mikebv Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 36 minutes ago, 1 valve said: If indeed it turns out that the role of CEO (incumbent Phil Morris) has been made redundant due to a lack of money then it’s difficult to see how an “independent body/person” that is often raised as a solution on this forum, could be funded to run the sport. That said, the sport is already “run” by a (supposedly) independent body - the SCB - which by and large get their objectives done and funded by license & similar fees. Which brings the conversation back to the BSPL & the intransigent hobbyist majority within. Their actions continue to block progress of the sport (to now include the removal of a CEO) simply because they have little or no intention or capability of implementing change which may (would) disrupt their hobby. Until, somehow, there is sufficient momentum by a group of well funded vested promoters to bring about long term change, then worryingly, we fans need to understand that whilst they remain in situ the hobbyist will continue to rule. Sadly, the operating model has been allowed to evolve into what it currently is... Meaning neither league runs with any real prestige or financial rewards... Win your league? Yay!... Finish bottom of your league? Oh well, there's always next year... Many meetings are ran with almost zero jeopardy or consequence, which is "perfect" for those promoters who don't want any pressure... "Having to win" to keep a crowd level, costs money, time and brings with it some anxiety... The result of the meeting being, for a good number of promoters, "perfection" if it is a 46-44 win.... And, given that lack of prestige, and financial gain available, I 100% get their outlook... Sadly, it appears only us fans that want to see the sport grow, however, to get that growth means a completely new operating model, but, to bring in a "proper" operating model costs money.... A proper vicious circle... You cannot have jeopardy, consequence, credibility, integrity and prestige in victory, without having some serious financial rewards for success, which in turn delivers big publicity... However. You will never get those serious financial rewards, and big publicity, and prestige for victory, by running meetings without jeopardy, consequence, credibility, and integrity... A real race to the bottom currently... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelinho Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago The post above has it nailed. If there is no real reward for winning, and nothing really missed by losing, there is no incentive to invest more time and energy, so most don’t. This is meant to be (and is) the pinnacle of the sport in the U.K., but it looks more like Sunday league football in a dead-end division. The idea of paying BSN to stream for free on YouTube sounds nice, but I see two issues. One, would they have the capacity to stream more? Two, it would present a risk to their business model, and given they are probably the most sustainable entity in British Speedway right now, why would they want to take the risk? I don’t see the incentive for them. The Premiership clubs barely bothered to support a media day, so why volunteer to compromise a working model? I think the promoters need to show a lot more before you do that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago 14 minutes ago, Noelinho said: The post above has it nailed. If there is no real reward for winning, and nothing really missed by losing, there is no incentive to invest more time and energy, so most don’t. This is meant to be (and is) the pinnacle of the sport in the U.K., but it looks more like Sunday league football in a dead-end division. The idea of paying BSN to stream for free on YouTube sounds nice, but I see two issues. One, would they have the capacity to stream more? Two, it would present a risk to their business model, and given they are probably the most sustainable entity in British Speedway right now, why would they want to take the risk? I don’t see the incentive for them. The Premiership clubs barely bothered to support a media day, so why volunteer to compromise a working model? I think the promoters need to show a lot more before you do that. Open the track, hold the meeting, hopefully win closely, then lock up the track when the last one is out... Rinse and Repeat two weeks later, (maybe), with pretty much exactly the same fans in attendance... Find a guest for someone missing in Poland or Denmark, or is injured/banned over here but not anywhere else.... Aim to win at home to keep your own crowd attending, with all your riders in attendance... Agree to ride away on nights you know your No1 can't be there and book a guest instead... Don't be too successful as it can close you down... UK Speedway... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago 19 hours ago, mikebv said: For me, "the hobbyists" are those who, year in, year out, are quite happy to lose a budgeted amount of money... League position, and aspirational growth of their club and sport, has little meaning for them, just getting to the end of the season "within budget" is their sole ambition.. Usually ex riders or ex sponsors of retired riders, who come into promoting, replacing someone with a similar background, and just enter the "Speedway Bubble Echo Chamber" knowing no different, so just carry on doing the same old, same old that has been the way "for a long, long time"... Ensuring riders get plenty of rides is an aim for some of them, given many will be mates of current riders, and, with many being ex riders themselves, they will have a certain level of empathy for those who ride the bikes... However if by doing this it mpacts the credibility, prestige or authenticity of the sport, it doesn't really matter, hence doubling up and guesting is rife, without any aim to stop either... Which all means that UK Speedway looks more like a "Gentlemen's Club" than a bona fide professional team sport, with many within it, I would imagine, enjoying more the social aspect of being in charge of their clubs, without needing the pressure of leading a "proper" professional sport, that has jeopardy, consequence, and high rewards , but, inevitably, the high pressure that comes with it.. Rinse and Repeat Ad Infinitum... But at all levels of organised sport, you're going to get a large and probably growing contingent amongst the owners, directors, sponsors, benefactors etc who do it to help fulfil their own ego and vanity, and/or have vested, personal interests as their main motivation such as the promotion of their own business interests. Being able to brag at their golf club on on expensive holidays about how much money they're putting into whatever sport club as way of saying "look how rich i am, aren't I wonderful". I don't know if these come into the category of "hobbyists" (or vice-versa). Is it actually possible to have these kind on involvements whilst being entirely altruistic and its probably impossible to differentiate - motivation for involvement differing vastly. So in terms of the owners of UK speedway clubs, is it more a case of those who behave primarily with a narrow-focus, versus those who are more "bigger picture" oriented, irrespective of whether they could be classified as "hobbyists" or "business focussed", or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Comet Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago Weve just been going round in circles with these posts for the past 4 months now havent we.. I know its opinion and its a forum, its what its for. But it does get tedious reading the same old stuff, just re-worded. Please dont insult me by saying "well dont read it then if you dont like it".. its a forum, we're gonna read all the posts arent we, to keep up to date. All the best guys, David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheese Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 14 hours ago, flagrag said: Just isn’t the money for the role but hopefully Phil will still be involved in a more advisory role and possibly on a pay as you go basis . If the TV deal had come off he would have been very involved. i still do not agree that clubs didn’t take the initiative of broadcasting one meeting a week free on You Tube to satisfy sponsors and try to attract more new fans all they had to do was pay the production costs which were minimal compared to the full tv production costs. The best way would have been to pay BSN to produce one meeting a week for free YT broadcast as that would then give them the opportunity to upsell their subscription service of people want to see more and could have sold race sponsorship for the season Typical short-sighted view. County cricket continue to stream every game for free on YouTube, last week's first round of the season getting just under 1.4 million views across the four days. Speedway is similar in terms of having regular natural breaks in play, it would be a perfect opportunity to sell sponsorship for between races. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago Phil Morris has the sport at heart and wasn't allowed to do what he wanted with British Speedway by the clowns who run the sport , mainly that w anchor Godfrey at Scunthorpe. How the hell he got into such a high up position is anybodys guess. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, The Cheese said: Typical short-sighted view. County cricket continue to stream every game for free on YouTube, last week's first round of the season getting just under 1.4 million views across the four days. Speedway is similar in terms of having regular natural breaks in play, it would be a perfect opportunity to sell sponsorship for between races. Its just difficult to comprehend why the BSPL fail to grasp modern streaming media and the benefits available to UK speedway for a modest investment. Clubs working independently of each other at the local level is just plainly inefficient from a marketing and promotional standpoint. Hopefully (maybe) the more recent promoters to the sport may bring something different to the table and in doing so, not let the hobbyist "take" without "first putting in". Edited 5 hours ago by 1 valve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagrag Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 6 hours ago, Hamish McRaker said: Just to clarify please flagrag - slightly confusing use of "negatives" in your post - are you basically saying that clubs declined the YT opportunity despite low cost and the advantages? (as a rather old analogue person this stuff can baffle me a bit!). Thanks Yes a plan was put into place to broadcast one meeting Live for free on You Tube on Monday evenings to try and raise the appeal of the sport and could sell some sponsorship as well. This was decided against as clubs would have had to pay for this so as usual looked at the negatives instead of thinking let’s try it cost wise probably less for a full season than £25,00 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanBrannan Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 hours ago, The Cheese said: Typical short-sighted view. County cricket continue to stream every game for free on YouTube, last week's first round of the season getting just under 1.4 million views across the four days. Speedway is similar in terms of having regular natural breaks in play, it would be a perfect opportunity to sell sponsorship for between races. County cricket is supported by an ECB marketing budget of 40 million pounds shared across the whole of Cricket. Speedway has hardly any central marketing budget. That would be more than the whole of world speedway combined budget I would imagine..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, flagrag said: Yes a plan was put into place to broadcast one meeting Live for free on You Tube on Monday evenings to try and raise the appeal of the sport and could sell some sponsorship as well. This was decided against as clubs would have had to pay for this so as usual looked at the negatives instead of thinking let’s try it cost wise probably less for a full season than £25,00 The reach of YT is literally billions, with tens of millions in the UK... And you even can make money out of views and subscribers... With their algorithm sending you into similar type of videos.... A perfect media for UK Speedway to "piggy back" off other more popular sports, either two wheel, four wheel, or local professional teams in football... "How much?" No chance, we have to pay our riders (who hardly anyone in the UK have heard of, and will never hear of), around three million quid a season between them"... An absolute crackers business model... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, IanBrannan said: County cricket is supported by an ECB marketing budget of 40 million pounds shared across the whole of Cricket. Speedway has hardly any central marketing budget. That would be more than the whole of world speedway combined budget I would imagine..! Isn't this one of the purposes of Speedway Futures Ltd? Creating a central marketing budget which, had the Sky money been used sensibly, would have accrued value by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago Was just thinking today that British speedway has made an awful lot of mistakes over the last few decades and pretty much by a stroke of luck or tolerance got away with them to a large extent but right now it feels like all those bad mistakes are biting the sport on the arse, chickens coming home to roost and all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalCastles Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago As a Cricket & Glamorgan fan. We are one of the lowest supported counties in the domestic game. County Championship cricket gets somewhere between 200-300 people on a normal day. I don't think the ECB really do anything to promote the Youtube Streams, and i don't think Glamorgan do any real marketing or promotion that incurs costs. It's listed on there Website, mentioned in Match announcements on Socials and by Commentators. The stream, uses 2 fixed cameras (manned), with existing commentary from BBC Radio Wales. They make use of the Youtube Algorithms, that ensure it's the first thing that will appear when a game is on. Almost certain that it pays for itself through advertising exposure. I don't think it's done any damage to any county, rather it has ensured that counties have exposure to a wider and growing audience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelinho Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago Today I, a lifelong cricket fan, have learned that county cricket is streamed on YouTube, from a speedway forum. Glad to see the ECB spend that £40million budget just as badly as others do. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 42 minutes ago Report Share Posted 42 minutes ago Hi Flagrag are you in a position to reveal if anything positive at all has happened from the Speedway Futures side of things yet obviously no issues if you prefer to stay stum if it puts you in a difficult position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 20 minutes ago Report Share Posted 20 minutes ago 20 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Hi Flagrag are you in a position to reveal if anything positive at all has happened from the Speedway Futures side of things yet obviously no issues if you prefer to stay stum if it puts you in a difficult position. ... still waiting for the "wow" news ⏳️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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