Birmingham Future In Doubt ? Alan Phillips Has Had Enough!

[salty 2,202]

. That's not true the GRA want speedway at PB that's fact ?...........

 

Time will tell. But the money the speedway brings in is only a small amount compared to the total income. You wouldn't blame them if they decided to wash their hands of the sport like they did at Oxford and Wimbledon.

[Stokielee 30]

So you are saying there isn't sufficient money within the individuals who are the BSPA to keep it open?

Russell, Ford, Mole, etc. The money could be found if they wanted to.

Has Phillips trod on a few too many toes and is he, therefore, being taught a lesson?

Would it be the first time that has happened?

[Guest]

Well, it looks like Graham Dury is going to spill some beams in tomorrow's Birmingham Mail. He's not one for holding back on an opinion, could be good reading.

 

Did the article mentioned appear in the 'Birmingham Mail' please.

[Fundinfan 41]

So you are saying there isn't sufficient money within the individuals who are the BSPA to keep it open?Russell, Ford, Mole, etc. The money could be found if they wanted to.Has Phillips trod on a few too many toes and is he, therefore, being taught a lesson?Would it be the first time that has happened?

will be very interesting to see how things pan out now. The BSPA have removed the Phillips from the equation much in the same way as Sandhu was dealt with by them, as he was too outspoken against them. Would not surprise me if the types who toe the party line aren!t involved in this conspiracy, the Drurys, Pearson, Mole and Morris come to mind.

[racers and royals 8,730]

will be very interesting to see how things pan out now. The BSPA have removed the Phillips from the equation much in the same way as Sandhu was dealt with by them, as he was too outspoken against them. Would not surprise me if the types who toe the party line aren!t involved in this conspiracy, the Drurys, Pearson, Mole and Morris come to mind.

You are another one who hasn`t got a clue-The Birmingham Promotion have run up possible debts of a figure that has 5 noughts with a 1 preceding it-and you think it`s a BSPA conspiracy to get them out.

[arthur cross 492]

Brum could be saved if the BSPA wanted to. If Brum shuts it's because the BSPA didn't want to keep it open.

What needs to be worked out are the reasons why that might be the case.

I don't easily leap to the BSPA's defence as a rule but, on this occasion, you've got completely the wrong end of the stick.

 

All the BSPA have done so far by annulling any licences held by the Phillips family is make it clear, in the wake of the chronic debts that have been run up, that they don't want the Phillips family involved in speedway anymore whether that's still with the Brummies in their current plight or at any other club in the future.

 

That clears the way for it to be worked out what's the way forward by a combination of the BSPA, the Brummies' fund-raising supporters and anyone interested in financially propping up Birmingham.

 

Clearly, the way the Brummies have been run lately in the Elite has gone horribly wrong to the extent they currently don't seem to have access to anything to do with speedway at their home track ... such chaos isn't going to be magically solved in a flash, not even with shedloads of money thrown at it, because a hell of a lot of goodwill needs repairing as well ... it also needs to be established what's a realistic level for the Brummies to tick-along safely in the future without tumbling back into another round of this current trouble.

 

Ask anyone at Plymouth in autumn-2012 how hard, and it proved successfully, Alex Harkess battled to find a solution to "life beyond Mike Bowden" for the Devils ... the BSPA hate seeing any club close.

 

If you're going to start chucking round a comment like "it's because the BSPA didn't want to keep it open", perhaps you'd like to explain in more detail your reason(s) behind making such a statement.

 

I doubt you've either the knowledge or the guts to do that ... go on, prove me wrong !!

Edited July 5, 2014 by arthur cross

[Stokielee 30]

It's my opinion, no more-no less, that money would keep it open.

You are disagreeing with that opinion, you are entitled to do so.

I don't understand why you would be so aggressive in doing that.

Have you listened to the BBCWM interview?

Edited July 5, 2014 by Stokielee

[arthur cross 492]

It's my opinion, no more-no less, that money would keep it open.

You are disagreeing with that opinion, you are entitled to do so.

I don't understand why you would be so aggressive in doing that.

Have you listened to the BBCWM interview?

Yes I've listened, not just to the BBC-WM interview, but also to various angles of this awful situation who've taken the trouble to get in touch with me following some of my other posts on this thread in recent days.

 

And you're perfectly entitled to state your own personal opinion like you've just done above.

 

But chucking a potentially libellous statement arond like "it's because the BSPA didn't want to keep it open" when, sure enough, you've confirmed you lack any knowledge to back it up and swiftly admitted it's just your personal opinion utterly deserves what you feel to be aggressive contempt.

 

No-one with any well-respected speedway knowledge or clout has made any effort whatsoever to defend either Alan or Charles Phillips since this story exploded 10 days ago ... surely if they'd been badly treated by the BSPA or anyone else, someone would step forward to be quoted in their defence ? !!

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for anyone to do so.

Edited July 5, 2014 by arthur cross

[Bryce 349]

I don't know any of the individuals involved, but I certainly got the impression listening to the interviews, that Tony Mole (a respected figure with a strong track record in speedway) has little or no trust in the Phillips family.

 

It's not in the interests of anyone in speedway to see a club fold. I'm therefore minded to think that the BSPA would try and help to keep the Brummies alive if possible. The fact that they don't seem to want to do business with Alan and Charles Phillips is damning.

 

Add in the Drurys, Phil Morris etc, and a pattern begins to develop.

[semion 2,192]

Sounds like the BSPA are setting it all up nicely for El President Tony Mole to walk back in on the cheap.

 

Jobs for The boys ?

[arnieg 3,643]

Sounds like the BSPA are setting it all up nicely for El President Tony Mole to walk back in on the cheap.

Jobs for The boys ?

I hope so!!!

 

Most of the supporters of clubs he has been involved with have been grateful for Tony Mole's involvement. I am sure all Brummie supporters would be happy to see his return.

 

And the idea of coming in "on the cheap" seems pretty ludicrous. Firstly there's the matter of the outstanding debts which will by and large need to be covered to reestablish some goodwill, and secondly the losses generated for the remainder of the season will have to be covered. (Or do you think that TM is such a svengali that he can make Birmingham profitable overnight?)

 

And just what is the value of Birmingham's licence? It seems to be no more than 'an entitlement to lose money' (a state of affairs that would continue in 2015 in the PL, although hopefully on a more manageable scale).

[racers and royals 8,730]

I hope so!!!

 

Most of the supporters of clubs he has been involved with have been grateful for Tony Mole's involvement. I am sure all Brummie supporters would be happy to see his return.

 

And the idea of coming in "on the cheap" seems pretty ludicrous. Firstly there's the matter of the outstanding debts which will by and large need to be covered to reestablish some goodwill, and secondly the losses generated for the remainder of the season will have to be covered. (Or do you think that TM is such a svengali that he can make Birmingham profitable overnight?)

 

And just what is the value of Birmingham's licence? It seems to be no more than 'an entitlement to lose money' (a state of affairs that would continue in 2015 in the PL, although hopefully on a more manageable scale).

You would do well to listen to Arnieg-as he has had past experience of Dodgy Promoter`s owing money !!!

[uk_martin 1,606]

Listened to the show on the radio. Philips was making out that he was the victim of a BSPA conspiracy. What he said gave rise to a number of questions that needed the BSPA to answer. What a shame that they weren't there. Seems that the BSPA are hiding in their nuclear bunker waiting for the fall out to settle before, as Semion said, letting one of their own have it all on the cheap.

Is it right that the "bond" that is lodged with the BSPA is only in the £8,000-£10-000 bracket (Philips said that Birmingham's bond was £8,500), and that having debts in excess of that are enough of a serious breach of regulations that the SCB can close a team down? But for the grace of god then...

Philips stated, and no-one from the BSPA was there to answer the point, that he recognised that he had a short term cash flow issue and that it would be solved by an advance of the Sky money that the BSPA have in their bank (he says) to overcome the difficulties. Philips said that he applied to the BSPA for an advance and the BSPA refused to assist, and that alerting them to the cash flow shortage was what triggered the process of throwing the rule book at him. I wonder what the reply to that from the BSPA would have been?

Birmingham's management were never liked in BSPA circles, as they were on the other side of the boardroom civil war to BSPA "Old Boy" Graham Drury. They liked to do things their way, and that did tend to rub establishment figures up the wrong way, so it comes as no surprise now that no-one in the BSPA wants to see Philips or anything/anyone connected with Philips survive, whether he has the cash to bail out the debts now or not.

We got one side of the story on the radio. Who knows what was true and what wasn't. Tony Mole pointed out that he was only an honourary president of the BSPA and didn't have an executive role, so wasn't aware of all the information, so coudn't answer back for the BSPA. One thing is for sure, time is running out, and there's a game of "hardball" going on over the future of Birmingham Speedway. Philips isn't blinking, Mole doesn't know what to blink about (he says) and the BSPA weren't blinking there.

So so sad that it's all come to this.

Edited July 5, 2014 by uk martin

[The Voice Of Reason 2,124]

Whilst I do not blame the BSPA for Mr. Phillips predicament, nor expect them to bail the club out, I have to say a few things having listened to the programme.

 

First and foremost, for the BSPA to not attend is exceptionally poor positioning. Their reasoning for not attending is, to be honest, totally incredulous.

 

Secondly, Tony Mole, as a person allied to the association, appeared a very confused individual. To be perfectly honest, his performance was quite embarrassing to listen to. He added very little value with his input; contradicted himself regularly; and appeared somewhat vague to some of the questions directed towards him. Not being present at the meeting with Alan Phillips makes one question what his actual responsibilities as Chairman consist of? Is this guy actually getting a wage from the BSPA? I seriously hope not. Moreover, surely even if he was unable to attend such an important meeting, are we to believe that it's content was not minuted? "I was told......." Carried the depth of a grain of sand. Moreover, that good old cliche "we've been working very hard......." just had to also creep in, didn't it. Forget about 'working very hard' Mr Mole (by the way, turning up for important meetings would be a start) - what are you, or your association, doing in order to expedite the apparent non-payment of riders by, I now believe, FOUR other clubs?

 

Mr Phillips meanwhile was similarly unconvincing. Again, a fair few contradictions; albeit he has brought about a new excuse - no longer "the cheque's in the post" but nowadays it's a case of "our Internet banking went down". And yes Mr Phillips, this excuse did indeed sound somewhat unbelievable.

 

Then finally, along comes a breath of fresh air in the form of Tiff(?). Someone that could actually converse well, answer all questions posed fluently and genuinely sounded concerned about the future of her club without apportioning blame. But then, Tiff is a Speedway Supporter, so should we really be surprised.

 

Finally, fair play to the commentator who at least tried to get a resolution to the current problem; something which I now have to question is the genuine goal of either the BSPA, or the current Birmingham Promotion.

 

Good Lord, no wonder this sport is in such a complete and utter mess.

Edited July 5, 2014 by The Voice Of Reason

[arthur cross 492]

Twice in that BBC-WM interview, following-on from his statement earlier in the week, Charles Phillips claimed that the Brummies are still awaiting their "away money" from the clubs who hosted Birmingham's last 5 away meetings.

 

I don't blame BBC-WM's Mark Regan for not asking the vital questions in response to such a claim ... he can't be expected as a radio presenter to know the nitty-gritty of speedway finances.

 

But until the Phillips family confirm whether they're up-to-date with sending the away money to all their opponents who've visited Perry Barr, this claim that they're owed 5 lots of away money is an obvious sob story (especially to non-speedway fans) that needs proper scrutiny, especially if it's actually the case that Birmingham owe any particular club more away money than they're claiming is being owed to themselves by that same club.

 

So it's up to either Alan or Charles Phillips to answer these simple questions ... where, in relation to the overall debts the Brummies have run up, does the club stand regarding any outstanding away money to teams who've visited Perry Barr ? !! ... and if there is outstanding away money like that, once it's factored into this claim of being owed from the Brummies' last 5 away trips, how many clubs then still owe the Brummies ? !!

 

Only if the first answer is correctly "the Brummies don't owe any away money to other clubs", thus rendering the second question unnecessary, does this claim by Charles Phillips about being owed the last 5 away monies deserve any credibility at all.

 

 

Tony Mole, as a spokesperson of the association, appeared a very confused individual. He added very little value with his input; contradicted himself regularly; and appeared somewhat vague to some of the questions directed towards him. Not being present at the meeting with Alan Phillips makes one question what his actual responsibilities as Chairman consist of? Is this guy actually getting a wage from the BSPA? I seriously hope not. Moreover, surely even if he was unable to attend such an important meeting, are we to believe that it's content was not minuted? "I was told......." Carried the depth of a grain of sand. Moreover, that good old cliche "we've been working very hard......." just had to also creep in didn't it. Forget about 'working very hard' Mr Mole (by the way, turning up for important meetings would be a start) - what are you (or your association) doing in order to expedite the non-payment of riders by, I believe, FOUR other clubs?

I think you've been confused as to the various strands of why Tony Mole was on the BBC-WM programme.

 

He is the Honorary President of the BSPA, not as you put it "the Chairman" (that's Edinburgh's Alex Harkess).

 

All it amounts to is a ceremonial title bestowed on Tony Mole by the BSPA a few years ago as a type of "lifetime recognition" award for his vital work behind-the-scenes at a number of clubs, among which happen to be both the 1980's and current versions of the Brummies ... such a ceremonial title doesn't carry either a waqe from the BSPA or the need to attend any of their business.

 

It was his close ties in the past to the Brummies plus potential future ties as well that led to him appearing on BBC-WM rather than in any official BSPA role ... however, the fact of that Honorary President's role undoubtedly gives him a particular perspective on what's going on at the BSPA and that was brought into today's programme.

 

And as I've explained earlier in this post, any claim from Birmingham that they're owed 5 lots of away money requires as much scrutiny at Birmingham's end as it does at the BSPA's end.

Edited July 5, 2014 by arthur cross