iris123 21,084 Posted July 12, 2015 A bit like Iris who had to suggest that "I don't understand a statement" when in fact I just don't agree! No you obviously didn't understand.I mentioned education or educating people to understand the full implications of the flag and how it offends a large number of people.Rather like other examples I have mentioned in this topic.You came back with some rubbish about why should people be told to be offended!!!! You obviously didn't understand,becuse no-one has said anyone should be told to be offended,but it seems reasonable that they should know that others are and is it really a symbol worth using.........Lack of understanding on your part without doubt or you are just trying to argue for the sake of it despite understanding. And there was an article on the Beeb about the use of the flag in other countries and of course there was no mention of it in Somerset !!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted July 12, 2015 No you obviously didn't understand.I mentioned education or educating people to understand the full implications of the flag and how it offends a large number of people.Rather like other examples I have mentioned in this topic.You came back with some rubbish about why should people be told to be offended!!!! You obviously didn't understand,becuse no-one has said anyone should be told to be offended,but it seems reasonable that they should know that others are and is it really a symbol worth using.........Lack of understanding on your part without doubt or you are just trying to argue for the sake of it despite understanding. I'm all for that iris123. The Confederate Battle Flag has a great History and Tradition. It should be honoured for that. The Racist scumbags who have hijacked the Flag for their own ends are the problem not the Flag. I have said many times that a lot of brave men died under that Flag, the full implications and History of the Flag should be taught in Schools in America - you are right. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,084 Posted July 12, 2015 I'm all for that iris123. The Confederate Battle Flag has a great History and Tradition. It should be honoured for that. The Racist scumbags who have hijacked the Flag for their own ends are the problem not the Flag. I have said many times that a lot of brave men died under that Flag, the full implications and History of the Flag should be taught in Schools in America - you are right. People can't make a reasonable decision if they are ignorant of the facts or they don't want to know the facts.In essence there is nothing wrong with german flags from the Kaisers period,but they have also been hijacked by racists and so people associate them with racists and in the end just the red,white black colours get associated with racists because they often wear clothes with those colours to identify themselves.We have even had problems here with some clothing company from Norway because it is associated with neo-nazis...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted July 12, 2015 People can't make a reasonable decision if they are ignorant of the facts or they don't want to know the facts.In essence there is nothing wrong with german flags from the Kaisers period,but they have also been hijacked by racists and so people associate them with racists and in the end just the red,white black colours get associated with racists because they often wear clothes with those colours to identify themselves.We have even had problems here with some clothing company from Norway because it is associated with neo-nazis...... I would have no problems with the Kaiser's Flags either (Nazi one's I would have a problem with). Nor would I have a problem with the Cross of St. George. Same old scumbags everywhere unfortunately. This is why folk should be educated regarding the true meaning of these Flags. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFCB Wildcat 1,362 Posted July 12, 2015 No you obviously didn't understand.I mentioned education or educating people to understand the full implications of the flag and how it offends a large number of people.Rather like other examples I have mentioned in this topic.You came back with some rubbish about why should people be told to be offended!!!! You obviously didn't understand,becuse no-one has said anyone should be told to be offended,but it seems reasonable that they should know that others are and is it really a symbol worth using.........Lack of understanding on your part without doubt or you are just trying to argue for the sake of it despite understanding. And there was an article on the Beeb about the use of the flag in other countries and of course there was no mention of it in Somerset !!!! Who needs educating? I'm 51 years old & until recently I had no Idea that the flag was offensive & I suspect that not many people in this country black or white did. Now we all do. So now it gives idiots who want to cause offence something to rally behing & those it's aimed at a reason to be offended. That's my point. Oh well I'll just carry on being blssfully thick and let superior people like you educate people how to cause offence! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted July 12, 2015 Who needs educating? I'm 51 years old & until recently I had no Idea that the flag was offensive & I suspect that not many people in this country black or white did. Now we all do. So now it gives idiots who want to cause offence something to rally behing & those it's aimed at a reason to be offended. That's my point. Oh well I'll just carry on being blssfully thick and let superior people like you educate people how to cause offence! It's not that AFCB Wildcat. The American Civil War is one of my great interests. I have read copious books on the subject since I was fifteen. The problem is that my memory is failing these days and I can't remember half I learned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,084 Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Who needs educating? I'm 51 years old & until recently I had no Idea that the flag was offensive & I suspect that not many people in this country black or white did. Now we all do. So now it gives idiots who want to cause offence something to rally behing & those it's aimed at a reason to be offended. That's my point. Oh well I'll just carry on being blssfully thick and let superior people like you educate people how to cause offence! See there you go again.You admit you were ignorant of the facts and then get all narky at the suggestion of education.I am always willing to learn and I hope that will never end.I don't know why you need to feel the need to suggest educated sensitive and sensible people want to cause offence.Like I said,if you are ignorant of the facts how can you form an educated opinion?Like you say,you don't really want to Edited July 12, 2015 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFCB Wildcat 1,362 Posted July 12, 2015 It's not that AFCB Wildcat. The American Civil War is one of my great interests. I have read copious books on the subject since I was fifteen. The problem is that my memory is failing these days and I can't remember half I learned. I didn't really mean my ignorance of the history of the flag TWK just my ignorance that people were offended by it and I still think that is their problem if they wish to attach a sinister significance to it and take offence where none is intended. My late next door neighbour was a big country western fan who went to line dances and had the flag across the bonnet of his Ford Sierra. There wasn't a racist bone in his body so why should his enjoyment of the flag be spoilt by someones offence. Okay I take Iris's point that it may be wise to know it may case offence to a minority but we can't all spend our lives treading on egg shells because people want to hold on to hitorical grievances and that was my point. Just seems odd to me that you get accused of arguing on a discussion forum just because you have a different view to them. I'm not suggesting other peoples views are less valid than mine, I'm just saying what I think and to be asked if I want to return to the racist attitudes of the 70's because I don't think the flag should cause offence seems a bit rude! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sotonian 610 Posted July 12, 2015 So, it may be a trivial matter here but it isn't elsewhere. Somerset keeping the image won't cause a diplomatic incident but it would be intelligent and sensitive to consider a change for next year, but then speedway doesn't 'do' 'intelligent' does it? In which case, leave it alone and worry about the wider problems currently afflicting the sport. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,974 Posted July 13, 2015 The Confederate Battle Flag has a great History and Tradition. It should be honoured for that. The Racist scumbags who have hijacked the Flag for their own ends are the problem not the Flag. I have said many times that a lot of brave men died under that Flag, the full implications and History of the Flag should be taught in Schools in America - you are right. There were many in Wehrmacht and undoubtedly even in the SS as well who fought honourably and bravely during WW2, but few would suggest that's a reason to retain the symbols of the Nazi regime. The Confederacy was also a separatist and some might even say treasonous entity that resulted in families (especially in the border areas) being forced to fight on different sides, and it was not for some noble gesture of political freedom or emancipation, but to preserve the system of slavery. We argue about the rights and wrongs of using Confederate flag, and frankly it doesn't bother me one way or the other, but if society ultimately deems it to be offensive, I don't think the fact that people fought under it should come into it. This is why folk should be educated regarding the true meaning of these Flags. It's the problem when people attach far to much symbolism to a piece of cloth. Flags were devised to identify warring parties and ships on the high seas, and should remain their primary purpose. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Maybe it's about time to, forget what's happened in the past, look to the future and move on,,, cos we just keep going round in circles, lets have a nice cup of tea and everything will be fine Edited July 13, 2015 by ruffdiamond 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Skid 426 Posted July 13, 2015 If it was OK for the BBC on the General Lee, then it's OK by me, let's face it, the Union Jack isn't exactly squeaky clean when it comes to slavery, opression, and the like, look on the bright side, we did make the Aussies what they are today, perhaps we did go too far with the Irish and Scots years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanF 295 Posted July 13, 2015 The issue with the Confederate Flag has played out exactly as it should. If you believe that the Civil War was fought over slavery, then it is clearly offensive to Americans of color, and opposition to the flag is significantly more than just being PC. If you believe that the Civil War was fought over states rights then we have a win win situation here. The southern state of South Carolina voted to remove the flag from government buildings. It made the decision itself with no pressure from the Federal government. If you are a White Southerner, the process worked exactly how you fought for it to work, so you should be happy. Walmart, TV Land etc. made their own commercial decisions to remove the image. Again, no government interference so nothing to complain about. If you don't like it, don't shop at Walmart. Plenty of other places to buy your flag. Nobody is trying to ban the flag from any private home or business. Somerset should make their own decision. If the name and logo offends you, don't go the track. If it offends enough paying customers, they will change it rather than continue to lose money. Nobody needs to ban anything. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted July 13, 2015 Maybe it's about time to, forget what's happened in the past, look to the future and move on,,, cos we just keep going round in circles, lets have a nice cup of tea and everything will be fine No sugar in mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted July 13, 2015 No sugar in mine. ye sure ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
