mac101 Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago (edited) 7 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said: If there's no premiership and the championship seemingly don't want to strengthen, my days of live speedway in the UK will be over. The odd meeting over BSN fair enough but I'm not paying £20+ to watch a couple of veterans, NDL riders and those who never made it, it doesn't float my boat. Amateur racing for free or £10 max then I would go. What veterans are we talking about ?The championship racing is a lot better than any premiership meetings I have seen ,maybe apart from the playoff final or maybe Poole home meetings 😉 Edited 5 hours ago by mac101 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 2 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said: That didn't make them unviable as businesses though - a profit can be made even on crowds of that size. Of course.. However .. Being profitable down to having great sponsorship doesn't help when developers move in... Having thousands in attendance every week does make a difference when you want to influence a local authority and, possibly even more importantly, having the local councillors of those thousands, having to listen to them and support their views... Or they get voted out.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 4 hours ago, mikebv said: Is there really a need for these tracks to reopen though? Where would the riders come from to fill the teams? Forget guesting, some would need to sign for two teams in the same league!!! Isn't the cold hard reality that these clubs closing has actually helped to keep others going? 100% there is a need, and I think you know this. Those 6 clubs are not coming back anytime soon (if at all) but if they did that would make 2 healthy leagues of 10 teams. There would undoubtedly need to be some form of doubling up until such a point that a properly implemented rider development plan started to produce league quality riders... instead of the lip service we pay to such development at the moment with clubs being allowed to stage just a single development meeting a year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 3 hours ago, frigbo said: The counter-argument could be that plenty of these had larger fanbases than some of those that currently still operate and therefore they are of more benefit to the sport in general. Perhaps if initially there are only sufficient riders for 9-10 teams there should be a tender process for licences in that league Win the bid and you are in and if you don't no league place for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 15 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Perhaps if initially there are only sufficient riders for 9-10 teams there should be a tender process for licences in that league Win the bid and you are in and if you don't no league place for you.... A "perfect scenario", I 100% agree.. However, some promoters pay for their lifestyle, and pension, off what they make from running a Speedway Team, (and fair play to them).... (And you can do that, just as well, in the 2nd tier, so why "move up"?).... Some promoters are quite happy to just be Speedway Promoters, running in front of any number of fans, as long as any losses are within budget... The bottom line is the operating model is now ran for the riders to earn money which justifies a significant outlay... Winning any of the competitions has very limited reward, either financially or publicity wise.. So why would I tender to, ultimately, increase my costs, if my business was sustainable, or even, very profitable..? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 5 hours ago, mikebv said: Is there really a need for these tracks to reopen though? Where would the riders come from to fill the teams? Forget guesting, some would need to sign for two teams in the same league!!! Isn't the cold hard reality that these clubs closing has actually helped to keep others going? Rye House was a track available 365 days of the year and had a history of producing young riders. How many young riders have been lost to the sport or never had the opportunity due to the ineptitude of the pair of idiots(Chapman and Godfrey) in charge at the time that saw the track unlawfully ripped out? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 hours ago, mikebv said: The developers moved in because they could... If those clubs had 5,000 a week then that would have been a very different scenario played out... I remember a photo of about 30 Swindon fans stood by a gate with some badly hand written signs... This was a "protest", and didn't "look good".. 5,000 fans, plus friends and acquaintances, walking through Swindon on a Saturday afternoon doing a "proper protest" and what has happened since might not have taken place... 5,000 fans and the landlords would get much more rent too, so maybe not so quick to "cash in".. Sadly, it took a long time for the custodians of the sport to "get it together" to try and defend the tracks, as a collective, against fhe developers.. The cynic in me could even think that some saw a closure as an opportunity to gain certain riders for fhe following season.. So many tracks lost in the past two decades, and, even now, 14 promoters seemingly cannot agree on how to run the sport, with some more clubs closing being a possible outcome... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 5 hours ago, mikebv said: Maybe, but there is still the fundamental question of.. "Where would the riders come from?"... If fhe likes of Swindon, Coventry, Wolves, and Peterborough came back over the next couple of years, all the tracks in the sport would need to use a level of rider that it appears some fans don't want to see used now.... Mike, You generally have your finger on the pulse and put forward some decent ideas, but it seems that you like many others have missed the current goings on in the Midlands, you mention Wolves and Coventry but missed out the 1 team that has irons in the fire in that they have land, and are making slow but sure progress in obtaining the necessary planning that is needed to progress further, so far as I am aware everything is in place to move ahead should those permissions eventually be forthcoming, take a look. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61550875127536 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 2 hours ago, 1 valve said: Yes, absolutely. The total reason why speedway is well and truly on the way down & out in the UK. We don't want the very best. mediocrity will do so long as me/I is ok - so need for top riders, no need for national sponsors, no need for national TV - no need for ambition. Least of all no need for anybody who wants to try to make the sport better. Ok the sport wont actually grow and other countries will provide a home for any British rider with talent and aspiration to rise through the crud of UK speedway and move on from these shores - but at we'll always have somebody willing to ride around some track some where and we can still call it speedway - just. Wanting the best isn’t wrong. Living beyond your means to achieve it is. And eventually you’ll just go bust. Sound familiar? The sport cannot sustain having the best riders here. You must surely see that. All this “not enough riders,” stuff is nonsense. There are plenty but because of self-created circumstances over a number of years they’re not at the level they once were. There’s not an overnight fix but the situation can be rectified over time. The answer is to cut cloth accordingly now to ensure the possibility of one day being able to have a thriving sport here again, including the best riders in the world hopefully. It might not happen, but it might. Carry on as we are and it is a certainty to not happen. Sometimes you have to go backwards before you can go forwards. Being solvent is a pretty good first step. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 5 hours ago, 1 valve said: It would be very much an option for the BSPL. As for any claims for "restraint of trade" That would be a non starter as the ACU have, like other national federations (FMN's) "legal standing" recognised by courts in countries where sanctioned events take place. By obtaining an FIM or ACU (FMN) license, riders commit by contract to a specific set of rules, which typically require them to seek "start permission" from their home FMN to compete in events abroad, even those which might be sanctioned by another FIM-recognized body. Competing in an entirely unsanctioned rival organisation's championship without any authorisation is a clear breach of these terms. Ultimately, the FIM and FMN's maintain control over the sport's structure by ensuring all participants operate within their approved framework, using the power to issue and globaly revoke licenses as the primary enforcement mechanism against rival organisations "poaching" their riders. Of course riders not holding a license issued by a FMN are completely free to ride wherever they so wish to do so, but would exclude FIM/FMN events. I'm well aware of all of that. When Isle of Wight started running under NORA all SCB/ACU licensed riders were threatened with having licences revoked. None actually were, many riders continued to ride for their League clubs, and some rode in International Grasstracks on the Continent. I wonder why that was? Similar to what happened in the 1970s when the ACU tried to ban MotoX riders from taking part in AMCA events and holding an ACU Licence, they failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 27 minutes ago, heathen52 said: Mike, You generally have your finger on the pulse and put forward some decent ideas, but it seems that you like many others have missed the current goings on in the Midlands, you mention Wolves and Coventry but missed out the 1 team that has irons in the fire in that they have land, and are making slow but sure progress in obtaining the necessary planning that is needed to progress further, so far as I am aware everything is in place to move ahead should those permissions eventually be forthcoming, take a look. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61550875127536 Hope it goes well... There must still be many people from that neck of the woods who still would return to support the team such was their local following... Bigger crowds than Wolves at Monmore wasn't it? Which suggests a huge potential.. Loved my visits to Cradley, especially the pork sandwiches!! Watched one of the best races in the thousands I have seen at Dudley Wood.. Jason Lyons led Billy Hamill for two and three quarter laps and Billy went under him on bend four, lap three.. Jason chased him and repassed him, bend two on the outside, on the last lap.. Not many races see a "repass" when a top rider is in front, without him making a mistake.. A cracking race track (even if the second turn had a bit of adverse camber), and always a very big crowd... Best Wishes... Edited 2 hours ago by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 2 hours ago, IainB said: 100% there is a need, and I think you know this. Those 6 clubs are not coming back anytime soon (if at all) but if they did that would make 2 healthy leagues of 10 teams. There would undoubtedly need to be some form of doubling up until such a point that a properly implemented rider development plan started to produce league quality riders... instead of the lip service we pay to such development at the moment with clubs being allowed to stage just a single development meeting a year. Goes back to an independent body Iain... The sport is desperate for a vision, and strategic journey to deliver that vision... Sadly, too many have no thoughts as to the overall growth of the sport, as, basically, they have no interest in growing it... It is just an "affordable" hobby for many.... And, no disrespect to them either, as they are never going to get rich off any financial reward for winning any UK Speedway title.. Three leagues exist, where many have no interest in winning, given the costs of doing so could mean they close down... Not a great starting point is it?.. Too many promoters have far too many different individual agendas, needs and wants, to ever make the sport (in the UK) successful... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 49 minutes ago, heathen52 said: Mike, You generally have your finger on the pulse and put forward some decent ideas, but it seems that you like many others have missed the current goings on in the Midlands, you mention Wolves and Coventry but missed out the 1 team that has irons in the fire in that they have land, and are making slow but sure progress in obtaining the necessary planning that is needed to progress further, so far as I am aware everything is in place to move ahead should those permissions eventually be forthcoming, take a look. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61550875127536 Oh that elusive planning permission, that indeed is the only thing stopping the whole thing at the moment, it’s a lot of money to put up so cradley have got to jump through all the hoops to make sure the planing permission application doesn’t fail and there are a lot of hoops Edited 2 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted 58 minutes ago Report Share Posted 58 minutes ago 5 hours ago, mikebv said: The developers moved in because they could... If those clubs had 5,000 a week then that would have been a very different scenario played out... I remember a photo of about 30 Swindon fans stood by a gate with some badly hand written signs... This was a "protest", and didn't "look good".. 5,000 fans, plus friends and acquaintances, walking through Swindon on a Saturday afternoon doing a "proper protest" and what has happened since might not have taken place... 5,000 fans and the landlords would get much more rent too, so maybe not so quick to "cash in".. Sadly, it took a long time for the custodians of the sport to "get it together" to try and defend the tracks, as a collective, against fhe developers.. The cynic in me could even think that some saw a closure as an opportunity to gain certain riders for fhe following season.. So many tracks lost in the past two decades, and, even now, 14 promoters seemingly cannot agree on how to run the sport, with some more clubs closing being a possible outcome... I agree. My experience of Swindon fans getting mobilised is a challenging one. There's still plenty of interest (petition over 2.300 signatures, social media groups very active) and they all want the sport back - until they have to actually do something to help make it happen! The sport's governing body are dragging their feet and doing next to nothing to help fight to resurrect these clubs or even participate in the ongoing battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 32 minutes ago Report Share Posted 32 minutes ago 24 minutes ago, frigbo said: The sport's governing body are dragging their feet and doing next to nothing to help fight to resurrect these clubs or even participate in the ongoing battles. That’s being generous to them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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