What The Visa Issues Could Mean For Teams.

[SCB 0]

Here's proof this is not a unique speedway problem:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/celtic_crusaders/8207827.stm

 

http://www.superleaguefans.com/rugby-league/2011/04/28/ukba-to-work-closer-with-super-league-clubs.html

 

Every sport has to comply, and every sport has misunderstood the regulations at times.

 

All the best

Rob

All you seem to have done in your last few posts is agree with myself and BWitcher and disagree with Tsunami British Speedway at EL and PL level is and has been for a long time full of a multitude of nationalities - many of whom are great for British speedway (thought IMO theres more than a few who add very little). Speedway is NOT treated harshly and not getting any mucky end of the stick when it comes to visas as other sports have been found out in the past or stick to them already employing less foreigners (work permits or not).

 

Before we bemoan how bad we have it compared to other sports, as some have done. They should maybe do a little research as BWitcher and I did and you have done now. Then we realise as a sport, we don't get a bad deal (depending on your idea of good/bad - I'm still not sure the likes of Mason Campton having a 3rd season is "good" for GB speedway)

[Willowman 212]

Here's proof this is not a unique speedway problem:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/celtic_crusaders/8207827.stm -- 2009

http://www.superleaguefans.com/rugby-league/2011/04/28/ukba-to-work-closer-with-super-league-clubs.html -- 2011

Every sport has to comply, and every sport has misunderstood the regulations at times.

 

All the best

Rob

Speedway is just 4 years behind the times!

Edited January 26, 2015 by Willowman

[SCB 0]

Are the arguaments on here, about who can and who cannot come to the UK to work irrelevant, as the rules in place were very clear to the employers. The problem has arisen because either they ignored the rules set down, or were ineptly ignorant of the rules. In both cases the members of the BSPA have created a problem that was not really there,

The issue is that some clubs have employers riders incorrectly (so probably, technically, illegally) even where it was possible to employ them correctly at times. They have also allowed riders to double up "illegally" and take guest bookings. There are a number of things that as an employer of a work permit person an employer must do/provide and must clubs have not done that.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

All you seem to have done in your last few posts is agree with myself and BWitcher and disagree with Tsunami British Speedway at EL and PL level is and has been for a long time full of a multitude of nationalities - many of whom are great for British speedway (thought IMO theres more than a few who add very little). Speedway is NOT treated harshly and not getting any mucky end of the stick when it comes to visas as other sports have been found out in the past or stick to them already employing less foreigners (work permits or not).

 

Before we bemoan how bad we have it compared to other sports, as some have done. They should maybe do a little research as BWitcher and I did and you have done now. Then we realise as a sport, we don't get a bad deal (depending on your idea of good/bad - I'm still not sure the likes of Mason Campton having a 3rd season is "good" for GB speedway)

 

SCB, I'm not really sure who I've ended up agreeing and disagreeing with - unlike some, I don't come on here just for a good argument, but rather to make my own point.

 

But I do disagree with anyone trying to place the place solely at the door of the BSPA and the promoters. It's quite clear, after doing minimal research, that other sports have had similar problems e.g. Rugby League, which had to get its house in order. It's just taken UKBA/UKV&I a bit longer with the less high-profile sport of speedway.

 

All the best

Rob

[racers and royals 8,727]

 

SCB, I'm not really sure who I've ended up agreeing and disagreeing with - unlike some, I don't come on here just for a good argument, but rather to make my own point.

 

But I do disagree with anyone trying to place the place solely at the door of the BSPA and the promoters. It's quite clear, after doing minimal research, that other sports have had similar problems e.g. Rugby League, which had to get its house in order. It's just taken UKBA/UKV&I a bit longer with the less high-profile sport of speedway.

 

All the best

Rob

You might have thought that in that case the BSPA /promoters would have done more to ensure that their sport didn`t get embroiled in the problems the other sports had.

[bigcatdiary 3,165]

The issue is that some clubs have employers riders incorrectly (so probably, technically, illegally) even where it was possible to employ them correctly at times. They have also allowed riders to double up "illegally" and take guest bookings. There are a number of things that as an employer of a work permit person an employer must do/provide and must clubs have not done that.

It surely would be interesting to know which clubs have failed to fulfill visa obligations and for the authorities to punish them rather than the whole league.

[racers and royals 8,727]

It surely would be interesting to know which clubs have failed to fulfill visa obligations and for the authorities to punish them rather than the whole league.

Edinburgh for starters-as they have admitted http://www.edinburghmonarchs.co/news/article.asp?id=1921

[BWitcher 12,453]

BWitcher, your stats are impressive.

 

However, I don't quite see what League 2 has to do with it.

 

In terms of level:

Elite League = football's Premiership

Premier League = football's Championship

 

The National League is then at a much lower level, maybe on par with the Blue Square Premier/Conference in football.

 

So, the obvious question is, non-British players in football's Championship? In particular, players on a visa. How many are there?

 

Even then, any comparison is just that... a comparison. As every sport is unique. Some are easy to play, with e.g. just a pair of boots. Others require far more equipment, skill, etc.

 

All the best

Rob

 

As SCB stated, I was merely refuting Tsunami's claim regarding the lower levels of football.

 

I did also offer him a get out option by stating the Championship was an entirely different matter as there are many foreigners in it (although mostly EU). He stuck to his guns and insisted it was work permits in lower leagues than that he was referring too.

 

You seem fully aware of the situation though and I agree with most of what you say... the exception being I don't think it was a case of 'lack of education' as the rules for the permit are pretty clear... more a case of seeing what they could get away with in traditional speedway style

[witches forever 2]

It's a case of come here and pay into the system ie income tax = you can F*** off,

don't pay, come here to freeload and send money back to your home country = welcome, here's jsa, child benefit, child tax credits and heres a nice hime to keep it all safe in.

This countries immigration system/policy is so f***** up. Just the other day a little 7 yr old British boy was deported to a country he has never know. His mother came over from Nigeria escaping the somebody 8yrs ago had her baby was granted asylum. She registered her baby boy here in Britian thus making him a British citizen accept him into the school system for 5 yrs spending money on his education whilst his mum worked and paid into the system they were described as pillars of the community. So what is the UKBA decision deport her back to Nigeria with here British son, Now surely this is an illegal act by the British government. So as i siad earlier this country is seriously F***** up.

[The White Knight 9,039]

I'd like to know what evidence you present in favour that argument. However, once again, illegal immigrants are by definition illegal and don't follow the rules, either by sneaking into the country in the back of a truck or by overstaying after entering the country legitimately.

 

It's very difficult for the authorities to tackle this, in particular the overstayer problem. What they can do though, is ensure that the rules are applied to the prospective immigrants or seasonal workers they do know about, or are you suggesting the rules should simply be ignored for speedway riders?

Well at least they, and other Sportsmen and Women, have a job to do - unlike some of the other ne'er do wells that we are accepting at the moment. You are right when you say that it is difficult for the Authorities but they should be clamping down really hard instead of dancing around the issue trying not to offend anyone.

 

If the Authorities really were getting a grip, I would find the problem with Australian and American Speedway Riders easier to understand.

[Grachan 7,362]

It surely would be interesting to know which clubs have failed to fulfill visa obligations and for the authorities to punish them rather than the whole league.

Who is being punished? Nobody is being punished. The whole sport is being told it has to do things properly, and they are offering a "workshop" to educate them.

 

Ineligible riders may find themseves without work permits, but that's not punishment. That's because they are not entitled to one.

 

The maximum penalty for employing illegals is 2 years in prison and a £20,000 fine. Have any club promoters been given that? I haven't heard of any. Just visas put on ice until they sort out the proper way of doing things and do things by the book.

It's a case of come here and pay into the system ie income tax = you can F*** off,

don't pay, come here to freeload and send money back to your home country = welcome, here's jsa, child benefit, child tax credits and heres a nice hime to keep it all safe in.

This countries immigration system/policy is so f***** up. Just the other day a little 7 yr old British boy was deported to a country he has never know. His mother came over from Nigeria escaping the somebody 8yrs ago had her baby was granted asylum. She registered her baby boy here in Britian thus making him a British citizen accept him into the school system for 5 yrs spending money on his education whilst his mum worked and paid into the system they were described as pillars of the community. So what is the UKBA decision deport her back to Nigeria with here British son, Now surely this is an illegal act by the British government. So as i siad earlier this country is seriously F***** up.

I saw a petition about this, and wondered about that. If he is a British citizen he can't be deported, surely. I'm often suspicious of these casess that come to light, as there is often something in them that doesn't quite add up.

Edited January 26, 2015 by grachan

[SCB 0]

It's a case of come here and pay into the system ie income tax = you can F*** off,

don't pay, come here to freeload and send money back to your home country = welcome, here's jsa, child benefit, child tax credits and heres a nice hime to keep it all safe in.

This countries immigration system/policy is so f***** up. Just the other day a little 7 yr old British boy was deported to a country he has never know. His mother came over from Nigeria escaping the somebody 8yrs ago had her baby was granted asylum. She registered her baby boy here in Britian thus making him a British citizen accept him into the school system for 5 yrs spending money on his education whilst his mum worked and paid into the system they were described as pillars of the community. So what is the UKBA decision deport her back to Nigeria with here British son, Now surely this is an illegal act by the British government. So as i siad earlier this country is seriously F***** up.

Honestly, do people read whats going no before they launch into rants? What makes you think they're "paying into the system"? And so what if they are, Mason Campton has been here 2 years "paying into the system" but while he's "paying in" some British riders have been on the dole. Get rid of Campton and co and the Brits have jobs.

 

All the UKV&I are asking here is that speedway clubs follow the rules that you expect all others to follow. Imagine this was "Mr Wongs Chinese chip shop", would you be having the same rant then? Or is it only because it's a sport you follow? Speedway clubs have been breaking the law FFS!

 

And what about the speedway riders who go home without paying tax? And leaving debts over here? Why do you think some foreigners have a year or two over here and then disappear fro the UK? They owe people (including the tax man) money!

Edited January 26, 2015 by SCB

[YAMYAMBANDIT 560]

Who is being punished? Nobody is being punished. The whole sport is being told it has to do things properly, and they are offering a "workshop" to educate them.

 

Ineligible riders may find themseves without work permits, but that's not punishment. That's because they are not entitled to one.

 

The maximum penalty for employing illegals is 2 years in prison and a £20,000 fine. Have any club promoters been given that? I haven't heard of any. Just visas put on ice until they sort out the proper way of doing things and do things by the book.

 

I saw a petition about this, and wondered about that. If he is a British citizen he can't be deported, surely. I'm often suspicious of these casess that come to light, as there is often something in them that doesn't quite add up.

YES YES YES.

Honestly, do people read whats going no before they launch into rants? What makes you think they're "paying into the system"? And so what if they are, Mason Campton has been here 2 years "paying into the system" but while he's "paying in" some British riders have been on the dole. Get rid of Campton and co and the Brits have jobs.

 

All the UKV&I are asking here is that speedway clubs follow the rules that you expect all others to follow. Imagine this was "Mr Wongs Chinese chip shop", would you be having the same rant then? Or is it only because it's a sport you follow? Speedway clubs have been breaking the law FFS!

 

And what about the speedway riders who go home without paying tax? And leaving debts over here? Why do you think some foreigners have a year or two over here and then disappear fro the UK? They owe people (including the tax man) money!

SAME YES FOR THIS ASWELL

[Robinh88 571]

what a shambles...

[YAMYAMBANDIT 560]

what a shambles...

Only British Promoters can scale these heights of ineptness, world class in this field