Why No Speedway Track...?

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

There is no way I would involve myself with the acu if I were to run a track but not wanting to enter the league. There are plenty of alternative affiliations and I'd opt for any of them rather than the acu. You can just about get insurance on your own but at quite a cost.

The insurance isn't for the riders so insisting they carry their own is a non starter.

Therefore, I presume the insurance is for the spectators/staff/mechanics. Moto-X and Grass Track meetings must have insurance. Surely a non-BSPA or ACU affiliated set-up, could obtain insurance from the same source the BSPA and ACU use?

[Vince 9,458]

You can but its much cheaper and easier to do so through one of the affiliations such as the MCF, ACU, YSMA etc. To do it yourself is a pain with deciding on rules and regulations for absolutely everything while the affiliations already have those in place. I've been through the process for a Motox practice track about 15 years ago and it was difficult then and I am sure it is far more so now. The insurance is broadly third party and indemnity.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

Of course they can. They are the official organisation, under the supervision of the ACU, who are entitled to run speedway in this country. Are you really suggesting that other cowboy black tracks, with amateur officials and no insurance, should be able to hold their own meetings ?

Plenty of motorsport events are held outwith the jurisdiction of the official governing bodies, and the trend is increasing of late. There's a lot of scaremongering about untrained officials and lack of insurance etc.. but even officially licensed circuits can and indeed do run both sanctioned and unsanctioned events. I'd agree it's easier to get insurance if events are run under the auspices of some sort of sanctioning body, but there are alternatives to the ACU and MSA.

 

Whilst I'd agree that official governing bodies do perform some useful roles, in my experience they've lost sight of the realities of the amateur levels of motorsport and expect everything to be run along the lines of F1 or MotoGP. I therefore don't think that having alternatives is at all unreasonable, because at amateur levels the option may in some cases be no motorsport at all.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

Below is a link to a video, taken from Youtube. Lydd speedway, July 2015.

 

Just copy below and place in Google. I think they have a nice track and appear to have a nice set up.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai8whLEbdhA

[iris123 20,979]

Below is a link to a video, taken from Youtube. Lydd speedway, July 2015.

 

Just copy below and place in Google. I think they have a nice track and appear to have a nice set up.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai8whLEbdhA

Agree it looks a nice track and set up,but there are about 50 people there and I guess most are friends and family.Just like a Danish 1st division meeting,only the standard of racing is much poorer.It is hard to charge people for that level.In Denmark those meetings are free

 

I don't disagree with the idea.The problem with running outside of the BSPA/ACU is where are the riders coming from?They would be amateurs I guess.OK like scb said the locals wouldn't know the difference at first.But after a meeting or two you can at that level have a big difference and see that some guys or girls can hardly get round the bends and it doesn't really have much of a future....Maybe looking at the big picture of this whole venture they could afford to run meetings at a loss though,and they can attract a few youngsters who would progress to league speedway......

[Tsunami 10,219]

Plenty of motorsport events are held outwith the jurisdiction of the official governing bodies, and the trend is increasing of late. There's a lot of scaremongering about untrained officials and lack of insurance etc.. but even officially licensed circuits can and indeed do run both sanctioned and unsanctioned events. I'd agree it's easier to get insurance if events are run under the auspices of some sort of sanctioning body, but there are alternatives to the ACU and MSA.

 

Whilst I'd agree that official governing bodies do perform some useful roles, in my experience they've lost sight of the realities of the amateur levels of motorsport and expect everything to be run along the lines of F1 or MotoGP. I therefore don't think that having alternatives is at all unreasonable, because at amateur levels the option may in some cases be no motorsport at all.

Yes, but the whole thing brings in what are called 'black' tracks. In 'black' events the same standards and provisions are not usually prevalent and in say dog racing, standards and medical provisions are or were not up to scratch and inadequate. These are the problems with black events. Who says what is safe and fair, and the promoters probably just run it for the profits made by not paying for provisions not provided. Where do the competitors come from. If they are motor cyclist trying a form of speedway, Ok, so be it on their heads. If he is a licensed rider to a BSPA run team, he will have signed a contract to ride exclusively for them, hence the reason why guest rides have to be asked for via the promotion. What would you think if you had a rider under contract, and he gets hurt riding in a black meeting, damaged his gear and is unable to ride for you because he is injured. If he is uninsured, or has poor insurance, it is bound to impact on the time he is going to be out or affects the quality of his gear that he can't repair/replace back to the original standard. The only time alternative promoters could be allowed to run meetings, is if they maintain the same standards(including air fence, etc), same medical facilities, and recognised and trained officials who know what they are doing, and have the appropriate insurance for riders, officials and public liability.

 

I seem to remember the worrying comments that Oxford speedway fans made on here when a Dirt Track meeting was held at Oxford, and most of the likes of the fence had been removed after closure of the speedway there.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

Agree it looks a nice track and set up,but there are about 50 people there and I guess most are friends and family.Just like a Danish 1st division meeting,only the standard of racing is much poorer.It is hard to charge people for that level.In Denmark those meetings are free

 

I don't disagree with the idea.The problem with running outside of the BSPA/ACU is where are the riders coming from?They would be amateurs I guess.OK like scb said the locals wouldn't know the difference at first.But after a meeting or two you can at that level have a big difference and see that some guys or girls can hardly get round the bends and it doesn't really have much of a future....Maybe looking at the big picture of this whole venture they could afford to run meetings at a loss though,and they can attract a few youngsters who would progress to league speedway......

The riders at Lydd are amateurs. They do have the odd meeting, but just for fun. The main purpose is training. I believe they do have ex riders riding there and ex riders helping out and giving advice. Yes, it is a 'track in a field', but it gives a lot of people a lot of pleasure, which in my opinion, is what it is all about.

[25yearfan 476]

I agree that had Tim Stone still been alive today then Newport speedway would still be running!

 

That said as I've argued with Vince on here in the past about, Tim Stones rude abrupt non delegating nature with fans, sponsors and track staff played a massive part in Newport speedways decline because he drove hundreds of people away from the club!

 

I'm aware that after a club opens or reopens, the novelty factor means that interest is high and this eventually wanes over the years but in Newports case this was accelerated much faster than it should have been!

 

The Mallets indeed tryed but so much damage had been done by that stage. But in their case, in the end didn't want their egos damaged by selling much of the stadium for scrap instead of letting Phil Morris have a go at it, a guy in my opinion could have made a go of it!

 

Newport speedway at Queensway Meadows to me is a very frustrating tale cause it was purpose built for speedway with little restrictions in an area that had a decent hardcore support.

 

What has become of the land the stadium once stood on?

[uk_martin 1,606]

Yes, but the whole thing brings in what are called 'black' tracks.

 

The one obvious difficulty in running a speedway meeting at a "black track" is who is going to referee it? All referees belong to the SCB, and of course that's the organisation that is being by-passed,

 

So if it's going to be done amateurishly, then why not pass on the job of officiating to a committee of BSF "scribes"? After all, who knows better than the people on here?

[SCB 0]

What has become of the land the stadium once stood on?

I've just tweeted a couple of photos of the "stadium" as it stands now.

 

https://twitter.com/shawncbrown/status/687401891169480704

https://twitter.com/shawncbrown/status/687401929970987008

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

Where do the competitors come from.

Licensed competitors can compete in both sanctioned and unsanctioned motor sport events. As with anything in motor sport, the competitor does so at their own risk, but one assumes most of the competitors at these sort of events would be amateurs anyway.

 

I fully agree that running under an official body should be preferable, and my own take is that unsanctioned events often run under the technical and safety regulations developed by the official body anyway, which I think is slightly immoral. Equally though, for amateur events the permit costs are pretty high (in our case one third of our entry fees), the MSA didn't even have proper regulations to cover our specific discipline and we had to develop a lot of them ourselves, and then they put roadblocks in the way of running events on spurious safety grounds (one being that it's effectively impossible to run events under floodlights). There's all sorts of other daft regulations about incompatibility of officials which make sense at higher levels, but fail to take into account that amateur events usually have a shortage of volunteers, and that most of the time it's competitors organising things themselves.

 

I know my colleagues running bike events have similar issues with the ACU, but the autotrackers seem to manage without any of the official bodies.

 

If he is a licensed rider to a BSPA run team, he will have signed a contract to ride exclusively for them, hence the reason why guest rides have to be asked for via the promotion. What would you think if you had a rider under contract, and he gets hurt riding in a black meeting, damaged his gear and is unable to ride for you because he is injured.

Where professional riders can and can't ride is a matter for who they're contracted to. I don't think it's unreasonable for BSPA promoters to insist their riders only compete on ACU/SCB licensed circuits and in BSPA sanctioned meetings, but I do think it unreasonable if the BSPA is claiming exclusivity on running speedway in Britain, especially at amateur level.

[uk_martin 1,606]

..but I do think it unreasonable if the BSPA is claiming exclusivity on running speedway in Britain, especially at amateur level.

 

I don't think that they do. My understanding is that speedway in Great Britain is run by the SCB by authority of the ACU, who in turn are the recognised authority by the FIM.

 

The BSPA's job is to run the leagues and the competitions within the leagues.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

 

The one obvious difficulty in running a speedway meeting at a "black track" is who is going to referee it? All referees belong to the SCB, and of course that's the organisation that is being by-passed,

 

So if it's going to be done amateurishly, then why not pass on the job of officiating to a committee of BSF "scribes"? After all, who knows better than the people on here?

It's all very well taking 'the Michael', but my point is and I believe I am correct, Lydd and SITRA (Iwade) are run outside of the BSPA and probably the ACU and SCB, therefore, it is already happening and therefore could happen at the new venture in Wales. If the new venture are to hold track days for road racers and racing cars, why not for speedway bikes? (obviously on a speedway track!).

[Vince 9,458]

Yes, but the whole thing brings in what are called 'black' tracks. In 'black' events the same standards and provisions are not usually prevalent and in say dog racing, standards and medical provisions are or were not up to scratch and inadequate. These are the problems with black events. Who says what is safe and fair, and the promoters probably just run it for the profits made by not paying for provisions not provided. Where do the competitors come from. If they are motor cyclist trying a form of speedway, Ok, so be it on their heads. If he is a licensed rider to a BSPA run team, he will have signed a contract to ride exclusively for them, hence the reason why guest rides have to be asked for via the promotion. What would you think if you had a rider under contract, and he gets hurt riding in a black meeting, damaged his gear and is unable to ride for you because he is injured. If he is uninsured, or has poor insurance, it is bound to impact on the time he is going to be out or affects the quality of his gear that he can't repair/replace back to the original standard. The only time alternative promoters could be allowed to run meetings, is if they maintain the same standards(including air fence, etc), same medical facilities, and recognised and trained officials who know what they are doing, and have the appropriate insurance for riders, officials and public liability.

 

I seem to remember the worrying comments that Oxford speedway fans made on here when a Dirt Track meeting was held at Oxford, and most of the likes of the fence had been removed after closure of the speedway there.

 

First thing I should address is the Dirt track at Oxford. I rode in the last meeting held there and all the safety fence and all other requirements of the ACU were met, in fact the club was still affiliated to the ACU at that time. The only comments I remember were from Chris Brown about shale getting onto the dog track and that was because it was very windy and the covers were difficult to keep down. At no time have I ever seen Dirt track racing held where safety wasn't a priority and if anything the rules have been tightened up since affiliating to the MCF. I'm way too old and too experienced in the ways of motorcycle racing to involve myself with anything that didn't take safety seriously.

 

I think the days have long gone where the ACU were the only people capable of running safe, good quality meetings. There are other federations out there now who can do as well and in many cases better, they train officials to at least the same standard as the ACU, carry equivalent or better insurance and have many years of experience behind them. Generally they are set up because somebody has reached the end of their tether with the ACU not meeting the needs of their members.

 

For something like the track we are talking about it is difficult to see what benefit they gain from joining the ACU, SCB, BSPA with the costs involved if they have no intention of running league meetings. If somebody wants to run a Speedway meeting under a different affiliation why shouldn't they? The ACU will try and bully riders by threatening to revoke their licences but that would be illegal as proven in court somewhere around 40 years ago by the AMCA. More recently that threat was made about anybody riding at Lydd, they did nothing except wonder why their members view them with suspicion. If you want to run league meetings or involve yourself in International meetings then the ACU is the only option. If you want to run a training track with perhaps the odd meeting thrown in then in my opinion there are better options. Those options are in some cases very professional, very well run federations who are already running some of the biggest meetings in off road motorcycle sport in the UK.

 

The BSPA could I suppose reach a gentlemans agreement not to use riders who compete outside the ACU. However that would run the risk of opening the can of worms that is the asset/ self employed status of riders. They would be far better treating it like a rider who competes in the odd Grasstrack or Motocross and ignoring it. You never know somebody else might just come up with some good ideas that they can copy.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

So if it's going to be done amateurishly, then why not pass on the job of officiating to a committee of BSF "scribes"? After all, who knows better than the people on here?

I'm quite confident that I could run amateur speedway as well as the ACU, and that I know the regulations better than some licensed officials. I've not refereed speedway, but I have clerked other motor sport events.