Which Brit Should Get A Wild Card?

[spook 28]

Or more to the point who would you suggest..?

Go on, tell us Nicholls and Richardson...: now that REALLY would be laughable!!!

 

Richardson and Harris ................. and the reason why? and this is the odd thing Parsloes.... because regardless of whether I usually agree with the content of your posts or not... they are usually well considered....................... the reason is because I would not want to risk damaging careers of young riders before they have even got started

 

You cannot just chuck young riders with potential in at this level and say "swim" ... and especially when the field is this strong ... let me remind us who we have next year...

 

JC (world champion) Nicki P (world champion) Greg H (world champion) Emil (no comment needed) Tomasz (the most talented) Freddie, AJ, Hans, Noddy, Jarek, Bjerre, Rune ....... that most likely leaves Magnus (no offence intended)... the wildcard and two brits (or one + Zagar)................................... do we not think the first 12 would eat alive any young rider who has not shown that they are ready?

 

I believe that Tai and Lewis have the confidence required to not be beaten before they have started ......... but what happens if they go into the 4th GP with only 6 points to their name? Do we think they would still have the confidence? and would they have the experience of previous slumps to fall back on?........................ i'm not saying that young riders shouldnt ever go in but I do think that a rider is ready when he is ready and it is playing poker with his career if there is a chance that he isnt ready

 

meanwhile yes Bomber and Rico have shown that for whatever reasons they are not the cream of the cream in this current era............. but they are good enough for IMG to have their Brits and for them to have a decent showing.............. Rico did have that one year badly off the pace and you never know what mood or levels of confidence you are going to get with him but imo he does actually deserve to be considered on merit anyway because of the season he has had

 

bomber is a bit of an enigma ..... undoubtably he has suffered by being a racer in the era that will be remembered for being the slickest in world championship history..........and I think he was a different rider with Brian Andersen in his corner ............. but I also think we are starting to see flashes of that form again.............. and we are talking about a guy who has never been woefully off the pace... just behind going into that first corner.......................... Rico and Bomber are a vote for protecting our youngsters and their potential

 

 

 

I think the truth of the matter is that there is no comfortable option for the British fans.......... would any brit be there on merit? would it be too soon for some of them and in a particularly strong year? Should Nicholls, Rico and Bomber really be getting chance after chance after chance? Should we really be getting annual permanent wildcards?

Edited October 8, 2009 by spook

[BigFatDave 258]

No , if they closed the Prince of Wales pub - that would stop me going to Cardiff . And i've long since lost interest in tuning into Sky for the GP's , apart from checking out the Start Girls , who are by far the most entertaining part of GP racing .

I've got just one word for ya, Paulco - Walkabout!!

 

Plus the Jagermeister Girls that ambushed me there knocked spots off the Start Tarts!! (luckily there was plenty of me to go round!)

[barrow boy 119]

Easy Answer - Chris Harris and here is why.

 

Firstly he is the British Champion and is the best averaged rider in the country.

 

Secondly he is at the prime age to be competing unlike Nicholls who is on the slope down and Woffinden and EK are too inexperienced.

 

Thirdly he is a very dedicated rider unlike Richardson.

 

And finally he got higher up than an other Brit in the GP Challenge and only just missed out plus he is finishing well in the GP's.

 

IMO it should be top 10 plus the 3 from the GPC plus Harris due to GB and maybe another competitive rider from an unsupported GP nation ie Zagar with common sense of form and age or the 11th place finisher getting the vote.

I agree that the reigning British Champion should be the one if a pick is forthcoming and I agree that it should be Harris on current form and reliability etc but I should just like to ask if in fact it is not Richardson who is the highest averaged British rider.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Rico and Bomber are a vote for protecting our youngsters and their potential

 

Okay I appreciate what you're saying and there's good sense behind it.

We'll never know I guess if the 'sink or swim' tactic would work because I don't doubt for a second that Tai (and certainly not Lewis..) will be given that chance this coming series..

From a personal point of view (and utterly irrelevant, I know... ) I would certainly go to Cardiff to see the GP if Tai was riding but if it's Richardson, Harris, Nicholls I wouldn't cross the road to see it!!

 

Personally I'd say if we do accept the line (well made...) that it's too soon for the likes of Tai, then I'd agree with your other point and say let's have NO Brits in it at all... Can't for the life of me see what Lee Richardson would offer the series in ANY way whatsoever... And Bomber...: well like everyone I guess, I will him to do well but it ain't working is it..

[norbold 7,135]

In all the "glorious" years of the World Championship, appearance in the one-off final was both by nationality and qualification, as places were allocated to the leading riders in the final rounds of qualification events in (inter alia) GB, Scandinavia, "Continental" Europe

Once speedway had gone international there were no qualifiers direct from GB, Scandinavian or any other national rounds. Riders qualified from the British, Scandinavian and Continental rounds to meet in semi-finals, with the top 16 going through to the final. Different countries organised their own rounds differently. For British riders in 1994, for example, the last year before the Grand Prix, there were quarter finals, then semi finals and then a British Final. From there the top qualifiers joined the Australian and New Zealand qualifiers in a Commonwealth final. The top qualifiers then went in to the Overseas Final, which included the American qualifiers. The qualifiers from that then joined the Scandinavian and Continental qualifiers in two semi-finals before they could get to the Final. Hardly the same thing as being allocated a place!

[shazzybird 10]

From a personal point of view (and utterly irrelevant, I know... ) I would certainly go to Cardiff to see the GP if Tai was riding but if it's Richardson, Harris, Nicholls I wouldn't cross the road to see it!!

 

Why? I always said when Mark stopped racing in the GPs I would never go again ...... but here we are about to celebrate the 10th Anniversary of Cardiff and I've been to every one, I couldn't think of anything worse than sitting at home watching it on the tv knowing what a fantastic weekend I was missing out on, ok for me it's not all about the GP, it's the meeting up with people from all over the globe that I don't see from one year to the next, getting away from the normal hum drum with a meeting thrown in for good measure. I always say it, I don't cheer on Rico and I never will for my own reasons yet even if he is the only Brit in the field, I'll still go but I'll cheer on one of the others, oh and of course the BGP Wild Card as long as it aint him

[Midland Red 2,383]

Once speedway had gone international there were no qualifiers direct from GB, Scandinavian or any other national rounds. Riders qualified from the British, Scandinavian and Continental rounds to meet in semi-finals, with the top 16 going through to the final. Different countries organised their own rounds differently. For British riders in 1994, for example, the last year before the Grand Prix, there were quarter finals, then semi finals and then a British Final. From there the top qualifiers joined the Australian and New Zealand qualifiers in a Commonwealth final. The top qualifiers then went in to the Overseas Final, which included the American qualifiers. The qualifiers from that then joined the Scandinavian and Continental qualifiers in two semi-finals before they could get to the Final. Hardly the same thing as being allocated a place!

 

Never said it was the same as being allocated a place - the point was that, even with qualification rounds, geographics always came into it somewhere

In other words, there were places "reserved" in the final 16 for British born riders - provided they were successful enough in the type of rounds you mention

The final 16 was not made up of the best 16 riders in the world, or the best qualified - but of the 16 who were successful through geographically based qualifying rounds

Allocation (or seeding) of places did take place (as I said this has been discussed elsewhere) but my points were that there were two issues, places reserved based on nationality and British alloaction of wildcards if and when available

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Never said it was the same as being allocated a place - the point was that, even with qualification rounds, geographics always came into it somewhere

In other words, there were places "reserved" in the final 16 for British born riders - provided they were successful enough in the type of rounds you mention

 

Actually for many years the British Rounds were also contested by the 'Commonwealth' riders and bearing in mind that in those days we had the likes of Ronnie Moore and Briggo, later joined by Ivan Mauger plus Aussies like Jim Airey..: by no means were British born riders given a clear route to the Final..

 

Surely the way to look at those 'rounds' both in those earlier days and later when - in any case - England had numerous world-class riders, was that these were part of an overall meritocratic way of determining who qualified for the World Final.. Only when Wembley hosted the Final (or later Odsal..) did the Brits get a fast-tracked means to the Final (though the British Final then became a hugely competitive event when that was the case..).

 

To have ever considered replacing such a tried and trusted and exciting means of determining qualification for the final stages of the World Champiionmship, with a system where people sit around a room behind closed doors and merely DECIDE who should be in it was (and remains..) a act of utter madness...

 

 

[lucifer sam 3,954]

To have ever considered replacing such a tried and trusted and exciting means of determining qualification for the final stages of the World Champiionmship, with a system where people sit around a room behind closed doors and merely DECIDE who should be in it was (and remains..) a act of utter madness...

 

Parsloes - that's always been the case to some extent, though. There was the same number of seeded riders in the 1973 World Final (five) as the 2010 Grand Prix (four seeds, plus a wildcard in each round).

 

It could be also argued that the Inter-Continental/Continental split guaranteed that the World Final never took place with the 16 best riders in the world on show e.g. would Erik Gundersen (16th in the 1982 ICF) failed to qualify had their been two equal semi-finals?

 

All the best

Rob

Edited October 8, 2009 by lucifer sam

[Midland Red 2,383]

To have ever considered replacing such a tried and trusted and exciting means of determining qualification for the final stages of the World Champiionmship, with a system where people sit around a room behind closed doors and merely DECIDE who should be in it was (and remains..) a act of utter madness...

 

Agreed! No question!

 

All I was saying was that all of the 16 places in the World Final were reserved for a set number of places based on geographics, and apart from the years when riders were "seeded" to the World Final, my comment I believe to be factually correct

 

I would much prefer some qualification system "on-the-track", an extension of the current GP Challenge for more (or all??) of the GP starting places

 

And I do believe a return to the knock-out system of GP rounds (finish 3rd/4th in two races and you're out) would be a vast improvement on what we now have (apart from the fact that there would be added disappointment at the back for [enter rider's name] according to Tony Millard)

Edited October 8, 2009 by Midland Red

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

TBH, though I'd always prefer a one-off World Final (it was such an exciting event - by far the most exciting sporting even I've ever attended... ), a multi-round GP would be okay provided there's a fairer system of qualifying...

Only way to do this IMHO, is to start in early March (actually earlier with the Anzac rounds...) with qualifying in all of the countries, leading to meetings in April and May (along the lines of the old European Final, Intercontinental etc.). These bigger international eliminators would obviously take the place of the early GP Rounds. Then from June through to October (even later if there are indoor venues where the organisers can insure they're not 'rained off'... ) the multi-round GP series can run.

 

To me it's imperative that we start each year with a 'clean slate', so if one is a newer rider at the top of your game you have the chance to progress THAT year. Examples from the past are John Louis..: turns to Speedway from motocriss and within a year is in a World Final or Michael Lee, teenager in the second division, within two seasons in a World Final. This CAN'T happen today and that's not good for the sport nor does it encourage the ambitious and talented to take up the sport...

 

Venues who 'miss out' on GPs one year (though the qualifiers would be excellent meetings...) get a GP the next year and vice versa...

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

To even mention Bridger and the GP series leaves you open to the ridicule you often recieve

 

Holder will be in the series next year. Darcy Ward and Tai will certainly be competing in it soon. Lindback is mounting a revival. Plus Pavlic, Bridger, Houggard, some young poles coming through. I think in terms of young riders coming through, the future is bright.

 

Ah, there: message to Iris123..: are you still laughing or is the fact that someone else mentions Lewis as a future GP rider enuff to make you revise your typically jaundiced opinion..??

 

Still haven't heard YOUR view on which Brit or Brits should be included..!!

[iris123 21,029]

Ah, there: message to Iris123..: are you still laughing or is the fact that someone else mentions Lewis as a future GP rider enuff to make you revise your typically jaundiced opinion..??

 

Still haven't heard YOUR view on which Brit or Brits should be included..!!

Sorry,been to work today and was talking to a neighbour.....you know the normal things people do in life

 

My opinion is that there is currently no GB rider that desrves to be in the GP series on riding merit.Of course we live in a comercial world and so we will see at least 1 rider in.I hope it is just the one and no more.Now do i believe the report from Poland on tv a few weeks back that stated Tai would be in if Harris failed to qualify?Could be likely,but i hope untrue.I don't believe,like i said that a youngster should be thrown into such a series to see if he "sinks or swims".This isn't an old style World Final where he might not do well but after a few days all is forgotten.This is a year long slog.Might as well say Hans Andersen imo will never do much,so why not throw Michael Jepsen Jensen in as he looks a very good prospect.

So,if we are going to have 1 rider in,then i think it should be Richardson.Firstly because at the moment Nicholls has failed miserably and Harris after showing some promise in his first year is also out of his depth and needs to have a break.That leaves Lee as our best rider at the moment.I am not convinced Bridger and Kennett will ever reach GP level.Tai will hopefully,but next year is really a year or so too soon.So to save him breaking his balls,let Richardson do it.........and give Tai the Cardiff wildcard and also see if he can qualify through the GP Challenge anyway.........

 

As for one off World Finals.Thing of the past.Looking at them through rose tinted glasses to some extent.Would we for instance be able to hold them in venues like Cardiff if you could only sign a contract for one year in every 4 or 5?Don't tell me we could hold some meaningless meeting there in the other 3 or so years......The SWC or something you will make up......Look at the investment in stadia in Poland and look at for instance the re-building going on at Vojens.Would this be happening to this extent if the venue was holding a GP every 4 years?I doubt it very much.I know,talking to one press officer at a Polish club that hosting GP's is very much on their minds.Sure it is in Olsens as well with his work at Vojens.

 

So there you go Parsloes.........enough for you to get going on.Just don't expect an answer if you post too late as i have to get up for work at 4 in the morning and don't spend all day in front of a computer

[Midland Red 2,383]

TBH, though I'd always prefer a one-off World Final (it was such an exciting event - by far the most exciting sporting even I've ever attended... ), a multi-round GP would be okay provided there's a fairer system of qualifying...

Only way to do this IMHO, is to start in early March (actually earlier with the Anzac rounds...) with qualifying in all of the countries, leading to meetings in April and May (along the lines of the old European Final, Intercontinental etc.). These bigger international eliminators would obviously take the place of the early GP Rounds. Then from June through to October (even later if there are indoor venues where the organisers can insure they're not 'rained off'... ) the multi-round GP series can run.

 

To me it's imperative that we start each year with a 'clean slate', so if one is a newer rider at the top of your game you have the chance to progress THAT year. Examples from the past are John Louis..: turns to Speedway from motocriss and within a year is in a World Final or Michael Lee, teenager in the second division, within two seasons in a World Final. This CAN'T happen today and that's not good for the sport nor does it encourage the ambitious and talented to take up the sport...

 

Venues who 'miss out' on GPs one year (though the qualifiers would be excellent meetings...) get a GP the next year and vice versa...

 

Totally agree!

(Would be interesting to see whether "a Rune Holta" would remain an adoptee of another country if he had an "easier" route via his own association!)

The main drawback to the GPs as you say is the calendar, it's not like you can run qualifying rounds through May-August for one September date, unless . . . . .

Perhaps there's a case for having a GP "circus" in September and October on (say 7) successive weekends, and then there'd be a chance of qualifying rounds in the same season

And league programmes could then be planned prior to the GP "season" so that riders could ride in the domestic leagues and domestic qualifiers during the earlier months

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

So,if we are going to have 1 rider in,then i think it should be Richardson.

 

 

Now THAT is hilarious...!!!