Sgp Challenge Final

[SCOTLAND1314 121]

In the early days of the Grand Prix you could hardly move for British riders - in the 1996 series, there were SIX British riders amongst the 17 competitors.

How times have changed.

 

All the best

Rob

 

And they largely performed very very poorly.... the more things change the more they stay the same....

[salty 2,202]

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious a lot depends on what happens in the last 4 rounds. Most obviously to determine who finishes in the top 8.

One nomination will go to Emil and it seems that any 3 from Andersen, Jonsson, Hancock, Pedersen and Harris will need a pick as well.

Unless Tai ups his game significantly in the last 4 GP's I can't see how he could be justified getting a pick ahead of any of the above riders. Other imponderables are possible retirements freeing up spots. Is it possible Kolodziej will have a wild card spot at Bydgoszcz to show us again what he can do?

 

Past history has shown that BSI/IMG want to have 2 Brits in the series, but really such a standpoint is becoming difficult to maintain as unfortunately the Brits aren't up to it.

I can see a scenario where Tai is given a second season "to grow" into the series, but to be honest I think such a move would make a total mockery of the event.

[BARNES 0]

Hello chaps, any chance of telling me who actually went through?

 

i just went through from page 12 and am still none the wiser.

[screm 8,057]

Never thought Id see the day that Simon Stead was just 5 rides away from the GPs.

Gollob,Pedersen,Crump can all rest easy this morning known that Stead didnt quite make it.

[beesknees 23]

Hello chaps, any chance of telling me who actually went through?

 

i just went through from page 12 and am still none the wiser.

 

Artem Laguta, Lindback and Lindgren, with Kolodziej and Zetterstrom defeated in a run-off for 3rd place by Lindgren.

 

Cheers

BK

[SuddenSam15 0]

1. Artem Laguta (Rus) - 3, 0, 3, 3, 3 = 12+3

2. Antonio Lindback (Swe) - 1, 3, 3, 3, 2 = 12+2

3. Fredrik Lindgren (Swe) - 3, 3, 2, 1, 2 = 11+3

----------------------------------------------

4. Janusz Kolodziej (Pol) - 3, 3, 3, 2, 0 = 11+2

5. Magnus Zetterstrom (Swe) - 2, 3, 0, 3, 3 = 11+1

6. Thomas H. Jonasson (Swe) - 2, 2, 1, 1, 3 = 9

7. Chris Harris (GB) - 0, 1, 2, 2, 3 = 8

8. Niels-Kristian Iversen (Den) - 3, 2, 1, 1, 0 = 7

9. Andrey Karpov (Ukr) - 2, 1, 2, 1, 1 = 7

10. Grigorij Laguta (Rus) - 2, 0, 2, 0, 2 = 6

11. Simon Stead (GB) - 1, 1, 1, 2, 1 = 6

12. Leon Madsen (Den) - 0, 0, 0, 3, 2 = 5

13. Roman Povazhny (Rus) - 0, 2, 3, X, 0 = 5

14. Grzegorz Walasek (Pol) - 1, 2, 0, 0, 1 = 4

15. Sebastian Ulamek (Pol) - 1, 0, 1, 2, 0 = 4

16. Tomasz Gapinski (Pol) - 0, 2, 0, 0, 1 = 3

 

 

From page 11

[mothorsen 39]

Hmmm. How can THJ and Walasek both get two points in heat 7? I remember it was a close race, but THJ was first over the line, wich sends Walasek down to 3 poins all together.

[racers and royals 8,736]

Hmmm. How can THJ and Walasek both get two points in heat 7? I remember it was a close race, but THJ was first over the line, wich sends Walasek down to 3 poins all together.

He was 3rd in heat 7 and scored 3 overall

[Robbie B 262]

From the Speedway GP website

 

VOJENS SCORES:

Artem Laguta (3-0-3-3-3) 12+3

Antonio Lindback (1-3-3-3-2) 12+2

Freddie Lindgren (3-3-2-1-2) 11+3

 

Janusz Kolodziej (3-3-3-2-0) 11+2

Magnus Zetterstrom (2-3-0-3-3) 11+1

Thomas H Jonasson (2-2-1-1-3) 9

Chris Harris (0-1-2-2-3) 8

Niels Kristian Iversen (3-2-1-1-0) 7

Andrey Karpov (2-1-2-1-1) 7

Grigory Laguta (2-R-2-0-2) 6

Simon Stead (1-1-1-2-1) 6

Leon Madsen (0-0-0-3-2) 5

Roman Povazhny (R-2-3-T-0) 5

Sebastian Ulamek (1-0-1-2-0) 4

Tomasz Gapinski (0-2-0-0-1) 3

Grzegorz Walasek (1-1-0-0-1) 3

Lukas Dryml ® 0.

[spook 28]

Judging from Kelvin's performance on SKY last monday ("Did you know there's 38 Aussies, that's right, 38, riding in GB?" "38!") I've got a pretty good idea where the blame will fall.

 

No Havelock? No Stonehewer?

 

HenryW quote

 

Not 100% sure of your point here, so I am just taking a guess that you thought he was criticising this situation...I don't think he actually said that, and he may very well not have meant that...He may just have been expressing some surprise at how well the Aussies were training up their kids to get into the league.

 

quite right Havvy should be there as someone who won something... and Stoney as someone who did it against the odds zorro style

 

re: Kelvin .... I don't think BFD has completely the wrong end of the stick Henry... I think he understood perfectly that the number was being used as a tool...... and imo Kelvin is correct to focus on that as one important stat because it reflects where the promoters heads are as much as anything else.......I'm not sure Kelvin was particularly looking to apportion blame on the Aussies though.... they are after all just taking opportunity and making a good fist of it.....

 

being fair though it isnt the most important stat...... there are others more important such as numbers of brits in their own league system.... number of training tracks..... level of support and sponsorship...... number of governing rules brought in to encourage investment in grass roots..... in fact probably the biggest stat is number of promoters who give a damn considering they rule themselves............

 

HenryW quote

 

In all honesty, GB probably hasn't been a genuine force since about the late 70's or very early 80's, but it has got much, much worse in the last 10 years.

 

......................

 

Since the early 2000's we haven't even had a contender.

 

exactly ...... I think we all expected Cross, Cox, Knight and co just to continue the work of generations before them but it didnt happen with the exception of a great night for Havvy........... I don't remember an issue with the amount of Brits in the leagues at that point though ... just a lessening of Brits making it to the very top.......... I am sure that if things had remained the same in the league system then that cycle would have been broken eventually

 

one thought is that despite it being widely criticised the old British League once had a policy of 1 mandatory british novice per team...... maybe it was just coincidence but one of those novices was Mark Loram

Edited August 22, 2010 by spook

[lucifer sam 3,953]

And they largely performed very very poorly.... the more things change the more they stay the same....

 

I don't think 7th & 8th in the world (Loram & Louis) was that bad at all. And Havelock was looking a possibility for a top three place that year, before the back injury that halted his GP career and left him never looking like quite the same rider ever again.

 

If only we had riders like that these days. No of permanent Brits in the GP between 1995 & 2002:

 

1995 - five out of 17 - Loram, Louis, Cocker, Havelock, Smith

1996 - six out of 17 - Loram, Louis, Screen, Havelock, Smith, Cocker

1997 - four out of 17 - Loram, Louis, Smith and Wigg

1998 - three out of 21 - Louis, Loram and Smith

1999 - three out of 22 - Screen, Louis and Smith (Loram won GP as wildcard - and indeed finished fifth in world as wildcard)

2000 - five out of 22 - WORLD CHAMPION Mark Loram, Louis, Screen, Stonehewer and Smith (plus Martin Dugard won British GP as wildcard)

2001 - five out of 22 - Loram, Stonehewer, Smith, Louis and Screen (although Screen was injured for entire series)

2002 - four out of 22 - Loram, Nicholls, Stonehwer and Smith.

 

None of the above Brits were seeded. They all qualified. Around 2001 is probably where it all started to go wrong. Loram had a disappointing defence as World Champion and wasn't a contender again, whilst both Louis & Screen suffered from injury. And the next generation, headed by Scott Nicholls, then failed to deliver.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited August 22, 2010 by lucifer sam

[ladyluck 1]

One of the biggest problems is the assessed averages, which seem to get progressively lower, especially at Premier League level. Chris Holder came in on an assessed average of seven or eight, but what would it be now? Three or four? As I recall Berwick's three Czechs came in on assessed averages of nine and now they'd be assessed at seven, perhaps even lower, given that the Czech Republic league isn't one of the "major leagues". It's all about getting the best for a given team in a given season and to hell with the sport as a whole. All the promoters (and, to be entirely fair, a large proportion of their fan base) are looking to get the next hot prospect from wherever on a false assessed average. The Coventry fans are, for the most part, delighted that Przemyslaw Pawlicki isn't going to get a proper average this season. As far as they are concerned, Pawlicki, one of the brightest prospects in Poland, on a low assessed average for next season is all to the good.

On the flip side of this, Artem Laguta suddenly becomes the most unwanted rider in British speedway, since his elevation to the GPs means that his assessed average goes from four or five to eight, just from the result of a single meeting. This meeting. The same happened with Emil Sayfutdinov, whose assessed average went from four or five to eight as a result of a decision made by BSI. It had nothing to do with a single performance on a speedway track. Everyone was looking at Sayfutdinov before that decision; interest dried up after it (although it was clear Sayfutdinov wasn't that keen on trying his hand in the UK).

Young riders are being developed by other nations and then being picked up by British promoters hoping to get a good rider on a falsely low average.

[ladyluck 1]

1995 - five out of 17 - Loram, Louis, Cocker, Havelock, Smith

1996 - six out of 17 - Loram, Louis, Screen, Havelock, Smith, Cocker

1997 - four out of 17 - Loram, Louis, Smith and Wigg

1998 - three out of 21 - Louis, Loram and Smith

1999 - three out of 22 - Screen, Louis and Smith (Loram won GP as wildcard - and indeed finished fifth in world as wildcard)

2000 - five out of 22 - WORLD CHAMPION Mark Loram, Louis, Screen, Stonehewer and Smith (plus Martin Dugard won British GP as wildcard)

2001 - five out of 22 - Loram, Stonehewer, Smith, Louis and Screen (although Screen was injured for entire series)

2002 - four out of 22 - Loram, Nicholls, Stonehwer and Smith.

 

Didn't Marvyn Cox, Simon Wigg and Andy Smith have nationality changes?

Since Martin Dugard's night of glory in Coventry, Great Britain has only claimed one GP win. It's a rather dreadful statistic. All those charity nominations have simply held British riders back. Being "Britain's best" has been enough to get into the GPs, no matter how mediocre the aggregate of British talent has been. Other riders who have paid the price of their GP failure have come back stronger in the long run. Hampel this year, for example, and Andersen and Holta before him.

The other thing to note about the "early days" of the GPs was the number of Americans, with Ermolenko finishing the first season of GPs third and then, of course, Billy Hamill and Greg Hancock winning in 1996 and 1997. Once Ermolenko and then Hamill fell by the wayside Hancock has ploughed a lone furrow.

Edited August 22, 2010 by ladyluck

[lucifer sam 3,953]

One of the biggest problems is the assessed averages, which seem to get progressively lower, especially at Premier League level. Chris Holder came in on an assessed average of seven or eight, but what would it be now? Three or four? As I recall Berwick's three Czechs came in on assessed averages of nine and now they'd be assessed at seven, perhaps even lower, given that the Czech Republic league isn't one of the "major leagues". It's all about getting the best for a given team in a given season and to hell with the sport as a whole. All the promoters (and, to be entirely fair, a large proportion of their fan base) are looking to get the next hot prospect from wherever on a false assessed average. The Coventry fans are, for the most part, delighted that Przemyslaw Pawlicki isn't going to get a proper average this season. As far as they are concerned, Pawlicki, one of the brightest prospects in Poland, on a low assessed average for next season is all to the good.

On the flip side of this, Artem Laguta suddenly becomes the most unwanted rider in British speedway, since his elevation to the GPs means that his assessed average goes from four or five to eight, just from the result of a single meeting. This meeting. The same happened with Emil Sayfutdinov, whose assessed average went from four or five to eight as a result of a decision made by BSI. It had nothing to do with a single performance on a speedway track. Everyone was looking at Sayfutdinov before that decision; interest dried up after it (although it was clear Sayfutdinov wasn't that keen on trying his hand in the UK).

Young riders are being developed by other nations and then being picked up by British promoters hoping to get a good rider on a falsely low average.

 

WadyWuck, I notice how you're now calling him Laguta.

 

But you've made a good point. Assessed averages are far too low. As far as the PL is concerned, any non-Commonwealth should come in on a 9.00 point average, and in the EL, it should be 6.00.

 

And BFD, I welcome the Aussies riding in our leagues, because the Aussies show commitment to riding in the British Leagues. They treat us as their surrogate home country, and ride in British meetings with passion. The problem isn't the Aussies, it's the Poles, Swedes, Danes, Germans and so forth who treat us as a third-world speedway nation and have British Speedway as thier bottom priority. It's these sort of riders we could do with getting rid of.

 

All the best

Rob

[lucifer sam 3,953]

Didn't Marvyn Cox, Simon Wigg and Andy Smith have nationality changes?

Since Martin Dugard's night of glory in Coventry, Great Britain has only claimed one GP win. It's a rather dreadful statistic. All those charity nominations have simply held British riders back. Being "Britain's best" has been enough to get into the GPs, no matter how mediocre the aggregate of British talent has been. Other riders who have paid the price of their GP failure have come back stronger in the long run. Hampel this year, for example, and Andersen and Holta before him.

 

Cox, Wigg & Smith were all British, whatever license they had at the time. And all rode with the British flag on their breastplate in the Grand Prix series.

 

But yes, the record of British riders in the Grand Prix from 2001 onwards is pretty awful. And you've missed out the main rider who came back from GP failure to greater glory: Mark Loram. Not qualifying for the 1999 series really got him to buckle down, and resulted in him being the deserving 2000 World Champion, he was the most consistent rider in the world that year.

 

All the best

Rob