Why speedway is failing

[Trees 2,814]

7 minutes ago, iainb said:

But we now find ourselves in the position of NO GP riders riding in our Leagues yet we still elect to run on off-nights and on many prime summer weekends there was no Speedway this year!

Because a few precious riders race in Sweden, Poland and Denmark. It's also stupid running against GPs? And our tracks are not all available when we want them to be ....

In Poland, Sweden and Denmark no rent is paid for stadiums, lucky aren't they!!!!

[racers and royals 8,727]

8 minutes ago, Trees said:

Because a few precious riders race in Sweden, Poland and Denmark. It's also stupid running against GPs? And our tracks are not all available when we want them to be ....

In Poland, Sweden and Denmark no rent is paid for stadiums, lucky aren't they!!!!

Does Buster pay rent at Kings Lynn ?

[mikebv 10,276]

18 minutes ago, Trees said:

Because a few precious riders race in Sweden, Poland and Denmark. It's also stupid running against GPs? And our tracks are not all available when we want them to be ....

In Poland, Sweden and Denmark no rent is paid for stadiums, lucky aren't they!!!!

A few precious riders that Promoters over the years have used to fuel their own ego's by wanting and having them in their teams...

Often needing sponsors to supplement these riders' salaries due to a fanbase drop that these riders didnt actually prevent from dwindling by their presence..

And they were/still are, also happy to swap fixtures around to suit these riders, at the (often literally), expense of the fans., or run contrived septets when these lads were/are not available.. 

(Which became/is still, pretty often)..

The majority of fans these days dont really take the competitions seriously but love watching the racing, so clubs should just run on the best night they can get their largest crowd..

And only sign riders who can be there on these nights..

Let's face it, the vast majority ride in both leagues now, and quite a few end up representing most teams in both leagues through guesting so there isnt any real credibility to what they run..

So just do it when most of their fans can get there..

Make the best of what you have...

 

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

But we now find ourselves in the position of NO GP riders riding in our Leagues yet we still elect to run on off-nights and on many prime summer weekends there was no Speedway this year!

I'd guess many fans would prefer to watch the GPs on television rather than go to their local track. That's why the die was cast from the moment the professional leagues allowed the SGP to go to a private promoter.

Cricket has similar issues when England are playing, but domestic teams at least accrue some of the revenue when fans are off watching international cricket.

[steve roberts 9,246]

53 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'd guess many fans would prefer to watch the GPs on television rather than go to their local track. That's why the die was cast from the moment the professional leagues allowed the SGP to go to a private promoter.

Cricket has similar issues when England are playing, but domestic teams at least accrue some of the revenue when fans are off watching international cricket.

..the same very much applied when SKY televised league matches. I know of one person, although living within walking distance of the track, preferred to stay at home and watch the match on TV.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

A few precious riders that Promoters over the years have used to fuel their own ego's by wanting and having them in their teams...

In the early years, GP 'stars' were possibly thought of as a drawcard as British fans expected to see 'the best riders in the world'. And quite possibly promoters would have seen decreased crowds without them, so it's understandable why they got sucked in.

However, history has shown that the inclusion of GP riders did little or nothing to improve crowds or revenues, or ultimately justify the costs that were incurred. That's not the fault of the GP riders who are largely only interested in making the best living they can whilst they can, nor indeed can you blame them for having their cake and eating it with respect to riding in the SGP, if that's what British promoters put on their plates. But at the end of the day, they merely hastened the downward spiral of a sport that had already started on the downward spiral.

As I said, the moment the SGP cat was allowed to be let out of the bag, the British leagues had stuffed themselves. A GP series was inevitable in the modern world, just as similar disruptive influences like the IPL and Big Bash were inevitable in cricket, but if you're the incumbent running the sport then at least make sure you're part of the bandwagon and get your cut from it...

[The Dog 413]

4 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Been discussed numerous times…..they never turned up .

Thanks mate, did wonder 

[enotian 562]

Regarding weekends, FIM has a part to play in this surely. If the FIM calendar (not just SGP) is strangling the domestic leagues (bar Poland) to the extent that the future of International events starts to look very Polish with a smattering of other Europeans then surely FIM need to think about future product development, especially if none of the SGP money makes it into the domestic leagues.

From May and October there are 24/25 weekends (defined as Friday night, Saturday and Sunday). At present there seems to be FIM events (qualifiers and finals) across most of those weekends dragging riders from domestic leagues causing them to run with guests or move to less attractive midweek schedules.

Surely FIM could condense its competitions to eleven of those weekends? Eight SGP's (inc Fri/Sat double rounds [leaving Sundays free]), One World Individual Final/GP Qualifier (qualifiers and final Fri to Sun), One Youth Champs (U21/U19 Championships (qualifiers and final Fri to Sun) and One World Team Cup/SON Finals(qualifiers and final Fri-Sun).  Appreciate that FIM need to allocate meetings across all their members but how much does the Hungarian Federation benefit from hosting an U19 qualifier meeting? And how much does it cost riders to navigate Europe to hopefully qualify for a final later in the season when they might even be injured/out of form. SEC series could run midweek.

That would leave 13/14 weekends which are entirely free of International events. Providing Poland weren't allowed to expand into the gap would those 13/14 free weekends (or Friday and Saturdays assuming everyone will still want to ride in Poland on a Sunday) plus 4 in April, allow British clubs to run a domestic league on those defined weekends (noting some clubs Ipswich, Sheffield, Poole would still stick to their traditional race night).  Not necessarily including GP riders who may be out of the price range  but with some certainty that their defined team would always be available (barring injury) on those weekends.

It appears that the scattergun approach to the FIM calendar doesn't benefit them or the riders and has a detrimental impact on domestic (British at least) leagues. And without those domestic leagues those International products will start to look all a bit one dimensional.    

[mikebv 10,276]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

..the same very much applied when SKY televised league matches. I know of one person, although living within walking distance of the track, preferred to stay at home and watch the match on TV.

Speaks volumes about what was "on offer" doesnt it?

Why pay to watch contrived septets in a competition devoid of credibility or status, when you have already paid Sky and can watch it at home? 

Out of 5 of us who used to attend pretty much each week, up until 10 or so years ago, only one now does so regularly, with the rest of us getting our fix by watching the TV and taking it in turns to "host the evening"...

We will though all go to Cardiff and several of us will go to Poland to watch League racing and GP's, as well as attend FIM events over here..

And "if the weather is nice" we will visit a few tracks on the odd occasion..

Cant beat a bit of "live" Speedway now and again can you?..

I (and the others), would still go every week if the leagues werent ran so 'Mickey Mouse' and actually had some kudos in winning..

And there are more than a "fair few" out there like me I would suspect who just need some persuasion to attend again...

(A "fair few" that is more than actually  currently attend I would suggest)..

And by "persuasion", I mean those in charge actually running the sport properly, either in a league system or in an individual one..

Either way, make it mean something and many who "used to go" regularly, and still keep a very keen interest in the sport, might start to attend regularly again.

One thing for sure though..

To keep doing the same thing every single season isnt an option surely is it?

Edited September 4, 2021 by mikebv

[steve roberts 9,246]

45 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Speaks volumes about what was "on offer" doesnt it?

Why pay to watch contrived septets in a competition devoid of credibility or status, when you have already paid Sky and can watch it at home? 

Out of 5 of us who used to attend pretty much each week, up until 10 or so years ago, only one now does so regularly, with the rest of us getting our fix by watching the TV and taking it in turns to "host the evening"...

We will though all go to Cardiff and several of us will go to Poland to watch League racing and GP's, as well as attend FIM events over here..

And "if the weather is nice" we will visit a few tracks on the odd occasion..

Cant beat a bit of "live" Speedway now and again can you?..

I (and the others), would still go every week if the leagues werent ran so 'Mickey Mouse' and actually had some kudos in winning..

And there are more than a "fair few" out there like me I would suspect who just need some persuasion to attend again...

(A "fair few" that is more than actually  currently attend I would suggest)..

And by "persuasion", I mean those in charge actually running the sport properly, either in a league system or in an individual one..

Either way, make it mean something and many who "used to go" regularly, and still keep a very keen interest in the sport, might start to attend regularly again.

One thing for sure though..

To keep doing the same thing every single season isnt an option surely is it?

I've never subscribed to SKY and when I was invited round to a friend's house to view the occasional match I wasn't that impressed with what was on offer with the usual "Sports Coverage" of over analysis and action replays...the same race replayed what seemed like a dozen times from different angles!

I always preferred the real thing stood on the terraces with my mates and chewing the fat. Gaps between races never bothered me personally and I treated it as a night out...a meeting commencing at 7-45 and finishing at 9 l always thought left me short changed!

[mikebv 10,276]

2 hours ago, enotian said:

It appears that the scattergun approach to the FIM calendar doesn't benefit them or the riders and has a detrimental impact on domestic (British at least) leagues. And without those domestic leagues those International products will start to look all a bit one dimensional.    

But why should British Speedway be impacted by what the FIM do?

Most riders over here dont even compete in the FIM events..

The top league in the world runs at weekend and works its own domestic programme around the FIM weekend meetings.. 

Seemingly without any problems whatsoever..

Sweden have Tuesday and Thursday.

Denmark have Wednesday..

And Poland have Friday, Saturday and Sunday..

The UK elects to have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday..

With Monday and Thursday being exclusively the 1st Div race nights..

Many clubs could race Friday, Saturday or Sunday I am sure but unfortunately as they share riders around with each other it is unworkable.. 

And as we know you do need guests (it's the law), so too many racing on the same night will mean no guest riders available.. 

And therefore less meetings for the riders..

And both leagues racing on the same day/night at weekend, would also mean dozens of riders having to be in two places at once..

A difficult skill to achieve...

In short. Their very own operating model that they choose to run has a far more detrimental impact to the sport in the UK than any FIM meeting planning...

By a huge margin..

Edited September 4, 2021 by mikebv

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

Regarding weekends, FIM has a part to play in this surely. If the FIM calendar (not just SGP) is strangling the domestic leagues (bar Poland) to the extent that the future of International events starts to look very Polish with a smattering of other Europeans then surely FIM need to think about future product development, especially if none of the SGP money makes it into the domestic leagues.

From May and October there are 24/25 weekends (defined as Friday night, Saturday and Sunday). At present there seems to be FIM events (qualifiers and finals) across most of those weekends dragging riders from domestic leagues causing them to run with guests or move to less attractive midweek schedules.

Surely FIM could condense its competitions to eleven of those weekends? Eight SGP's (inc Fri/Sat double rounds [leaving Sundays free]), One World Individual Final/GP Qualifier (qualifiers and final Fri to Sun), One Youth Champs (U21/U19 Championships (qualifiers and final Fri to Sun) and One World Team Cup/SON Finals(qualifiers and final Fri-Sun).  Appreciate that FIM need to allocate meetings across all their members but how much does the Hungarian Federation benefit from hosting an U19 qualifier meeting? And how much does it cost riders to navigate Europe to hopefully qualify for a final later in the season when they might even be injured/out of form. SEC series could run midweek.

The proliferation of FIM and UEM competitions over the past few years is really to raise the status of meetings in the smaller speedway countries. The likes of Hungary probably find it hard to attract semi-decent line-ups to their domestic meetings, so sticking a World or European Championship title on it - whether U19 or otherwise - not only raises the apparent profile of those meetings, but they probably also get away with paying far less than they'd otherwise need to be paying to get a similar line-up. That was of course, one of the rationales of the SGP to give more countries more high profile meetings on a regular basis.

Again, that major professional leagues have allowed this to happen is very poor, although weekend speedway probably doesn't really impact Poland and Sweden (or Denmark) in quite the same way other than their riders possibly getting injured. I suppose a big loser is longtrack which used to be able to pull the top speedway riders to their Sunday meetings, but the rise of the Polish leagues started that trend anyway. 

The three or four professional speedway leagues should have taken control of the FIM competitions years ago, whether still under the FIM banner or under a new body. Bernie Ecclestone and the F1 teams did that years ago, and whilst they nominally respect the FIA as the sanctioning body and pay licensing fees, the F1 participants and their venture capital partners fundamentally organise and run the competitions for their own benefit. 

Yes, the SGP, SWC and SON competitions could be condensed to run on less weekends, but probably television wants regular meetings throughput the season. 

The UEM speedway competitions should have no place at all in the calendar, except perhaps as a lower tier competition for riders not competing in the main professional leagues. Speedway is primarily a European-based sport anyway, so it's absolutely ridiculous to have these duplications that are effectively competing with each other for riders and sponsors. That the FIM allowed the UEM to do this was another fiasco.

I'd possibly even abolish SGP qualifiers as we know it, and select riders based on their averages or some sort of season-long 'second-half' qualification competition in the main professional leagues. You might want to have some qualifying events for riders who don't ride in these competitions to gain 'ranking points' or maybe a place or two in the SGP, and these could be staged in the smaller speedway nations. But I find it absurd that a GP competition uses a knockout format to determine places in the competition.

1 hour ago, enotian said:

It appears that the scattergun approach to the FIM calendar doesn't benefit them or the riders and has a detrimental impact on domestic (British at least) leagues. And without those domestic leagues those International products will start to look all a bit one dimensional.    

When it comes down to, it's really only the British leagues that are hugely affected by the FIM calendar, but that a (once) major speedway league providing employment to most professional riders in the world allowed its position to be undermined so much, shows very poor political lobbying. No doubt many of the British promoters were of the ilk that 'that they need us more than we need them', 'pull up the drawbridge' and even 'Britannia Rules the Waves', but in the end were totally outmanoeuvred by those in the FIM and private promoters.

But they might have persuaded the other professional leagues to their way of thinking by pointing out the potential amounts of money going to the FIM and out of the sport to a private promoter with little or no skin in the domestic speedway game. A total lack of vision combined with the sticking of heads in the sand... 

 

[iainb 5,016]

14 hours ago, The Dog said:

Whatever happened to the long list of moto crosers and grasstrackers that the BSPA gathered to try out speedway? Didn't they get names and emails from a bike show giving them free try outs? A few years ago now so I'm a bit sketchy on the facts... 

You would have thought that the 100's or 1,000's of motocross riders would have fancied their chances of taking the British Speedway world by storm with such a small pool of around 100 riders to compete with.

[The Dog 413]

And the chance to earn money, something that very few do in moto x 

[enotian 562]

5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

But they might have persuaded the other professional leagues to their way of thinking by pointing out the potential amounts of money going to the FIM and out of the sport to a private promoter with little or no skin in the domestic speedway game. A total lack of vision combined with the sticking of heads in the sand... 

 

Isn't that the angle though? Does the SGP Promoter have a long term vision for the product? If they do, surely to maximise income the more varied nationalities and higher standard competitors the better. Or is SGP sustainable with 90% of the rounds and competitors in/from Poland? Won by a Pole every year? That's ultimately the direction of travel if the domestic leagues collapse. FIM seem to be conscious of this based on them turning the World Team Cup into the SON to increase the number of genuinely competitive nations.

It's like companies who have a successful product but don't do R&D into new products and then struggle once their successful product starts to sell less.

So the SGP promoters should have more than a passing interest in their future supply chain (aka clubs providing riders).  Now whether that's a direct input like BSI(?) did with Reading Bulldogs(?) or just facilitating the health of the domestic league structures by better enabling access to riders, having thriving domestic competitions can only benefit them in the long run.

You can't change the past but you can try to work with these authorities for mutual benefit.