BADGER69 33 Posted July 21, 2013 I think Poland winning will be good for speedway The use of the (joker) is controvertial as it is at the moment and may need amending in some way or chucking out altogether. Seeding the hosts through to the final is all about money. Trying to bring in a large crowd Does not work unless the home team has a chance of winning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted July 21, 2013 What a B****Y JOKE (no pun intended) the Speedway World Cup has turned out to be. Once again we are subjected to yet another case of the BEST Team losing. Denmark were streets ahead of any other Team - but - because of the B****Y STUPID 'Joker' System they LOST. No the wonder Speedway is a MINOR Sport - it is PATHETIC!! What can you do when the 'Powers that be' seem hell bent on destroying any little bit of CREDIBILITY and INTEGRITY that Speedway has left. Don't anybody tell me that this sort of thing will not put the General Public off Speedway - because believe me - IT WILL!!! CONTRIVING THINGS IS NOT SPORT - OR SPORTING!!!! :mad: :mad: 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) So the result would have been ................... Denmark 40, Poland 38, Aussie 30 and Czech 12 without the joker, proper result eh! Edited July 21, 2013 by Trees Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted July 21, 2013 Being a cynical sort, I became disillusioned with speedway when the Golden Double, Joker or whatever it's called came in. I no longer feel the sport is about honest racing and that it is important to win at all costs. I don't attend matches but still watch on TV. I question whether some of the riders are allowing others to pass in order to help the team use of this terrible ploy (the Golden Double, Joker etc). We witnessed it last year... Crump and Pedersen, who could go over the line slowest so to benefit their countries and warrant them use of the Joker. I thought after that farce it would be abolished, but, aye, it's good TV. So please don't whinge, promoters, about the stay away fans. This rule has made many disillusioned, and, like me, they watch on telly from now. So, has the Joker, the climax to last night and “It’s good TV” adage, would it have won any supporters back to the terraces? I doubt it. It is time to look at reality, question the actual impact of the Joker and such other gimmicks. Is it worth losing terrace support in favour of ones who find it good TV? If so, with an apparent hunger of catering for TV fans, in future you’ll be racing in empty stadiums. Is speedway a serious sport … or will it continue to go down the avenue of relying on pretty ladies, Joker cards and miss-a-go rules to stir up some reaction from stay-at-home Herbert’s? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjsj9803 326 Posted July 21, 2013 so MJJ bottled it again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manchesterpaul 447 Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) Being a cynical sort, I became disillusioned with speedway when the Golden Double, Joker or whatever it's called came in. I no longer feel the sport is about honest racing and that it is important to win at all costs. I don't attend matches but still watch on TV. I question whether some of the riders are allowing others to pass in order to help the team use of this terrible ploy (the Golden Double, Joker etc). We witnessed it last year... Crump and Pedersen, who could go over the line slowest so to benefit their countries and warrant them use of the Joker. I thought after that farce it would be abolished, but, aye, it's good TV. Wasn't just last year, it's happened a few times this World Cup too. The sport will know it's on the right path once FIFA decree when a team is two goals down their next goal will count double if they score. On the thought of other sports following speedway in it's 'innovations' i'm so itching to see if Manchester United or any of the teams in British football will take to the pitch hidden under black capes and then reveal themselves Cardiff style. Hey! according to some it's good tv innit! So wish that speedway would accept that winners should be allowed to win. The teams shouldn't be allowed to double points at any stage. Limited tactical substitutions are ok as pretty much all sports allow subs during a team competition. UPDATE Oooops sorry 'tmc' i've just gone scrollling back through the thread and saw your comment FOOTBALL Theory: Spain take a 2-0 first half lead against Italy in the final of Euro 2012, but to avoid another ‘boring and predictable’ runaway victory for the world champions, FIFA introduces a rule that if Italy score the next goal, it will count double. (FIFA are mad enough to actually consider doing this, but not yet.) Reality: Spain went on to win 4-0, underlining their class and superiority as deserving Euro champs. Edited July 21, 2013 by manchesterpaul 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emerald tyke 49 Posted July 21, 2013 I don't care how close it helps the scores stay, the joker is a pathetic ruling that penalises the team that is winning. Show me any other sport where a successful team is constantly penalised (i.e. averages, league title team usually needs to break it up. Joker last night, Denmark did not get to use it). Joke rule for a joke sport. Lets get back to basics... four riders racing for points (not riding to drop points to bring in the joker). Wouldn't that mean preparing a racing track not a gating track....or making all riders bike identical which they are not! ....LOVE this sport to bits but its not racing anymore, gates/gating make a difference to who wins and usually within the 1st/2nd bend. Until this changes no new supporters!. Ive recently been from Ireland to Somerset with newbies with me on a DAY trip....(500miles and sea crossing) and the one outstanding comment was "the racing NEEDS to be close"!! Well Done Poland though on doing something that Denmark would have also done had they the opportunity, (but it should be scrapped) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghostwalker 1,863 Posted July 21, 2013 so MJJ bottled it again I wouldn't say that, gate 2 and 3 were far better then gate 1 and 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted July 21, 2013 Wouldn't that mean preparing a racing track not a gating track....or making all riders bike identical which they are not! I agree, that needs to change too, but the joker saw riders 'pretend to have engine problems' just so they can drop points to use the joker. For me that simply makes a mockery of the term 'speedway racing'. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickthemuppet 976 Posted July 21, 2013 Wasn't just last year, it's happened a few times this World Cup too. The sport will know it's on the right path once FIFA decree when a team is two goals down their next goal will count double if they score. In many European football competitions the away goals do count double Then in Cricket the side scoring the most runs can still end up losers. The same in tennis and numerous sports you can win the most games and still be the loser. So it's not just Speedway that has stupid rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted July 21, 2013 In many European football competitions the away goals do count double Then in Cricket the side scoring the most runs can still end up losers. The same in tennis and numerous sports you can win the most games and still be the loser. So it's not just Speedway that has stupid rules. We have just had another major competition where the winners are victors by using artificial means... and I don't like it one bit. I don’t have any affinity for cricket and often scratch my head at some of the methods they use for deciding matches. As for football, you won’t see many walking away from that because it is forever bringing in silly rules nor would you get teams trying their hardest not to score because it may allow the other team to win! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,476 Posted July 21, 2013 Being a cynical sort, I became disillusioned with speedway when the Golden Double, Joker or whatever it's called came in. I no longer feel the sport is about honest racing and that it is important to win at all costs. I don't attend matches but still watch on TV. I question whether some of the riders are allowing others to pass in order to help the team use of this terrible ploy (the Golden Double, Joker etc). We witnessed it last year... Crump and Pedersen, who could go over the line slowest so to benefit their countries and warrant them use of the Joker. I thought after that farce it would be abolished, but, aye, it's good TV. So please don't whinge, promoters, about the stay away fans. This rule has made many disillusioned, and, like me, they watch on telly from now. So, has the Joker, the climax to last night and “It’s good TV” adage, would it have won any supporters back to the terraces? I doubt it. It is time to look at reality, question the actual impact of the Joker and such other gimmicks. Is it worth losing terrace support in favour of ones who find it good TV? If so, with an apparent hunger of catering for TV fans, in future you’ll be racing in empty stadiums. Is speedway a serious sport … or will it continue to go down the avenue of relying on pretty ladies, Joker cards and miss-a-go rules to stir up some reaction from stay-at-home Herbert’s? Agree maybe great tv viewing for any sports fan watching but doubt it will pack the terraces.Riders touring around looking at their bike to gain an advantage is not what the sport should be about.If Bjerre had slowed to finish 2nd it would have been a total farce in hindsight with the rules he should have.It certainly would have not been the "fantastic viewing " that the TV companies want. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pugwash 3,208 Posted July 21, 2013 . But we’re talking here about the Speedway World Cup – not darts, stock car racing, nor WWE wrestling, where ‘entertainment’ is king and credibility is . . . well, let’s face it, none of them are sports. Why are Darts and Stock Car Racing not sports? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BluTiger 21,719 Posted July 21, 2013 So the result would have been ................... Denmark 40, Poland 38, Aussie 30 and Czech 12 without the joker, proper result eh! Absolutely YES.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted July 21, 2013 so in 1982 my team - belle vue - won the bl . a number of their away wins came only as a result of using tactical rides after falling behind early. Without these "contrived" results it is quite possible that they may not have been champions. Was everyone similarly outraged, did everyone think this was a farce? when people went home after seeing their team win 40-38 away after using a heat 8 double tac sub to get an 8 pts swing did they go away feeling it was a hollow victory? i don't recall any such outcry (ps. i am actually in the camp that feels in sic there should be a reserve but no other tac subs, and there should b no joker or (my preference) any side which hadn't used it prior should b able to use in heat 20) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
