World Final V Grand Prix

[The Know 221]

Grand prix is far better, there to much to chance in a one off. The best rider over 11 rounds is the true champion. It will never go back to a one off final.

[stevehone 3,439]

one off finals were all about excitement there on the day and knowing the winner at the end of it, and for me that's what i prefer.

 

you have the majority of GP's where you'd go away feeling like it was all a bit of an anti-climax as in a way nobody has won anything other than that meeting.

 

by saying that if it was at Bydgoszcz you might as well give it to Gollob, well who is to say he would make it through the qualifiers?

that was the beauty of the one-offs ... we had qualifiers that had different riders, and every meeting meant something, and all riders had something to fight for.

 

every now and again we had riders that could have a great season in the league and ride through to a world final, that's not possible now as it's more or less an invitation series and would take a long time to find your way to getting an invite.

[MARK246 243]

one off finals were all about excitement there on the day and knowing the winner at the end of it, and for me that's what i prefer.

 

you have the majority of GP's where you'd go away feeling like it was all a bit of an anti-climax as in a way nobody has won anything other than that meeting.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on post.

I have been to GP system meetings and it is flat compared to the old one off finals. There is a choice though no one forces anybody to go. Given the option the 75,000 that went to Wembley is now 40,000 at Cardiff and many at Cardiff eg. the Polish supporters possibly never got to Wembley.

Whether you agreed with the winner or not on the one off final it was all there and then much more exciting.

[fatface 2,586]

If you're thinking of a World Final as being in front of 90,000 screaming fans on a Saturday night at Wembley, then the answer is obvious. But if you're thinking about a World Final in front of 20,000 on a Sunday afternoon at Vojens or Pocking. Then the answer is also obvious.

 

The GPs was the right way to go for the sport...those Wembley nights were long gone by the time the one-off final was scrapped.

[norbold 7,180]

one off finals were all about excitement there on the day and knowing the winner at the end of it, and for me that's what i prefer.

 

you have the majority of GP's where you'd go away feeling like it was all a bit of an anti-climax as in a way nobody has won anything other than that meeting.

 

by saying that if it was at Bydgoszcz you might as well give it to Gollob, well who is to say he would make it through the qualifiers?

that was the beauty of the one-offs ... we had qualifiers that had different riders, and every meeting meant something, and all riders had something to fight for.

 

every now and again we had riders that could have a great season in the league and ride through to a world final, that's not possible now as it's more or less an invitation series and would take a long time to find your way to getting an invite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I think you've summed it up nicely there, Steve.

[iris123 21,111]

I would go for the one off final as well.I have no problem with the fact that there is a possibility of a surprise(unfancied)rider becoming World Champ.It didn't happen often.Just like Millwall don't often get into the FA Cup final.Just the fact that that sort of thing can happen adds rather than detracts from the competition imo.If Lewis Bridger or Emil Sajfutdinov have a fantastic season next year the most they can hope for is a wildcard for a GP.In past years it was possible for an 18 year old to take the world by storm.

Personally with the GPs,you know full well before the season starts that there are only 3 or so riders that have the skill and sponsorship back-up to win.After about 3 or 4 GPs it is usually down to 2 riders.There were definite flaws in the old qualifying system but they could easily be ironed out.

[Reviresco 708]

Yes, totally agree with Steve's comments.

 

A one off World Final for me every time. Even though I remember being in the pits at Liverpool in 1981 when Billy Sanders failed to qualify from the Australasian Final after finishing 3rd in the World Final the year before. But that, in a a way was the beauty of the elimination factor of the qualifying rounds, which gave every rider a chance to be World Champion that year.

 

I guess there's no way that the GP series could run in line with a one off World Championship like they have in some other sports, like athletics (and rowing ?).

[spiegal 294]

It is amazing how the passage of time clouds the facts.

 

For your information, the biggest post 1970 crowd in UK for a Wembley Final was 72,000...a massive figure but against teh number (18) Div.1 tracks, it makes the issue clearer.The often quoted 80/90,000 were the realms of good publicity. Even in those days sponsorship was minimal.

 

One of the major reasons the World Final ceased was the lack of nations willing to stage the qualifying rounds. Mostly they were always loss makers.Same with teh World Team cup, always lost a bomb.

 

That makes JP's gamble even more impressive.

 

how do i know, well i was at the FIM meetings when the changes were originated way back in 1988.The GP ideas were masterminded by Gunter Sorber and Joss Vaessen, huge names, and impressive figures in those days.But they were visionaries, who saw that the one off Finals were attracting less people.

 

Also as somebody who suffered at the hands of the GP possibly more than most....1991..we took 2,200 to Gothenburg..even Pocking 1983 ..was 1,200, and to Vojens we took about 950. In the first year of the GP in 1995, we took precisely 46 fans.

 

Sometimes people forget that we have always backed the sport, tend to forget figures like that.

 

The best finals, naturally everyone remembers the Penhall finals of 81/82...the excitement was always there, but todays events do actually produce a genuine Champion. Interesting how the likes of Penhall, Nielsen,Carter etc. would have added to their totals.

 

We shall never know.

[iris123 21,111]

Actually i thought Olsen was behind sowing the seeds of the GP idea back in the 70s after he got knocked out of the qualis whilst reigning champ.Didn't the Daily Mirror(?) Grand Prix follow quickly after?Not sure on this,but i do remember all the talk in the Star after Ole was eliminated.

And like i said there were definite flaws in the qualis.But there does on the surface seem to be a number of tracks that regularly host qualifying rounds for various competitions.Miskolc,Daugavpils,Terenzano,Stralsund all spring to mind as regularly hosting qualis.Some of these tracks a few every season.So if the qualification rounds were more attractive i.e not just continental riders in one group and Nordic riders in another and maybe the fee that the FIM asks for staging the rounds is looked at.

Edited September 25, 2007 by iris123

[speediebee 0]

I guess there's no way that the GP series could run in line with a one off World Championship like they have in some other sports, like athletics (and rowing ?).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not? I too miss the one off World Final with all its unpredictability.

I think to run both would be a great idea and I don't necesarily see any conflict.

One would be a "Grand Prix World Champion" the other could be an "Individual World Champion", or would that be too confusing?

[Mr. Clemens 646]

World Finals versus Grand Prix Series

 

‘Sixteen GPs and what do you get

Another day older and deeper in debt

Brother don’t you call me cos I can’t go

I owe my soul to the company store’

 

The world finals were the icing on the cake in the romantic world of the old style Individual World Speedway Championship –symbolised in the winged wheel

 

Riders across the board – from the ‘no hoper’ – to the potential world champion – were thrown into the cauldron of cutthroat competition

 

Sometimes – those who – ‘should have been there’ – weren’t

Sometimes – those who – ‘shouldn’t have been there’ – were

 

The most obvious example of this – in most folk’s minds anyway – being their best beloved Polish World Champion – dear old – Jerzy Szczakiel

 

To this day you can hear Polish fans chanting his name on the terraces

 

Jerzy – Jerzy

 

(They chant his name – much in the same manner of the chant – Shearer – Shearer

You know the one – that deep-throated dumb gormless chant – we all loved to use - called out - while England struggled to qualify for - yet another international championship)

 

But of course - Jerzy - is denigrated - ‘cos – ‘Our Zenon should have won it – not the last minute substitute who only got to ride – cos we couldn’t think of anyone else to put in’

 

But Zenon didn’t win it – nor ever looked like doing so – didn’t win it perhaps – because he wasn’t up for it – or because as all his compatriots wanted him to win it –he decided to be ‘awkward’ – and therefore obliged them – in typical Polish style – by not winning it.

 

Either way – people have never stopped talking about that final – since

And we haven’t even mentioned Mauger falling off his bike – romantic or what eh!!!

 

And you hardly hear people waxing lyrical – about any GP series – as they do of the old world finals - asking people – ‘do you recall the thrills and spills of - GP series 95 – 98 – 01 – 03 – 06 – etc?

 

The GP series is – ‘fairer’ – yes it is – but the glamour – excitement – the life blood of speedway – is – the unexpected

 

It is correct to say – that one bad ride can ruin a rider’s night – and whole speedway year – as it did with Ole Olsen – at Wembley – 1972 – and again in Ulevi – in 1974

 

I can still recall the Danish contingent’s chant – 1974 - they’d obviously blocked booked a section of the Ulevi Stadium – to cheer on their hero - there was a deep throated manly chant of - UNKA – UNKA – UNKA – UNKA – ringing round the stadium – during the build up – but once Ole had obviously blown it – in his first race – they’d gone – that whole section of the stadium was – empty

 

I was disappointed that Olsen had lost his chance of winning from the off – as I was and still am a Ole fan – but Anders Michanek more than made up for it – with the best world final performance I ever saw – it was a privilege to be there

 

But a couple of duff GP meetings can ruin a rider’s season just as comprehensively as a duff ride in a one off world final

 

When we make a meal – we throw extra ingredients into the mix – to add ‘body’ – to ‘spice it all up’ – to make it tastier – more interesting

Because we tire of the mundane – the routine – the run off the mill

 

We can even get bored with Tomas Gollob – winning the Bydgosz GP almost every year – no matter how magically it is done

 

The GP series is in danger of turning into a dire treadmill – set to get even more tedious – and far removed from the madding crowd – as it goes to far flung outposts – to fly the speedway flag – in pastures – perhaps – greener!!!

 

The solitary appearance of the IMG representative – on Sky TV earlier on in the season – after the take over from BSI

 

A square jawed gentleman – whom – for all the world – looked like Clark Kent – ready to strip down to his red undies – and his blue body stocking - ready to -

 

(‘Red and Blue Mr C – why - aren’t those the Halifax Dukes’ colours???’

‘Oh my God - yes they are – ‘scuse me while I swoon for a moment – and collect me shattered nerves – let me get a little drink – or something to snort’

Mr C overdoses on meths – whoops sorry – I mean methanol – mmm – that’s better)

 

whisk speedway off to pastures greener – with a 20 GP series – complete with works teams – big money sponsorship – and world wide satellite link ups – brought to your TV screen - in a nice neat – pay as you view - package

 

And the riders caught up in all this – will find themselves – bound to this treadmill

Circumnavigating the globe – with a travelling itinerary – more exhausting than any flight from the UK to – Poland etc.

 

The same old faces – will be there - every GP – trying ever harder – to raise their game – to provide the paying public – what such a series demands – getting ever more jaded in the process – in effect – selling their souls – to the company’s store.

 

But with the old system – riders like – the swashbuckling piratical Andreas Jonsson – could do an – Anders Michanek – and become world champion – with a scintillating 15 point maximum

But he will never be world champion – in the current format of the GP series

Because he lacks the tenacity and the consistency – to come in first - over the number of GPs required to be world champion – but no one would resent Jonsson being world champion

 

Only one man has risen to the plate – in the last three GP series

Season ’05 Tony Rickardsson

Season 06 – Jason Crump

Season ’07 Nicki Pedersen

With the runner up a distant second – each time – on the score board

And even though they’ve changed the scoring system this time – the result has been the same – the winner outstripping the rest of the field - from the word – GO

That couldn’t – and wouldn’t – happen – in a one off world final

 

For in a one off world final – Leigh Adams – could have won the title – with a cool calculated consistent performance – in a final – where all around – were losing their heads

No one would resent Leigh Adams being world champion

 

Hans Andersen – despite his quality – could be another – who in the end – becomes another GP also ran

Because Hans is finding it tough – to develop the consistency – required to be a GP world champion

 

But in a off final – he could rise to the challenge – as he did in Season ’06 – making a title win – the springboard – to multiple world championships – ranking him up there with that other Hans - Neilsen

No one would resent Hans Andersen being world champion

 

But he will fall by the world championship wayside – because the GPs march to a different drumbeat – than Hans is attuned to

 

Does the inclusion of Dryml – Iversen – Bjarne Pedersen – in GP Season ’08 – set the pulse racing???

Maybe – Maybe not

But in a one off final – each of them could – pull of a surprise on the night

But there are no dark horses in GPs

But unexpected surprises on the night – this is the romance of the world final

 

While watching the performances of Tai Woffinden and Josh Auty during the Scunthorpe v Oxford meeting – it was obvious they are caught up in – and being thrilled by – the deep all encompassing embrace of the romance of speedway

 

I saw this immediately I saw Josh Auty- in his black kevlars – he was kitted out – in a manner - symbolic of a knight errant – on a mission to succeed – to find the holy grail – and to sup from the cup of everlasting legend

 

Tai Woffinden just as positively turned out – seeking to drink from the same vessel

Neither of them saying to the other –‘after you’ – more – ‘he who gets there first – deserves the victors spoils’

 

And thus those other riders - who stand in the pits there with them – they feel the magic surrounding these boys – and they too wish for that same romantic embrace – and thus their performance is lifted – and the chase was on – to keep up with Auty and Woffinden

 

Not just in that meeting itself – but in their speedway careers in general – Bekker took up that challenge – as did the Oxford boys – who made it clear they weren’t going to allow Auty and Woffinden – to get too far ahead

 

Those other boys saw – where Auty and Woffinden are heading – and Bekker and the Oxford boys – all of them were saying –‘we’re going there too’ – the reason Jordan Frampton – made sure of his six points in his tactical double – the reason Sam Martin got his act together and won two races – the reason why Kyle Norton and Brendan Johnson gave them chase – they were saying – we aren’t going to be left behind’

The reason Byron Bekker – picked himself up off the track – grasped the nettle and played his part in the magical melody of the night

 

All these being the reasons - the meeting was a cracker last night – you could see all of this being played out – there on the track – plain as the nose on your face

 

It is this romance of speedway that – Malcolm Vasey – is on about in every post he makes on the BSF – that this romance – is alive and well in the Conference League – and he is in fear of the danger of it all dying – because – the powers that be don’t see it – because it will all be swallowed up in the – new international world speedway product – accessible to all - armchair bound TV supporters

 

But will the future of the GPs - solidify and make brittle - this romantic hold speedway has - on all these young men (and women) – till it shatters and turns it all to dust?

 

Because – even has IMG’s – Clark Kent – transforms Speedway - into the Superman GP Series – and thus makes ready to take its steely hold on Speedway – proceeding on the assumption that Speedway and Speedway riders – are a malleable object – which can be pounded into any shape

 

But whereas - Speedway – is made up of molecules – whose sum total – is greater than the sum of its parts – and thus – when Speedway is made to go – anywhere other than its natural destination – Speedway returns to its constituent parts – and like grains of sand – slip imperceptibly out of even Superman’s steely grip

 

Kryptonite City Blues – or what eh!!!!

 

So yeah – gimme that old time religion – if it was good enough for – Ivan Mauger* – it was good enough for me

 

*Insert the favourite rider of your choice here

 

And it can be done – with a marriage of both types of championships – as shown in my very own – All Time Greats World Championship series

 

Where 32 riders compete – in alternating GPs – while qualifying rounds take place – for those who are unlikely to finish in the last sixteen – of the first years series – in order to decide who takes the remaining 16 places in the second season – coincidently the very number of riders – who competed in the old world finals

 

Therefore more chances of grasping the golden apple – for more riders – inviting surprises – excitement – dark horses – coming out of nowhere to pull off shock wins

And afore you know it – speedway will be romantic all over again – with each and everyone of us – reaching out to feel the embrace of it all

 

*Note for Scribbler – the Speedway Star won’t publish this either

[superguest 194]

I like the GPs but not this many. 8 Would do me to be honest

 

Denmark Sweden Poland Britain Latvia Slovenia Italy Czech Repbublic

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

.. Organise the final at Bydgoszcz and you already know the winner 

 

But why would Gollob winning be a problem.

 

There's no rider in the history of the sport who more deserves to be World Champ.

 

Empirically, that's the case as he's the ONLY rider in history with as many as THREE World Championship rostrum positions but never a first place on that rostrum.

Also he's been - and unlike some others..: Mr. Hancock springs to mind! - he still gives his absolute all in the GPs and is still the most exciting rider in the series.

 

Also as you allude to, no-one has lost out more than Gollob by the change to the season-long GP system..: if there'd been a one-off World Final in Poland, what, three or four times in his top class career he would surely have at least two World titles by now and may indeed have won at another venue out of Poland too..

[Kevin Meynell 2]

At the end of the day, BSI/IMG are businesses. They are in it to make money, quite simply. They would be mad to change from 10/11 money making GP to just 1 money making meeting.

 

Yes, but it's not just about them, is it? Why do people feel it's acceptable for them to ride roughshod over the rest of the speedway business?

 

Anyway to the point in question. I undoubtedly had more interest in the World Championship when we had the World Final system. There was just something more exciting about watching riders from your team progress through the various rounds, hoping they'd make the Final.

 

That said, I don't fundamentally have anything against the GP system, although I think there are far too many rounds (8 would be more than enough, and I'd personally prefer 6). However, I do think the way the FIM practically gave-away the SGP to BSI was pretty disgraceful, and what goes back into speedway as a whole?

 

[To be fair, the World Championship circa 1995 probably had little commercial value, and BSI probably generated a fair bit of the income themselves. However, it's just a shame that the promoters of the major speedway leagues couldn't have come-up with the same idea themselves.]

[Silver Bee 57]

Yes, but it's not just about them, is it? Why do people feel it's acceptable for them to ride roughshod over the rest of the speedway business?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because they've been given the power to do it by owning the rights to the Speedway World Championship.

 

If a business didn't take an opportunity like the one presented to them, or paid for by them, they wouldn't be a sucesful business.

 

It doesn't matter how many old-timers on here campaign for the one off world finals, they aint coming back. Times have changed and the GP's are here to stay.