mikebv Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 7 minutes ago, Aries said: Think we’re on the same page here Speedy. I’m going to wait and see what the structure and team line ups are (if any) before I decide if I’ll attend or do something else on race night. Let’s just say it’s not looking promising! Cash saved I suppose. Use it to go over to Poland for a weekend of two, or take in a few GP's from around Europe... Proper Speedway, with relevance, resonance, consequence and jeopardy... And not the contrived, make it up as you go along nonsense, that the UK sadly has seemed quite content in delivering, for far too long.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 23 minutes ago, mikebv said: Use it to go over to Poland for a weekend of two, or take in a few GP's from around Europe... Proper Speedway, with relevance, resonance, consequence and jeopardy... And not the contrived, make it up as you go along nonsense, that the UK sadly has seemed quite content in delivering, for far too long.. Great idea, lets help them maintain their strangle hold on the sport as they dictate the continual demise of speedway by stipulating race days/nights and hold the riders to account!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 7 minutes ago, secsy1 said: Great idea, lets help them maintain their strangle hold on the sport as they dictate the continual demise of speedway by stipulating race days/nights and hold the riders to account!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes.... Because that is the only outcome isn't it? UK Speedway couldn't possibly be in charge of it's own destiny (ever), could it....? Or indeed, have been in charge of it's own destiny for the past 20 years or so using the millions put into it off Sky...? The current issues are not down to Poland, The GP's, Developers, or Landlords... Hell, let's even blame Covid too... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 4 hours ago, FAST GATER said: That's the problem it's ended up as a semi pro sport just the riders have not realised that yet ,even in the 70's Gulf league ( now PL ) riders except for the Mauger & Co had part/full time jobs ! 100% correct Look around the pits and see many a 3 point rider / Junior with a van that has "international Speedway rider" plastered over it, which means they rode a grass track or two in France when the van should really say "racing with the aid of Mum, Dad and family savings" Being semi professional is the only way forward to save speedway in this country 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WembleyLion Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Yes.... Because that is the only outcome isn't it? UK Speedway couldn't possibly be in charge of it's own destiny (ever), could it....? Or indeed, have been in charge of it's own destiny for the past 20 years or so using the millions put into it off Sky...? The current issues are not down to Poland, The GP's, Developers, or Landlords... Hell, let's even blame Covid too... You forgot to blame Brexit as well! 😄 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Yes.... Because that is the only outcome isn't it? UK Speedway couldn't possibly be in charge of it's own destiny (ever), could it....? Or indeed, have been in charge of it's own destiny for the past 20 years or so using the millions put into it off Sky...? The current issues are not down to Poland, The GP's, Developers, or Landlords... Hell, let's even blame Covid too... Indeed. It should have been invested in new stadia so as to provide punters with a better race-night experience, and moving away from the whim of a landlord. Then moving forward, invest in junior development that might have seen us unearth some medal winning Brits. The list goes on but sadly nobody grasped the bigger picture. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-38 Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, tonyd said: 100% correct Look around the pits and see many a 3 point rider / Junior with a van that has "international Speedway rider" plastered over it, which means they rode a grass track or two in France when the van should really say "racing with the aid of Mum, Dad and family savings" Being semi professional is the only way forward to save speedway in this country Fits well with it's semi-professional image as well. It's quite mad that we're expected to treat it as a professional sport when it's clearly run by amateurs! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 28 minutes ago, ouch said: Indeed. It should have been invested in new stadia so as to provide punters with a better race-night experience, and moving away from the whim of a landlord. Then moving forward, invest in junior development that might have seen us unearth some medal winning Brits. The list goes on but sadly nobody grasped the bigger picture. UK Speedway is still sat in a Leadership Bubble akin to other sports in the seventies, and early eighties ... That is to say, self made business people running their local sports team... My football team in the 70's had a man running it who owned several local butchers shops and the other team within the city had a chairman who sold TV's... Then Sky came along and these football teams brought in people from outside of the "Football Bubble"... I remember going to Old Trafford and the "club shop" was a pre fab building behind the Stretford End... In the 90's, proper retailers, and merchandisers, were brought in and a "Megastore" was designed which now turns over tens of millions.. The "Match Day Experience" became the buzz phrase, and experts in event management and customer relationships were brought in to organise and deliver it .. Marketing and Advertising experts were hired to create interest and awareness.. Speedway still has the equivalent of the local butcher and TV man running teams, well meaning people who obviously love the sport but cannot countenance bringing anyone else in from "outside" to advise them into the required directional journey for growth in the 21st Century... In particular, Rugby Union, Cricket and Football, all used to "self police" and keep everything "in house", then they realised the world was changing and they had to stop doing the same thing over and over again, and bring in people with different skill sets to help them move forward.. UK Speedway had a different idea... Edited 2 hours ago by mikebv 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago I agree that mistakes were made in the past and in particular the Sky income. But had the then BSPA taken the view that investing in property rather than riders I’m sure there would have been an almighty outcry. So you can’t have it both ways . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-38 Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 13 minutes ago, Glen said: I agree that mistakes were made in the past and in particular the Sky income. But had the then BSPA taken the view that investing in property rather than riders I’m sure there would have been an almighty outcry. So you can’t have it both ways . Did the BSPA invest in riders? I think it would be a different argument if we were saying they'd made decisions but got it wrong, but it seems like they didn't make any decisions at all, just kicked the can further down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 24 minutes ago, Glen said: I agree that mistakes were made in the past and in particular the Sky income. But had the then BSPA taken the view that investing in property rather than riders I’m sure there would have been an almighty outcry. So you can’t have it both ways . But to win what? Competition's that have a self inflicted operating model even wrestling would be amazed by.. It goes back to a lack of vision, and a lack of communication to the fans... And is still prevalent today... There should be at least an update as to where the whole thing currently stands, as a minimum, to its "customers".. And, if the plan is (once again for the umpteenth season), "make do and mend", then let your customers know the reasons why, but also, at the same time, tell them what your long term plan and vision for the sport is to stop living "hand to mouth" each year.. Let your customers in on your plans and they may accept a short term plan for longer term success, hell, who knows, maybe even canvas their opinions before making up your plans so they are truly engaged...? Market Research? Heaven forbid... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 1 hour ago, mikebv said: UK Speedway is still sat in a Leadership Bubble akin to other sports in the seventies, and early eighties ... That is to say, self made business people running their local sports team... My football team in the 70's had a man running it who owned several local butchers shops and the other team within the city had a chairman who sold TV's... Then Sky came along and these football teams brought in people from outside of the "Football Bubble"... I remember going to Old Trafford and the "club shop" was a pre fab building behind the Stretford End... In the 90's, proper retailers, and merchandisers, were brought in and a "Megastore" was designed which now turns over tens of millions.. The "Match Day Experience" became the buzz phrase, and experts in event management and customer relationships were brought in to organise and deliver it .. Marketing and Advertising experts were hired to create interest and awareness.. Speedway still has the equivalent of the local butcher and TV man running teams, well meaning people who obviously love the sport but cannot countenance bringing anyone else in from "outside" to advise them into the required directional journey for growth in the 21st Century... In particular, Rugby Union, Cricket and Football, all used to "self police" and keep everything "in house", then they realised the world was changing and they had to stop doing the same thing over and over again, and bring in people with different skill sets to help them move forward.. UK Speedway had a different idea... You are absolutely right but you missed one other issue, the fickle supporter who wants nothing more than league racing and as long as the punters are not flexible in there outlook then those who run the sport are not going to take financial risks by putting on something different. The only way to appeal to possibly a new generation of punter is to offer a multi discipline meeting with a mix of sports, short track, sidecar etc and revert to a thirteen heat formula for speedway and throw in a few one lap scratch races where betting might work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleze Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 30 minutes ago, 40-38 said: Did the BSPA invest in riders? I think it would be a different argument if we were saying they'd made decisions but got it wrong, but it seems like they didn't make any decisions at all, just kicked the can further down the road. Exactly, you’re not investing in self employed people on 1 year contracts, it’s not a football operating model. If you invested in stadia with the aim to make the said multi use, multi income.. then at least this is a plan/vision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleze Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 4 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: You are absolutely right but you missed one other issue, the fickle supporter who wants nothing more than league racing and as long as the punters are not flexible in there outlook then those who run the sport are not going to take financial risks by putting on something different. The only way to appeal to possibly a new generation of punter is to offer a multi discipline meeting with a mix of sports, short track, sidecar etc and revert to a thirteen heat formula for speedway and throw in a few one lap scratch races where betting might work. You don’t need additional stuff if the core product is good, you can add the extras, whatever they may be further down the line. Can’t they have an area where a mechanic, strips and builds a bike, something informative, kids sit on it after, photo ops with the team or individual riders pre or post meet/signatures. Build some affinity, something engaging close up. It’s not going to add numbers, but surely it’s a small win at no cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-38 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 4 minutes ago, Littleze said: Exactly, you’re not investing in self employed people on 1 year contracts, it’s not a football operating model. If you invested in stadia with the aim to make the said multi use, multi income.. then at least this is a plan/vision. Absolutely. The other option would have been investing in training tracks and training schools, employing trainers, bulk buying equipment to get people started, paying for opportunities for young riders to compete abroad. Really they should have been able to do both, but ended up doing neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 42 minutes ago, 40-38 said: Did the BSPA invest in riders? I think it would be a different argument if we were saying they'd made decisions but got it wrong, but it seems like they didn't make any decisions at all, just kicked the can further down the road. They paid them to come to the UK with wages that competed with Poland and Sweden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 4 minutes ago, 40-38 said: Absolutely. The other option would have been investing in training tracks and training schools, employing trainers, bulk buying equipment to get people started, paying for opportunities for young riders to compete abroad. Really they should have been able to do both, but ended up doing neither. Nope couldn’t do both so as riders were the product that’s where the money went in the main. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-38 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 2 minutes ago, Littleze said: You don’t need additional stuff if the core product is good, you can add the extras, whatever they may be further down the line. Can’t they have an area where a mechanic, strips and builds a bike, something informative, kids sit on it after, photo ops with the team or individual riders pre or post meet/signatures. Build some affinity, something engaging close up. It’s not going to add numbers, but surely it’s a small win at no cost. Engagement with riders is something Speedway is quite good at, to a point, but it does seem to be hit and miss with some riders. Case in point is after a meeting at Leicester, Ryan Douglas always goes along the line of people after the interviews, poses for photos, signs things, shakes hands and the young kids absolutely love it. Heck I'm 40 and I love it. However the rest generally bugger off back to the pits as soon as it's done, and very rarely if at all do you ever get to meet the opposition unless you're fortunate enough to be in the pits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-38 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 9 minutes ago, Glen said: They paid them to come to the UK with wages that competed with Poland and Sweden. But that's the trouble isn't it? Where did that get us? One of the things that blights the sport for many people is doubling up and guests, but all we've done is pay silly money to someone to come over for a year and sod off again. I know I'm likely alone in this, but I personally don't see losing GP riders as a disaster, but what is a disaster is not having a good enough production line of young riders coming through to fill team places. It should be an embarrassment of riches rather than a desperate scrabble to scratch teams together. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 53 minutes ago Report Share Posted 53 minutes ago 37 minutes ago, Glen said: Nope couldn’t do both so as riders were the product that’s where the money went in the main. And boy did those lads have a hoover up , ultimately you can't blame them as it could all be over for them tomorrow through a bad smash but I'm sure if push came to shove they would have taken a pay increase of 50k on what they had the year before but most of the promoters blew their share of the annual windfall on a 100k increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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