therefused Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 57 minutes ago, TTT said: I apologise to anyone who finds this disrespectful. NDL attendances are abysmal and that's because the vast majority of Die Hard Fans that we've still got left couldn't care less about it. So how on earth are we suppose to get a New Generation of Fans on board when it comes to the same crop of NDL Riders that'll be propping up 1 Big League to cover mass departures of PREM Riders? Here's the math. 27 of the 49 PREM Riders who ended the 2025 Season in a declared 1-7 D/UP'd in the CHAMP = 55% of the League and those 27 Riders will no longer be shared between PREM & CHAMP Clubs. If One Big League was to happen and fixtures didn't take place on a MON & THU Night, Then we're going to need replacements for the other 22 Riders who finished the 2025 Season in a declared PREM 1-7 as none of them will be here. Add that Rider shortage up and also take into account the 2027 Polish Rule and you'll see that One Big League is a 1 Million % destined failure before it's even begun. So after all these calculations how many riders do you think will be available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 6 hours ago, therefused said: I think thats a big assumption that everyone arguing for one league is not a fan of the prem. I am, but logic and history dictates its not working and not affordable in the current climate, if and when it gets to a point that it is then more the merrier, i would like nothing more than two full leagues of teams but it just isnt managable. It's not working I agree with you, But the alternative is a 1 Million % destined failure because mathematics state that it is. Despite a weaker standard in 1 Big League, Ticket Prices won't drop because Clubs Rent Bills won't drop, Rider Wages won't drop and other expenses won't drop because everything goes up in price when it comes to the World that we all live in today. Basically Clubs have got to convince Fans to pay £20 plus other expenses to watch almost 2 Dozen NDL Riders propping up One Big League that they currently have no interest in paying to watch. That's the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 17 minutes ago, Cross Roads said: This situation has not happened over night though. There should be a rolling plan year on year with minor tweaks so promotors and fans then know what to expect, ok there has been a curve ball with club closures this past year but season on season its a farce. Why not state by 2027 it will be one league and plans in place now for those who wish to participate. You don't see other sports changing rules yearly. My guess will be sticky plaster plans for 2026 same old and all moaning same old issues. It needs a complete re write that will clearly upset many but it needs to happen that will either push the sport on or kill it to death. Two decades too late. But 100% the only way forward... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, TTT said: I apologise to anyone who finds this disrespectful. NDL attendances are abysmal and that's because the vast majority of Die Hard Fans that we've still got left couldn't care less about it. So how on earth are we suppose to get a New Generation of Fans on board when it comes to the same crop of NDL Riders that'll be propping up 1 Big League to cover mass departures of PREM Riders? Here's the math. 27 of the 49 PREM Riders who ended the 2025 Season in a declared 1-7 D/UP'd in the CHAMP = 55% of the League and those 27 Riders will no longer be shared between PREM & CHAMP Clubs. If One Big League was to happen and fixtures didn't take place on a MON & THU Night, Then we're going to need replacements for the other 22 Riders who finished the 2025 Season in a declared PREM 1-7 as none of them will be here. Add that Rider shortage up and also take into account the 2027 Polish Rule and you'll see that One Big League is a 1 Million % destined failure before it's even begun. What you're not taking into account are the number of riders that have given the sport up over the last few years, many of them youngsters. If the costs could be kept under control there are still people out there that want to take the sport up. You're looking at a snapshot, you're also looking at the business as usual model 7 rider teams, what the sport needs imo is an amalgamation of all 3 leagues into 1 league with a race format meaning that Jack Smith (a capable Speedway rider at his level) isn't racing against the likes of Chris Harris/Richard Lawson all the time, it's maybe even time to introduce handicap racing which used to be the norm in the US, not sure if it still is. There was a big watering down of the CL a couple or 3 years back and nobody liked it, nobody even talks and probably remembers that now. I know from my own club that crowds are visibly lower in the PL on a Monday/Thursday than they were in the CL on a Saturday night... and that's a FACT 😁 Would you have been so vocal about the survival of the top flight when Ipswich were running in the 2nd tier from 2011 to 2018, would you have been so insistent that your club should be forced to have moved up to save the top tier? I'd also be intrigued to know why you think the BAU model will work when it's been proven not to work over the last 20 years... and that was WITH a tv contract? Edited 1 hour ago by IainB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 12 minutes ago, therefused said: So after all these calculations how many riders do you think will be available? It will all depend on whether CHAMP Clubs are prepared to give up FRI & SAT Race Nights in favour of MON & THU Nights. That will allow for some flexibility on the Rider situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 3 minutes ago, IainB said: What you're not taking into account are the number of riders that have given the sport up over the last few years, many of them youngsters. If the costs could be kept under control there are still people out there that want to take the sport up. You're looking at a snapshot, you're also looking at the business as usual model 7 rider teams, what the sport needs imo is an amalgamation of all 3 leagues into 1 league with a race format meaning that Jack Smith (a capable Speedway rider at his level) isn't racing against the likes of Chris Harris/Richard Lawson all the time, it's maybe even time to introduce handicap racing which used to be the norm in the US, not sure if it still is. There was a big watering down of the CL a couple or 3 years back and nobody liked it, nobody even talks and probably remembers that now. I know from my own club that crowds are visibly lower in the PL on a Monday/Thursday than they were in the CL on a Saturday night... and that's a FACT 😁 Would you have been so vocal about the survival of the top flight when Ipswich were running in the 2nd tier from 2011 to 2018, would you have been so insistent that your club should be forced to have moved up to save the top tier? Very good question. 👍👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 4 minutes ago, IainB said: What you're not taking into account are the number of riders that have given the sport up over the last few years, many of them youngsters. If the costs could be kept under control there are still people out there that want to take the sport up. You're looking at a snapshot, you're also looking at the business as usual model 7 rider teams, what the sport needs imo is an amalgamation of all 3 leagues into 1 league with a race format meaning that Jack Smith (a capable Speedway rider at his level) isn't racing against the likes of Chris Harris/Richard Lawson all the time, it's maybe even time to introduce handicap racing which used to be the norm in the US, not sure if it still is. There was a big watering down of the CL a couple or 3 years back and nobody liked it, nobody even talks and probably remembers that now. I know from my own club that crowds are visibly lower in the PL on a Monday/Thursday than they were in the CL on a Saturday night... and that's a FACT 😁 Would you have been so vocal about the survival of the top flight when Ipswich were running in the 2nd tier from 2011 to 2018, would you have been so insistent that your club should be forced to have moved up to save the top tier? Going to sound hypocritical but British Speedway was in a much different state back then in all fairness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago (edited) 45 minutes ago, TTT said: Going to sound hypocritical but British Speedway was in a much different state back then in all fairness. I'm not so sure about that... there has only been 1 thing that has kept British Speedway going in its current form since the turn of the millenium and the rise of Poland & the SGP series... and that is a tv deal. The current implosion was always going to happen when that particular golden teat ran dry and anybody with any foresight would have known this. Now that tv deal has gone it's time to cut our cloth accordingly, get the sport in order and fit for purpose as a sporting entertainment event and who knows in the future the powers that be maybe able to approach a tv company with a proposal of bringing in top stars for a proper tv deal and not the peanuts that has been received over the last 5 years or so. Edited 59 minutes ago by IainB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago (edited) British Speedway is running into a brick wall which ever way it turns. It's just a case of how hard do the BSPL want to hit that wall? Every solution leads to a dead end due to Financial Costs, Rider Availbility and the 2027 Polish Rule. Edited 1 hour ago by TTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 7 minutes ago, TTT said: British Speedway is running into a brick wall which ever way it turns. It's just a case of how hard do the BSPL want to hit that wall? Every solution leads to a dead end due to Financial Costs, Rider Availbility and the 2027 Polish Rule. All 3 of those can be addressed if the will is there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago It all boils down to the old saying, where there is a will, there is a way, the stumbling block from what I read is there are allegedly a couple of Clubs that don't want to lose Top league status. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 43 minutes ago, IainB said: What you're not taking into account are the number of riders that have given the sport up over the last few years, many of them youngsters. If the costs could be kept under control there are still people out there that want to take the sport up. You're looking at a snapshot, you're also looking at the business as usual model 7 rider teams, what the sport needs imo is an amalgamation of all 3 leagues into 1 league with a race format meaning that Jack Smith (a capable Speedway rider at his level) isn't racing against the likes of Chris Harris/Richard Lawson all the time, it's maybe even time to introduce handicap racing which used to be the norm in the US, not sure if it still is. There was a big watering down of the CL a couple or 3 years back and nobody liked it, nobody even talks and probably remembers that now. I know from my own club that crowds are visibly lower in the PL on a Monday/Thursday than they were in the CL on a Saturday night... and that's a FACT 😁 Would you have been so vocal about the survival of the top flight when Ipswich were running in the 2nd tier from 2011 to 2018, would you have been so insistent that your club should be forced to have moved up to save the top tier? I'd also be intrigued to know why you think the BAU model will work when it's been proven not to work over the last 20 years... and that was WITH a tv contract? Jason Pipe in last weeks Speedway Star says that since 2021, 53 British riders have stopped racing... 20 more stopped in 2019, and 23 stopped in 2018... Seven seasons, 96 riders . Many of whom will have stopped through a lack of a clear development plan and opportunity, and an insistence from NDL promoters that they have two bikes of a standard, and maintain them to that level, that wouldn't leave much change from £10k... And all to try and win a competition that even close followers of the sport would struggle to name the winners of... Hardly anyone outside of Speedway followers could even name who won the top two league competitions, never mind the 3rd one... The whole operating model is inherently flawed and needs a complete overhaul... They could start with every track running a 2nd half of say two groups of four riders, all getting four rides minimum each (from every starting gate), and then the top two from each group have a final... No teams, just individuals in "glorified practice" but with a competitive edge to it.. Hell. There could even be expenses paid to the eight riders and a modicum prize for the winner... Maybe even a national trophy award running through the season with a full final for the top 16 scorers? There has to be a line drawn in the sand now.. And everything then reset from there... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 58 minutes ago Report Share Posted 58 minutes ago 1 hour ago, Cross Roads said: Why not state by 2027 it will be one league and plans in place now for those who wish to participate. You don't see other sports changing rules yearly. My guess will be sticky plaster plans for 2026 same old and all moaning same old issues. It needs a complete re write that will clearly upset many but it needs to happen that will either push the sport on or kill it to death. There have been recently, quite few realistic posts made on this matter in particular the recognition of the number of competitive riders that are available for the existing teams to participate in two leagues or so long as the top league runs on Mondays & Thursday meaning that doubling up can facilitate a second tier for other clubs to compete in. However, when I read your suggestion of planning ahead for one league in 2027 I do wonder what it is that you don’t understand about rider availability & implications to a league structure. To be clear. one league removes doubling up meaning that even if the one league runs on Mondays & Thursdays there will be only seven or possibly eight teams around. I'm not sure that the instant culling of seven or eight of the existing clubs is what you want the BSPA to plan for in 2027 Is it? Please read the recent posts which detail the math of the situation which may help you grasp why two leagues are a key element of building a future for UK speedway - or if not seeing what could become a car crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 58 minutes ago Report Share Posted 58 minutes ago 2 minutes ago, mikebv said: Jason Pipe in last weeks Speedway Star says that since 2021, 53 British riders have stopped racing... 20 more stopped in 2019, and 23 stopped in 2018... Seven seasons, 96 riders . Many of whom will have stopped through a lack of a clear development plan and opportunity, and an insistence from NDL promoters that they have two bikes of a standard, and maintain them to that level, that wouldn't leave much change from £10k... And all to try and win a competition that even close followers of the sport would struggle to name the winners of... Hardly anyone outside of Speedway followers could even name who won the top two league competitions, never mind the 3rd one... The whole operating model is inherently flawed and needs a complete overhaul... They could start with every track running a 2nd half of say two groups of four riders, all getting four rides minimum each (from every starting gate), and then the top two from each group have a final... No teams, just individuals in "glorified practice" but with a competitive edge to it.. Hell. There could even be expenses paid to the eight riders and a modicum prize for the winner... Maybe even a national trophy award running through the season with a full final for the top 16 scorers? There has to be a line drawn in the sand now.. And everything then reset from there... Shocking numbers... hey but Dan Bewley & Robert Lambert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Roads Posted 47 minutes ago Report Share Posted 47 minutes ago 4 minutes ago, 1 valve said: There have been recently, quite few realistic posts made on this matter in particular the recognition of the number of competitive riders that are available for the existing teams to participate in two leagues or so long as the top league runs on Mondays & Thursday meaning that doubling up can facilitate a second tier for other clubs to compete in. However, when I read your suggestion of planning ahead for one league in 2027 I do wonder what it is that you don’t understand about rider availability & implications to a league structure. To be clear. one league removes doubling up meaning that even if the one league runs on Mondays & Thursdays there will be only seven or possibly eight teams around. I'm not sure that the instant culling of seven or eight of the existing clubs is what you want the BSPA to plan for in 2027 Is it? Please read the recent posts which detail the math of the situation which may help you grasp why two leagues are a key element of building a future for UK speedway - or if not seeing what could become a car crash. Ok may be 2027 a year or two to soon…But it is simply unsustainable with costs and revenue incoming to carryon you say riders, you are correct I say revenue… Get away from this Monday Thursday piece. What about one league then across all three at present. I know yeh… but standard of riders will be unbalanced then say a Leicester ride a Saturday night entice level 2 riders from Europe not riding in Poland.. get back to every week racing we all want the same thing to watch speedway in years ahead but needs an absolute c change or as many say it hits a wall and all we have is individual meetings as and when… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 39 minutes ago Report Share Posted 39 minutes ago 4 minutes ago, 1 valve said: There have been recently, quite few realistic posts made on this matter in particular the recognition of the number of competitive riders that are available for the existing teams to participate in two leagues or so long as the top league runs on Mondays & Thursday meaning that doubling up can facilitate a second tier for other clubs to compete in. However, when I read your suggestion of planning ahead for one league in 2027 I do wonder what it is that you don’t understand about rider availability & implications to a league structure. To be clear. one league removes doubling up meaning that even if the one league runs on Mondays & Thursdays there will be only seven or possibly eight teams around. I'm not sure that the instant culling of seven or eight of the existing clubs is what you want the BSPA to plan for in 2027 Is it? Please read the recent posts which detail the math of the situation which may help you grasp why two leagues are a key element of building a future for UK speedway - or if not seeing what could become a car crash. An eight team "top league" racing on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday depending on what is their best night to deliver the biggest crowds... The level being very much Championship standard, but if a team wants to run on Monday and Thursday so they can use a GP rider with a "high average" then they do so and just build the rest of the team around them... Five riders per team, no rising stars, use the Danish model so plenty of rides per meeting for each rider... Anyone riding in Poland or Denmark may miss away meetings from time to time so just use a guest. Like happens ad nauseum now... As long as they ride at home then, "where the money is made", is protected... Second tier, six teams, seven riders per team ran at a hybrid Championship/NDL level, (the current stand alone clubs and the NORA ones may also be interested)... Riders can double up with, again, a high average for the better ones, with the rest of the team built around them.. Two, two point reserves in every 2nd tier team, a) to give those starting out track time, and b) to help offset the costs of a DU'ing No1... Each club to run at least a 9 heat second half of those needing development.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted 34 minutes ago Report Share Posted 34 minutes ago 1 hour ago, TTT said: It will all depend on whether CHAMP Clubs are prepared to give up FRI & SAT Race Nights in favour of MON & THU Nights. That will allow for some flexibility on the Rider situation. Don’t think that will happen though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitch Posted 33 minutes ago Report Share Posted 33 minutes ago (edited) 3 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: If the bspl get there way, come march we are going to have our equivalent of the Cambridge Oxford boat race, belle vue v Ipswich Then the Top two in the play offs 🤣 Edited 32 minutes ago by Pitch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 21 minutes ago Report Share Posted 21 minutes ago 10 minutes ago, mikebv said: An eight team "top league" racing on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday depending on what is their best night to deliver the biggest crowds... The level being very much Championship standard, but if a team wants to run on Monday and Thursday so they can use a GP rider with a "high average" then they do so and just build the rest of the team around them... Five riders per team, no rising stars, use the Danish model so plenty of rides per meeting for each rider... Anyone riding in Poland or Denmark may miss away meetings from time to time so just use a guest. Like happens ad nauseum now... As long as they ride at home then, "where the money is made", is protected... Second tier, six teams, seven riders per team ran at a hybrid Championship/NDL level, (the current stand alone clubs and the NORA ones may also be interested)... Riders can double up with, again, a high average for the better ones, with the rest of the team built around them.. Two, two point reserves in every 2nd tier team, a) to give those starting out track time, and b) to help offset the costs of a DU'ing No1... Each club to run at least a 9 heat second half of those needing development.... Unfortunately, although you clearly mean well your suggestion just will not work due to a number of factors which are just not sustainable or deliverable. one being, a top league of eight teams will leave no riders to make up a second tier - thus at least no need to worry about the fixture chaos and the mass use of guests required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 17 minutes ago Report Share Posted 17 minutes ago 11 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Don’t think that will happen though I agree. Something has to give and a compromise has to be met between PREM & CHAMP Promoters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.