iris123 21,105 Posted January 6, 2017 If the success of my business depended on a critical component such as a track, then it would be absolutely a condition of my involvement to be have the right to inspect the construction - whether myself or by a track specialist. Yes, it's clear there were failures on the part of the council, but slippages are not unusual in construction projects and it's how they're dealt with. I agree.I thought they were flying around Europe looking at tracks trying to see what they wanted for a shape and surface etc,and not just looking at Vojens covers.So why they made a detailed plan of what they wanted and then just left it to someone else is strange.Basically it all seems a bit strange from before last season Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OveFundinFan 4,150 Posted January 6, 2017 If they did "fly around europe" looking at tracks then they did a cracking job - the track is a race track 110% Maybe because Manchester City Council was stumping up the money they ruled the roost, its a large powerful council, and maybe they were more dominant then Gordon and Morton on certain issues.Who knows. No one knows what went on, no one on this forum anyway, so its all guess work, and in the process of guessing the reputation of innocent individuals could be tarnished. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,105 Posted January 6, 2017 If they did "fly around europe" looking at tracks then they did a cracking job - the track is a race track 110% Maybe because Manchester City Council was stumping up the money they ruled the roost, its a large powerful council, and maybe they were more dominant then Gordon and Morton on certain issues.Who knows. No one knows what went on, no one on this forum anyway, so its all guess work, and in the process of guessing the reputation of innocent individuals could be tarnished. Of course.You have just made some guess work of your own which might also tarnish innocent reputations.Guess work is what makes up more than half of this forum.Thanks for the input Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 6, 2017 If they did "fly around europe" looking at tracks then they did a cracking job - the track is a race track 110% Maybe because Manchester City Council was stumping up the money they ruled the roost, its a large powerful council, and maybe they were more dominant then Gordon and Morton on certain issues.Who knows. No one knows what went on, no one on this forum anyway, so its all guess work, and in the process of guessing the reputation of innocent individuals could be tarnished. Dead right about the Track OveFundinFan. :approve: Of course.You have just made some guess work of your own which might also tarnish innocent reputations.Guess work is what makes up more than half of this forum.Thanks for the input Plenty of maybes in OveFundinFan's Post but I don't see any tarnished reputations there iris123. You are possibly right about guesswork as regards the Forum - I don't know. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted January 6, 2017 If the success of my business depended on a critical component such as a track, then it would be absolutely a condition of my involvement to be have the right to inspect the construction - whether myself or by a track specialist. Yes, it's clear there were failures on the part of the council, but slippages are not unusual in construction projects and it's how they're dealt with. If you were paying for it, absolutely. But Belle Vue weren't. As such, they probably had very little say regarding the building works and it should not be forgotten that David Gordon made it clear many times that staying at Kirky Lane was not an option, so they were over a barrel anyway. I suspect the size and shape was determined by Belle Vue - and they did an excellent job - and then they left the construction to ISG and the inspection of the works to the council. You must see that it was as much in the council's interests to have the stadium fit for purpose as it was Belle Vue's - as it stands, it seems they have lost a considerable amount of revenue as a result of their failure to ensure that the job was done properly. I really don't see how Belle Vue can be held culpable for the shoddy standard of workmanship here when they were neither those who had ordered the building of the stadium and were paying for it or the building contractor. It seems the courts agree : I fail to see how Gordon & Chris Morton were apparently successful in their counter litigation against the council unless that was the case. I agree.I thought they were flying around Europe looking at tracks trying to see what they wanted for a shape and surface etc,and not just looking at Vojens covers.So why they made a detailed plan of what they wanted and then just left it to someone else is strange.Basically it all seems a bit strange from before last season My suspicion is they were responsible for designing the track shape and size but that was it. After that, they had no input or influence whatsoever. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 6, 2017 My suspicion is they were responsible for designing the track shape and size but that was it. After that, they had no input or influence whatsoever. I think you are probably right about that HT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,983 Posted January 6, 2017 If you were paying for it, absolutely. But Belle Vue weren't. The Belle Vue promoters were putting money into a business that's 100% reliant on leased facilities. If those leased facilities needed to be constructed to a particular specification, I'd absolutely make it a condition of my lease to be able to inspect that the facilities met the necessary specification - at every stage of construction. I have some sympathy for the promoters who pursued a vision, eventually made it happen, but who appear to have been let down by other parties. Unfortunately though, that's the nature of doing business and the incompetence of others can cost you dearly if you neglect the supervisory process. As such, they probably had very little say regarding the building works and it should not be forgotten that David Gordon made it clear many times that staying at Kirky Lane was not an option, so they were over a barrel anyway. I don't know the ins-and-outs of the arrangements with Quirky Lane, but the new stadium was built to a tight schedule and construction overruns and deficiencies are not unusual. I'm not sure why a provisional agreement couldn't have been made to use the old stadium, or to delay the start of the season if there were any delays in delivery. You must see that it was as much in the council's interests to have the stadium fit for purpose as it was Belle Vue's - as it stands, it seems they have lost a considerable amount of revenue as a result of their failure to ensure that the job was done properly. The bottom line is that ultimately it doesn't matter where the blame lies. Two promoters have lost their shirts as a result, the council has lost a lot of revenue, and the reputation of the new stadium has been damaged. The Council should certainly be up to supervising the construction of stands and toilets, but I doubt they have any experience at all with constructing a speedway track and I absolutely wouldn't be reliant on them signing off something that important to my business. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghosty 500 Posted January 6, 2017 What have we here? a lot of people with views of what actions SHOULD have taken place! I think the whole thing is a technical legal mess with solicitors rubbing their hands with glee. The new Belle Vue is the best race track in the U.K. without a doubt & a must-have for a successful 2017 G.B. Premiership. Speed is not what solicitors do, unless things get sorted quickly are the Aces going to be at the tapes for 2017? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 6, 2017 What have we here? a lot of people with views of what actions SHOULD have taken place! I think the whole thing is a technical legal mess with solicitors rubbing their hands with glee. The new Belle Vue is the best race track in the U.K. without a doubt & a must-have for a successful 2017 G.B. Premiership. Speed is not what solicitors do, unless things get sorted quickly are the Aces going to be at the tapes for 2017? Is there a doubt like? Genuine question - you have me worried. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Little Thumper 528 Posted January 6, 2017 Is there a doubt like? Genuine question - you have me worried. I think you are lapsing into Yoof Speak! If you start using yeah, no and whatever then I shall get really worried. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 6, 2017 I think you are lapsing into Yoof Speak! If you start using yeah, no and whatever then I shall get really worried. Whatever. :nono: :rofl: Nuffink rong wiv de yoof of t'day - if only you can understand what they are saying. No wot ah mean Bruv. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Little Thumper 528 Posted January 6, 2017 Whatever. :nono: :rofl: Nuffink rong wiv de yoof of t'day - if only you can understand what they are saying. No wot ah mean Bruv. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,694 Posted January 6, 2017 Whatever. :nono: :rofl: Nuffink rong wiv de yoof of t'day - if only you can understand what they are saying. No wot ah mean Bruv. Nang bruv Datz sick blud foshizzle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted January 7, 2017 So the critics of the forums are quite right - a frank and honest exchange of differing opinions is not possible without some of the posters reverting to mindless, moronic levels of exchanges , nothing to do with the subject. How sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted January 7, 2017 While they were responsible for the meeting going ahead it was what any other promoter would have done, in fact promoters run meetings all the time on tracks with problems, don't they? Besides, if you walk in and find a hole or a crack or a soft patch you don't call the meeting off you fix it and don't expect it to come back. I thought we had seen a watershed moment at Belle Vue in March last year. A rider wasn't happy with a less than perfect track and got the meeting called off on the grounds that the track was only rideable and not raceable. The Belle Vue management came out in full view and accepted the decision and publicly backed the rider. Within a few weeks meetings went ahead at Swindon and Coventry on significantly worse tracks than Belle Vue with riders falling off all over the place and some tracks are just 'dangerous' anyway with more fallers in one average el meeting than all the el meetings added together all season at Belle Vue! Hardly the version I have heard of the activities a week before the meeting. This didn't happen overnight. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
