Newcastle vs Glasgow 8/5/22 4pm??

[Skidder1 7,636]

46 minutes ago, poole keith said:

spot on eck if anything the bailing out could be going the other way,maybe some of the big sponsors are involved in things ????

No maybe about it!!!!!

[noaksey 345]

18 hours ago, enotian said:

I don't think he is.

I currently have planning permission for a rail depot in North Tyneside.  It is time bound and I need to decide whether or not to apply to extend it. It should be academic as the site is pristine but I still have to do it. If I want to continue to operate the site.

Likewise you can't just run a sporting event because there was a previous planning permission to do so. Isn't that why the potential new Coventry promotion/owners have had to apply for planning even though it's the exact same site the speedway previously operated on? I know they'll need to do some construction which isn't the same situation as Newcastle but they'll still need permission to operate motorsports there. That's the reality as far as I'm aware.  Unless you can provide contrary evidence?

There is already permission for speedway racing at Brandon (and Swindon) the application covers new elements of the site that don't have permission like leisure facilities etc 

[Tsunami 10,219]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:36 PM, ruffdiamond said:

 

Must say, a likened it to the Cheddar Gorge and it's not good.

Looks like it's the old kerb foundation, the track must've been altered many years ago so how come it's only came to light recently,,, its obvious that someone must have known it was there. For it go for many years without notice is surprising. A cynic might think someone is out to get him?

It's there now and needs fixing, any idea of how it can be done?

To increase the number of racing  lines on the 1st and 2nd  bends, we decided in about 2000 to widen the track by taking the inside kerbing in by 2 metres. The same kerbs stones were used to create the new kerbing,  and you are right that the kerb foundation was left in place and the shale level increased by Tony Swales the then track curator. It was never thought to be a risk being deeper, and never showing until now when there appears to be a less shale covering. I remember in the 60's I think, that there had been an earlier concrete track under the 1st/2nd bends and it broke up and started to appear on the exact same spot  as the present problems. The concrete block was removed and I think most people will have forgot about it. Looking at the photo, I would guess someone has spotted something and deliberately scrapped the groove out with their steel shoe to show the foundation. The track action would not have  caused the shale to be divided and dumped in two straight lines either side of the concrete. Opportunist I think. BTW the 3rd and 4th bends had the same modification to the kerb line and there has never been a problem there, mainly I think, because it tends to be ridden out wider due to it being 2 metres wider, and also because the inside line of the 1st bend gets significalty more heavy traffic impact with all 4 riders from the tapes, hitting it in every race and more than any other part of the bends.

The drainage has always been a problem with our track. We had some plans which showed a diagonal drain across the centre green, but tests proved they were cracked and blocked and beyond use. There was a plan with a previous stadium owner to instal some new drains for the dogs and speedway,  but after looking likely to proceed, the owner backed out hoping we would still go ahead and we would pay for them.   

 

[ruffdiamond 6,115]

9 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

To increase the number of racing  lines on the 1st and 2nd  bends, we decided in about 2000 to widen the track by taking the inside kerbing in by 2 metres. The same kerbs stones were used to create the new kerbing,  and you are right that the kerb foundation was left in place and the shale level increased by Tony Swales the then track curator. It was never thought to be a risk being deeper, and never showing until now when there appears to be a less shale covering. I remember in the 60's I think, that there had been an earlier concrete track under the 1st/2nd bends and it broke up and started to appear on the exact same spot  as the present problems. The concrete block was removed and I think most people will have forgot about it. Looking at the photo, I would guess someone has spotted something and deliberately scrapped the groove out with their steel shoe to show the foundation. The track action would not have  caused the shale to be divided and dumped in two straight lines either side of the concrete. Opportunist I think. BTW the 3rd and 4th bends had the same modification to the kerb line and there has never been a problem there, mainly I think, because it tends to be ridden out wider due to it being 2 metres wider, and also because the inside line of the 1st bend gets significalty more heavy traffic impact with all 4 riders from the tapes, hitting it in every race and more than any other part of the bends.

The drainage has always been a problem with our track. We had some plans which showed a diagonal drain across the centre green, but tests proved they were cracked and blocked and beyond use. There was a plan with a previous stadium owner to instal some new drains for the dogs and speedway,  but after looking likely to proceed, the owner backed out hoping we would still go ahead and we would pay for them.   

 

Thanks Dave,,, so if the kerb stones are still there, they could be put back in they're original setting and the track would be back to the way it was in the (g)olden days?

[Tsunami 10,219]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:21 AM, Bandits4eva said:

Bends 3 & 4 last week caused issues… may also explain why everyone hugged the white line as much! The only one brave enough to come off it was Bomber in heat 15, which was awarded to Starke despite it looking the other way round… never mind! I seriously hope that it is sorted… 

Genuine question… ? I can’t remember why you originally moved from the Monday nights… I remember some banging meetings between Newcastle and Berwick at the start of the noughties on Monday nights! 

No. When we reintroduced speedway in 1997, Sundays was thought to be best day for us, especially with having the full day to prepare the track, and more chance of track staff availability  with it not being a work day for most of the public. Bjarne Pedersen hinted that he was looking to go to Poland in 2021, but he wanted to stay with us if we could change our race night. We agreed and we started to race on the Monday. After we sold him to Poole, we reverted to the Sundays afternoons, which also allowed us to do combined meetings with first the Diamonds and followed by the new original Gems team. We copied Newport's format. 

[ruffdiamond 6,115]

26 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

No. When we reintroduced speedway in 1997, Sundays was thought to be best day for us, especially with having the full day to prepare the track, and more chance of track staff availability  with it not being a work day for most of the public. 

All changed now tho mate, its 24/7/365 no rest for the wicked n that!!!,,, bet you still half-day Wednesday and Early Doors Friday? 

[Tsunami 10,219]

1 minute ago, ruffdiamond said:

All changed now tho mate, its 24/7/365 no rest for the wicked n that!!!,,, bet you still half-day Wednesday and Early Doors Friday? 

No chance of that. Someone had to hold the fort. 

[ruffdiamond 6,115]

8 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

No chance of that. Someone had to hold the fort. 

Hindsight's marvellous,,, imagine if they had 'checkatrade.com' back in the day eh? 

[enotian 562]

13 hours ago, HectorRacing said:

Another rail depot? Nice! 

existing one

[enotian 562]

11 hours ago, arnieg said:

Those examples are not comparable. You've also misunderstood the Cov application which doesn't involve an appplication for speedway because that consent already exists. In my time (spanning three decades sitting on planning committees) I have been involved with planning applications for two brand new Premiership football stadiums.

Isn't that the point though.  Neither of us know what the permission to operate speedway at Newcastle is.  Other than Newcastle supporters have been told numerous times that any break in the sport will result in the end of speedway at Brough as a new planning permission is unlikely to be granted for the sport to return to Brough.  Hence the "farewell track walk" at the end of last season when the sport was thought to be lost. Now planning permission might be a clumsy use of terminology but meaning a council approved permission to operate motorsports at Brough Park.

Now we can speculate that those statements from various promotions are untrue but I'm only quoting what has been stated.

My comment re Brandon was a question so not a misunderstanding (i only have a passing interest) which @noaksy has cleared up.

So is planning for football stadiums given ad infinitum? I don't think St James' Park is but it's council land with something like a 200 year lease to the football club such that it doesn't matter. Or could I for example demand that the flats built on Highbury are knocked down because there is planning permission to play football at that location? I'm guessing the planning permissions are changed to suit the desired outcome, if acceptable of course.

Plenty of former speedway tracks now under housing estates.  West Ham, Long Eaton Middlesbrough is a college I think? So nothing seems to be forever. 

[arnieg 3,638]

59 minutes ago, enotian said:

Isn't that the point though.  Neither of us know what the permission to operate speedway at Newcastle is.  Other than Newcastle supporters have been told numerous times that any break in the sport will result in the end of speedway at Brough as a new planning permission is unlikely to be granted for the sport to return to Brough.  Hence the "farewell track walk" at the end of last season when the sport was thought to be lost. Now planning permission might be a clumsy use of terminology but meaning a council approved permission to operate motorsports at Brough Park.

Now we can speculate that those statements from various promotions are untrue but I'm only quoting what has been stated.

My comment re Brandon was a question so not a misunderstanding (i only have a passing interest) which @noaksy has cleared up.

So is planning for football stadiums given ad infinitum? I don't think St James' Park is but it's council land with something like a 200 year lease to the football club such that it doesn't matter. Or could I for example demand that the flats built on Highbury are knocked down because there is planning permission to play football at that location? I'm guessing the planning permissions are changed to suit the desired outcome, if acceptable of course.

Plenty of former speedway tracks now under housing estates.  West Ham, Long Eaton Middlesbrough is a college I think? So nothing seems to be forever. 

Again you seem to have missed the point. Planning permissions are public documents in the public domain so if there is anything granted in the last 50 years it should be easy to find.

 

Secondly case law governing historic use where there is no recent consent leaves me pretty confident that Newcastle have established use planning permission. (And once established there is no requirement for continuous use)

[Diamonds85 699]

10 hours ago, Tsunami said:

To increase the number of racing  lines on the 1st and 2nd  bends, we decided in about 2000 to widen the track by taking the inside kerbing in by 2 metres. The same kerbs stones were used to create the new kerbing,  and you are right that the kerb foundation was left in place and the shale level increased by Tony Swales the then track curator. It was never thought to be a risk being deeper, and never showing until now when there appears to be a less shale covering. I remember in the 60's I think, that there had been an earlier concrete track under the 1st/2nd bends and it broke up and started to appear on the exact same spot  as the present problems. The concrete block was removed and I think most people will have forgot about it. Looking at the photo, I would guess someone has spotted something and deliberately scrapped the groove out with their steel shoe to show the foundation. The track action would not have  caused the shale to be divided and dumped in two straight lines either side of the concrete. Opportunist I think. BTW the 3rd and 4th bends had the same modification to the kerb line and there has never been a problem there, mainly I think, because it tends to be ridden out wider due to it being 2 metres wider, and also because the inside line of the 1st bend gets significalty more heavy traffic impact with all 4 riders from the tapes, hitting it in every race and more than any other part of the bends.

The drainage has always been a problem with our track. We had some plans which showed a diagonal drain across the centre green, but tests proved they were cracked and blocked and beyond use. There was a plan with a previous stadium owner to instal some new drains for the dogs and speedway,  but after looking likely to proceed, the owner backed out hoping we would still go ahead and we would pay for them.   

 

This is the point I tried to make a few pages back but people weren't very happy with my comment

[Diamonds85 699]

On 5/9/2022 at 12:26 PM, Diamonds85 said:

What was the reason he let him go again? I forget...

Honestly I thought the track was the smoothest it's been all year last night, but then again I get the best view of the 3rd/4th bend, which looked very smooth. The picture that's circulating is NOT acceptable, however it looks as if it was dug out by whoever took the photo first, which will have exaggerated it much worse than it really was. Please Rob, sort this club out, you came in at the final hour to save us, but why? If this is how you're going to run the show, I'd rather be remembered for who the club was before, not the sh*tshow it's turning into now.

 

[tyretrax 2,253]

How could anyone scrape the shale to make that "groove" without being noticed? The ridge on either side of it is concrete that has been pushed out when the kerb was laid into the wet concrete.

[ruffdiamond 6,115]

35 minutes ago, tyretrax said:

How could anyone scrape the shale to make that "groove" without being noticed? The ridge on either side of it is concrete that has been pushed out when the kerb was laid into the wet concrete.

Which is something that could've should've been addressed at the time when the track was altered,,, many moons ago?

Edited May 11, 2022 by ruffdiamond