,000+ every match, basketball clubs that average 15,000+, volleyball is very popular, gridiron is popular, etc. It's not as if it's some sporting backwater where the choice is speedway or nothing.

That is a very good post, in this country we don’t address the differences we make excuses why we can’t do them 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

The councils giving money to polish clubs doesn’t make the clubs successful, the clubs being successful make the council money in tourism, speculate to accumulate, it’s happens in this country with anything successful, it’s just speedway isn’t, Does anyone who lives outside say zielona gora visit that town for any other reason than its speedway ? So how do the council attract visitors to spend their time and money in their town ?

Edited 4 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE

[ouch]

2 hours ago, bellevueace said:

I agree with that, supporters dont have that bond with their clubs that they used to have. When clubs had riders that were their riders that had an affinity with the club it was different, Belle Vue had Wilkie, PC, and Mort, Ipswich J Louis, Sanders, Davey, Kings Lynn Betts, Lee, Leicester Wilson, Coventry Boocock for example, fans and riders had that loyalty to their particular club. Today the riders are hired hands in comparison, but you could say the same about football too, times change and loyalty today is to Poland and the big money. Cant blame the riders considering the risks in the sport.

It’s pretty good at Belle Vue as most of our team ride for only us in this country with many who have never ridden for another top flight club. Most are quite long standing Aces with Dan being with us since 2016. It’s not the norm but something we like to do with our team. As with decades ago points limits, like rider control sees us forced to lose riders, we would have loved to have kept Max and Tom for instance but it’s good to see these riders continue to prosper at other clubs. 

Several riders are in the Craven suite after the meeting and mingle with the fans chatting and having photos and this has helped create a real affinity with the fans (many decked out in club colours) who see them as part of our Belle Vue family. 

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

4 minutes ago, ouch said:

 

Several riders are in the Craven suite after the meeting and mingle with the fans chatting and having photos and this has helped create a real affinity with the fans (many decked out in club colours) who see them as part of our Belle Vue family. 

 

I believe the BV riders have this written in their contract which imo is a good thing and shame other clubs don’t do it, I heard one promoter say he wasn’t interested in it when it was put to him as an idea, absolutely everything should be pushed by the clubs to forge that bond with the fans and club, riders on the whole are pretty easy going and will do such things if asked but if you don’t encourage they will just get in their vans and drive off 

Edited 4 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Sargent10]

18 minutes ago, PersonalResponsibility said:

I get that it's a chicken & egg situation in Britain, but the appearance of the merch available in Poland is usually superior to this country, and doesn't normally start and end with a race shirt and a polo top. I bought some Janowski merch where I last visited Poland, just because it was a decent looking tee that had a cool speedway design on it - I don't think I could name a more boring and forgettable top-level rider than Janowski, but I still bought his merch because it looked decent.

It's a completely different animal, yes...but it's the exact same sport. Why is it virtually the national sport? Why is it tribal? Why is merchandising a big business? I don't think Poland has any big secret that they're keeping from us, it's still 4 riders/4 laps/etc/etc. They just do everything better.

They don't have PL football to compete with but they still have football clubs who average 10,000+ every match, basketball clubs that average 15,000+, volleyball is very popular, gridiron is popular, etc. It's not as if it's some sporting backwater where the choice is speedway or nothing.

I’m not saying it’s not the same sport etc it’s about pulling power and usually it’s younger fans into the 20/30 year old, you quote football clubs average 10,000? Christ that’s a league one attendances, united have 75,000, city 55,000, they have world wide fan base and kids know the players, speedway in Britain is trying to complete locally with that and kids are going to follow their friends and want a footy shirt etc not a BV or whoever top, it’s just how it is, speedway can try everything it can but modern life has changed and speedway unfortunately has been left behind 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

2 minutes ago, Sargent10 said:

I’m not saying it’s not the same sport etc it’s about pulling power and usually it’s younger fans into the 20/30 year old, you quote football clubs average 10,000? Christ that’s a league one attendances, united have 75,000, city 55,000, they have world wide fan base and kids know the players, speedway in Britain is trying to complete locally with that and kids are going to follow their friends and want a footy shirt etc not a BV or whoever top, it’s just how it is, speedway can try everything it can but modern life has changed and speedway unfortunately has been left behind 

I don’t believe that, British speedway does have a place in modern society it just we don’t see it and we apologise and make excuses for what we can’t achieve and never think what we can achieve and that in the main is down to the personal running the sport, something that really gets me at the moment and I’ve spoken to a lot of people within the sport about this is not one person has a vison of where do we go from here ? Yes there is a plaster here and a bandage there but nobody has a plan or a vison or anything of any hope and that really bothers me 

[arnieg]

58 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said:

im sure you just walk around with your eyes closed, but id say out of all clubs, and ive been to all, belle vue is one of the best for wearing team clothing

I would also say (and I have said this in print) that Belle Vue has the best track shop in Britiah speedway (Glasgow are the only other serious contender)

[IainB]

1 hour ago, PhilTheAce said:

im sure you just walk around with your eyes closed, but id say out of all clubs, and ive been to all, belle vue is one of the best for wearing team clothing

Leicester are pretty good for merch wearing

1 hour ago, PhilTheAce said:

the south shop is open every match

I've only ever seen it open once in all my visits to Belle Vue, admittedly I only turn up just before start time and leave immediately afterwards but during the meeting and many interval breaks I've never seen it open

[IainB]

13 minutes ago, arnieg said:

I would also say (and I have said this in print) that Belle Vue has the best track shop in Britiah speedway (Glasgow are the only other serious contender)

It's a shame that in the 10 years I've been going to the NSS I'm still unable to get around to the other side of the stadium for a nose around, I've never seen it... only from the South stand. 

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, IainB said:

I'd disagree with that actually, last time I was up there, in the south stand, I actually did notice how many team shirts were being worn by the fans... maybe it's different in the posh seats in the main stand

Me and my lad on Monday were actually joking at just how many "wear the club shop"..

Plenty were doing so ...

Granted most were fifty something's so were wearing a coat over the top to keep the cold out... 

Which maybe hid just how many were wearing some Aces memorabilia..

The issue the sport has was clearly highlighted on Monday when, on an evening where there was no threat to it not taking place, given the forecast from 24 hours before, not enough Aces and Ipswich fans could be arsed turning up for a POSF...

The whole reason we go through a season of qualifiers is to get this part of the season meaning the competition itself must have so little kudos and credibility, even to some of the sports most regular followers,  that so many simply couldn't see the worth in attending...

The Ipswich fans stated a Monday night as being the problem, however, I am sure if it was the final then they would have attended..

(Maybe Phil was right in putting commercial reasons in front of everything else when he put Sheffield with Belle Vue!?)..

There are only SIX meetings that actually mean anything all year, therefore when one of those six delivers such disinterest, those who run Speedway should really be very worried..

No point having the play offs if they don't generate more money than the tracks lose by fans not bothering to attend qualifiers..

[IainB]

8 minutes ago, mikebv said:

There are only SIX meetings that actually mean anything all year, therefore when one of those six delivers such disinterest, those who run Speedway should really be very worried..

No point having the play offs if they don't generate more money than the tracks lose by fans not bothering to attend qualifiers..

There's a few more than 6, personally I still enjoy the KO Cup due to the sudden death nature of the competition, it's still recovering after the authorities bizarrely scrapped it for a few seasons. But generally I get your point, this season has been particularly bad competitiveness wise with the top 4 being so clearly better than the bottom 3 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

I don’t believe that, British speedway does have a place in modern society it just we don’t see it and we apologise and make excuses for what we can’t achieve and never think what we can achieve and that in the main is down to the personal running the sport, something that really gets me at the moment and I’ve spoken to a lot of people within the sport about this is not one person has a vison of where do we go from here ? Yes there is a plaster here and a bandage there but nobody has a plan or a vison or anything of any hope and that really bothers me 

And my case in point is CVS in speedway star today, not a idea unless he is advocating every rider buying and old jag and putting the bike on the back of it, he says the last time we did one big league the fans enjoyed it but it wasn’t a success, stupid me thought speedway was for the fans 

[noaksey]

On the subject of merch I was in Loughborough last week and a chap in the high street was wearing his Leicester Lions shirt

 Had a chat with him about the play offs

A rare event anywhere these days 

[PersonalResponsibility]

1 hour ago, Sargent10 said:

I’m not saying it’s not the same sport etc it’s about pulling power and usually it’s younger fans into the 20/30 year old, you quote football clubs average 10,000? Christ that’s a league one attendances, united have 75,000, city 55,000, they have world wide fan base and kids know the players, speedway in Britain is trying to complete locally with that and kids are going to follow their friends and want a footy shirt etc not a BV or whoever top, it’s just how it is, speedway can try everything it can but modern life has changed and speedway unfortunately has been left behind 

I agree it's not easy to compete, but that isn't a reason to just not bother either. Worryingly, it comes across as if most involved in the sport share your way of thinking.

You've named 2 clubs that BV have to compete against locally, and yet they seem to do a pretty good job. They're one of the biggest/most successful clubs in Britain. If they can manage that with 2 huge football clubs on their doorstep, what's stopping others? Who's competing locally with Kings Lynn, for example? Glasgow are another who have done very well, and another with 2 huge football clubs sharing the city.

I assume it's also very difficult and costly to get a ticket to watch any of the clubs mentioned above? Surely that's something we could at least try and exploit? People want to watch live sport, they want entertainment, so why not give them a fast-paced motorsport, plenty of entertainment and all for X% of what it would cost to watch a football match? As I said in my first post though, it's not VFM to watch speedway at 99% of places in this country, so people won't bother.