Hawk127 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, PersonalResponsibility said: What's the difference between Vatcher and Nicki? Take out the 3x World titles, 4x World Cups and countless individual achievements, there's very little in it. Vatcher has and always will be a waste of space. Sour faced representative of Arena Essex he has simply enhanced his reputation as a pip squeak who should step aside as he adds nothing to the sport at any level. Compare him to promoters of years gone by and his contributions are like pissing in the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJC Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 you can tell Cierniak has had Zmarzlik in his corner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 31 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Massive gulf between Poland & Denmark and the other two, far more experience and laps on Polish tracks in the two strongest teams to be fair. Perhaps a Polish track isn't the best idea for a venue, it clearly wasn't to generate a crowd. Difficult to criticise the younger Brits but feel that Thompson and Flint should be getting amongst it a bit more. Denmark going to be a hell of a side in 5 years time. Reality check for Brits.Now Dan T should concentrate on Uk instead of sitting in the Pits in Poland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 Some talent on show between the Danes and Poles,given their age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 The GB side really need to have some serious training installed into them and some competitive racing attitude rather than being also rans. The Polish riders seemingly are chasing every point, are disciplined and have a commitment which simply does not exist within the GB camp. Just watch Polish speedway at every level and the commitment at every level chasing points and the appetite to succeed versus the let’s turn up and ride attitude that is predominate in the UK. Time not only for an independent body to run UK speedway but time for someone to get a grip on the entire structure and introduce changes at multiple levels so that the next generation of riders can shine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Some talent on show between the Danes and Poles,given their age. Yes they certainly have some racers who have the desire to succeed but the rest are really so far behind it is painful to watch. Thankfully we can watch meetings from Poland and see those European riders who want go the extra mile. GB speedway is the dinosaur of European racing. Get rid of those in charge and start thinking outside the box but it won’t happen because to most in charge it is a hobby not a business or a competitive sport it simply satisfies the egos of the club owners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: The GB side really need to have some serious training installed into them and some competitive racing attitude rather than being also rans. The Polish riders seemingly are chasing every point, are disciplined and have a commitment which simply does not exist within the GB camp. Just watch Polish speedway at every level and the commitment at every level chasing points and the appetite to succeed versus the let’s turn up and ride attitude that is predominate in the UK. Time not only for an independent body to run UK speedway but time for someone to get a grip on the entire structure and introduce changes at multiple levels so that the next generation of riders can shine. People have been saying the GB speedway has to go back to basics to develop young talent, but it looks along way off and a hard road.Brennan,Flint and Thompson were hopefuls but it’s slow going for them. Edited August 22 by Fromafar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 14 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Reality check for Brits.Now Dan T should concentrate on Uk instead of sitting in the Pits in Poland. Not sure its a 'reality check' as I imagine its going just as people expected. The only way we are going to get near Poland and Denmark is for our youngsters to get affiliated and riding for Extraliga clubs; Cairns and Rushen have their feet in the door and if they have what it takes they will improve quickly. The next batch whoever the are need to do the same (Norman, Binns, Bovington, Ralph?) so that riding Polish tracks is second nature and not alien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 8 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Some talent on show between the Danes and Poles,given their age. Yes they certainly have some racers who have the desire to succeed but the rest are really so far behind it is painful to watch. Thankfully we can watch meetings from Poland and see those European riders who want go the extra mile. GB speedway is the dinosaur of European racing. Get rid of those in charge and start thinking outside the box but it won’t happen because to most in charge it is a hobby not a business or a competitive sport it simply satisfies the egos of the club owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 How does Cairns get all his rides surely Harrison should have got another ride,nothing too lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 7 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Not sure its a 'reality check' as I imagine its going just as people expected. The only way we are going to get near Poland and Denmark is for our youngsters to get affiliated and riding for Extraliga clubs; Cairns and Rushen have their feet in the door and if they have what it takes they will improve quickly. The next batch whoever the are need to do the same (Norman, Binns, Bovington, Ralph?) so that riding Polish tracks is second nature and not alien. Would agree reality check is not the right word.We are just not good enough,but no doubt 3rd Place will be a “wonderful” result as usual. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 15 minutes ago, Fromafar said: People have been saying the GB speedway has to go back to basics to develop young talent, but it looks along way off and a hard road.Brennan,Flint and Thompson were hopefuls but it’s slow going for them. Yep so far off the scale but we do have some good riders who in the rights hands will make it. The problems are that we have no one with the real experience to coach them. They need discipline, training and hard graft but no one is setting down the minimum standards to achieve success and you have a few riders whose egos do match the skills and have not done the ground work to see them become competitive. Flashy vans and expensive kit does not make a decent rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 The real thing next could be just as embarrassing if Bewley isn’t fit to ride.Lambert v the World.😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neila Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 4 hours ago, Fromafar said: The real thing next could be just as embarrassing if Bewley isn’t fit to ride.Lambert v the World.😂 Even if fit to ride who are gonna be the other 2 in the team and reserve ? Maybe put Dan at reserve if fit but not quite race ready ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 4 hours ago, Neila said: Even if fit to ride who are gonna be the other 2 in the team and reserve ? Maybe put Dan at reserve if fit but not quite race ready ? I think Flint has to be in after his British Final showing and score last night. I'd probably go Wright and Ellis as the other two. We are coming fourth whatever in all likelihood but its too early to be throwing youngsters in 'for the experience'. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 12 hours ago, Hawk127 said: The GB side really need to have some serious training installed into them and some competitive racing attitude rather than being also rans. The Polish riders seemingly are chasing every point, are disciplined and have a commitment which simply does not exist within the GB camp. Just watch Polish speedway at every level and the commitment at every level chasing points and the appetite to succeed versus the let’s turn up and ride attitude that is predominate in the UK. Time not only for an independent body to run UK speedway but time for someone to get a grip on the entire structure and introduce changes at multiple levels so that the next generation of riders can shine. To be fair to the GB lads, there is a world of difference in the intensity level required of young Polish riders coming through... It is more akin to Academy's in Football over here, whereby non stop scrutiny and pressure is part and parcel of their development growth... Over here, anyone with even a modicum of capability to ride a Speedway bike can be in tier one very quickly at reserve, and tier two as a Second String, or even a Heat Leader.. With neither league over here having anywhere near the same level of expectation and pressure... Basically, you can have a job for decades in the UK by being distinctly average for every single year of that career.. These lads need to test themselves against the best, and quickly, as the talent pool in Poland keeps riders of a very decent level constantly coming through, (with Denmark also looking like they have found a fair few potential top level riders in the future).. The bottom line is, the UK is more an opportunity to earn money riding your Speedway bike, rather than being something that has relevance and prestige like it has in Poland... In Poland "winning" is the most important thing, and the UK lads need to learn that mentality... Some, over here, seem quite content just being a Speedway Rider... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 13 hours ago, Fromafar said: Would agree reality check is not the right word.We are just not good enough,but no doubt 3rd Place will be a “wonderful” result as usual. Certainly not prepared enough. Four out of our five riders turned out for their Championship sides on Friday evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: To be fair to the GB lads, there is a world of difference in the intensity level required of young Polish riders coming through... It is more akin to Academy's in Football over here, whereby non stop scrutiny and pressure is part and parcel of their development growth... Over here, anyone with even a modicum of capability to ride a Speedway bike can be in tier one very quickly at reserve, and tier two as a Second String, or even a Heat Leader.. With neither league over here having anywhere near the same level of expectation and pressure... Basically, you can have a job for decades in the UK by being distinctly average for every single year of that career.. These lads need to test themselves against the best, and quickly, as the talent pool in Poland keeps riders of a very decent level constantly coming through, (with Denmark also looking like they have found a fair few potential top level riders in the future).. The bottom line is, the UK is more an opportunity to earn money riding your Speedway bike, rather than being something that has relevance and prestige like it has in Poland... In Poland "winning" is the most important thing, and the UK lads need to learn that mentality... Some, over here, seem quite content just being a Speedway Rider... Which is exactly why, if we want GB to be successful, we need our youngsters over in Poland as soon as possible and being part of their club set up, like Cairns and Rushen. Given time their improvement will be enormous as long as they get rides, the U24 league and training sessions will be important as well as first team opportunities. If that means ditching our Championship in 2027 then so be it. Cairns will have learned much more in one meeting gor ZG than anything he has done for Poole this season. The next 2-3 years are critical in their development, look how that crop of young Danes have come on with the correct treatment. Thompson and Brennan unfortunately seem to have missed the boat now and are suffering from being left on the sidelines in Poland, hopefully Flint might get picked up for 2027 (I believe he has one U24 left?) by a Polish club in the top two tiers as has shown glimpses this season of breaking through. There needs to be a plan for the next crop as our three leagues don't work on their own, its been said for years but our youngsters need much more exposure to the big, slick, fast circuits and all that that involves. Edited August 23 by Bagpuss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, mikebv said: To be fair to the GB lads, there is a world of difference in the intensity level required of young Polish riders coming through... It is more akin to Academy's in Football over here, whereby non stop scrutiny and pressure is part and parcel of their development growth... Over here, anyone with even a modicum of capability to ride a Speedway bike can be in tier one very quickly at reserve, and tier two as a Second String, or even a Heat Leader.. With neither league over here having anywhere near the same level of expectation and pressure... Basically, you can have a job for decades in the UK by being distinctly average for every single year of that career.. These lads need to test themselves against the best, and quickly, as the talent pool in Poland keeps riders of a very decent level constantly coming through, (with Denmark also looking like they have found a fair few potential top level riders in the future).. The bottom line is, the UK is more an opportunity to earn money riding your Speedway bike, rather than being something that has relevance and prestige like it has in Poland... In Poland "winning" is the most important thing, and the UK lads need to learn that mentality... Some, over here, seem quite content just being a Speedway Rider... Mediocre riders in the scheme of things are earning good money in GB.Whilst they would like to ride in Poland they can’t hold down aTeam place with the other talent coming along from Poland and other Countries.Like you say just content to ride their bike.Fair play to them if they are making good money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 30 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Which is exactly why, if we want GB to be successful, we need our youngsters over in Poland as soon as possible and being part of their club set up, like Cairns and Rushen. Given time their improvement will be enormous as long as they get rides, the U24 league and training sessions will be important as well as first team opportunities. If that means ditching our Championship in 2027 then so be it. Cairns will have learned much more in one meeting gor ZG than anything he has done for Poole this season. The next 2-3 years are critical in their development, look how that crop of young Danes have come on with the correct treatment. Thompson and Brennan unfortunately seem to have missed the boat now and are suffering from being left on the sidelines in Poland, hopefully Flint might get picked up for 2027 (I believe he has one U24 left?) by a Polish club in the top two tiers as has shown glimpses this season of breaking through. There needs to be a plan for the next crop as our three leagues don't work on their own, its been said for years but our youngsters need much more exposure to the big, slick, fast circuits and all that that involves. Cairns and Rushen have their foot in the door and appear to have the right contacts.They will need too improve quickly to stay in contention though.Dan Thompson has struggle with injury most of last season and this season but is still young if he can recover his confidence.All the other British talent are along way off age wise.IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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