Somerset And The Confederate Flag

[YerRopes 3,009]

Is my username offensive to some people on this forum. If it is, maybe they should strip white city of the 1977 league championship, and remove the oxford rebels from the speedway history books!

 

No your username isn't offensive..

 

But ignorance isn't an excuse..

[SCB 0]

 

I have never heard of anyone - until this thread - objecting to the Confederacy flag on any grounds whatsoever.

Actually, it has been mentioned on the forum in the past. I remember arguing about it on here.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,959]

So, in your opinion, you have to be black to be offended by it then?

 

I could understand why it may offend Black Americans, but not black people in the UK. Several nations practiced slavery, not least Denmark which was one of the biggest slave trading nations, yet no-one calls for the banning of the Danish flag in speedway.

 

I think the Confederate flag has been misappropriated by extremists, and whilst it does stand for a regime that supported slavery, hardly more so than the Union and many other nations at the time. Rightly or wrongly, it's also one of the most globally recognised symbols of rebellion which is undoubtedly why it's prevailed over the years, whereas other banners have vanished into obscurity.

Taking it to ludicrous conclusions, some might indeed find such emblems offensive (although I suspect that if everyone's objections were taken into account we'd be left with Barrow's appalling 'Happy Faces' and little else).

 

Do Robins offend anyone?

All this fuss about the confederate flag, it wasn't an issue for left wingers when it was used by the Democrats Bill Clinton and Al Gore.

 

So if Bill Clinton and Al Gore saw fit to use it, no problems for Somerset!

 

Well of course Southern Democrats stood for segregation and many of the racist laws introduced in the post-Civil War period. The Republicans were wiped out politically in the southern states for a century afterwards, although by Clinton's time there had been a swing back in their favour so maybe he needed to appeal to those old 'traditional' voters.

 

There were some ghastly Southern Democrats - one even leading the Senate into the 2000s.

[Truro Robin 39]

Is my username offensive to some people on this forum. If it is, maybe they should strip white city of the 1977 league championship, and remove the oxford rebels from the speedway history books!

The word 'Rebel' is obviously not offensive. You may be missing the point!?

 

Yes, and American. It has no relevance in the UK and frankly is the least of speedway's worries.

If it has "no relevance in the UK", why is it being used at all then?

[Tsunami 10,219]

The word 'Rebel' is obviously not offensive. You may be missing the point!?

 

If it has "no relevance in the UK", why is it being used at all then?

Because it is being used in a different context. Should we now ban James Dean's iconic film 'Rebel without a Cause".

[Truro Robin 39]

Because it is being used in a different context. Should we now ban James Dean's iconic film 'Rebel without a Cause".

You too are missing the point.

 

I'm not talking about the word 'rebel' being offensive, but the Confederate flag itself.

 

Somerset have every right to have 'Rebels' as their nickname but perhaps they could be a bit more sensitive / imaginative with their race jacket design.

[Robbie B 262]

Instead of moaning about whatever the flag has come to be associated with. I think that a far more valid point is that in the USA ordinary members of the public are allowed to buy and own automatic weapons. If they weapons weren't available to the general public in the beginning then I doubt that this tragedy, or any other in the future would happen. But guns will never be outlawed in the USA because of the NRA no-matter how many people died on this day, or in the future they are just too powerful an organisation.

 

A flag maybe a rallying point for certain types people, but it people with guns that kill, and not any kind of flag, so I can see no reason why any sports team should remove the Confederate flag from their designs.

 

I have also noticed that eBay UK has stopped the sale of images of the Confederate flag on it's website. The US website I think are just removing the Confederate flag image, so that they cannot be sued in the future, as we all know about the USA litigious society.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Robbie B

[ruffdiamond 6,115]

Some people just like to moan,,, a mean, well guns have uses but your limited to what you can do with them, you can shoot stuff with them and cosh someone over the head when you run out of bullets,,,

but, a flag is far more useful,,,

you could fly it from your window,

you could wrap yourself in it if your cold,

it could be used as a table cloth or picnic blanket,

use it as a throw to cover an old settee, or use it as curtains,

it has loads of uses, tying people up, strangling people, or even smothering them,,,

Edited July 3, 2015 by ruffdiamond

[Truro Robin 39]

Instead of moaning about whatever the flag has come to be associated with. I think that a far more valid point is that in the USA ordinary members of the public are allowed to buy and own automatic weapons. If they weapons weren't available to the general public in the beginning then I doubt that this tragedy, or any other in the future would happen. But guns will never be outlawed in the USA because of the NRA no-matter how many people died on this day, or in the future they are just too powerful an organisation.

 

A flag maybe a rallying point for certain types people, but it people with guns that kill, and not any kind of flag, so I can see no reason why any sports team should remove the Confederate flag from their designs.

 

I have also noticed that eBay UK has stopped the sale of images of the Confederate flag on it's website. The US website I think are just removing the Confederate flag image, so that they cannot be sued in the future, as we all know about the USA litigious society.

Congratulations! You are the first person to use the "it's guns that kill, not flags" cliché.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

I personally think Somerset should continue using their current emblem and their nickname, however, due to this thread I was drawn to noticing today, that someone in Ipswich had the confederate flag opened out in their lounge window. Why? I have no idea, unless it resembles a local sporting team who also uses the flag. Or is it someone being provocative. If it is the latter, this is always the risk. Things are hijacked for moronic purposes.

[Guest]

I personally think Somerset should continue using their current emblem and their nickname, however, due to this thread I was drawn to noticing today, that someone in Ipswich had the confederate flag opened out in their lounge window. Why? I have no idea, unless it resembles a local sporting team who also uses the flag. Or is it someone being provocative. If it is the latter, this is always the risk. Things are hijacked for moronic purposes.

 

No reason why the Confederate Flag should not be flown. It's not illegal even in the USA, Just not going to be flown on PUBLIC buildings, No more than that, Just another typical "BSF storm in a tea cup" thread. Target - more pages than the ill-themed Darcy Ward scenario carried elsewhere on here.

[iris123 20,990]

All this comparing the flag to the Danish or British or Portuguese etc is complete nonsense.The Danish flag etc isn't controversial ,because Denmark has existed for hundreds of years and over that period slavery is just one small part of the Danes history,so the flag isn't associated with slavery.The Confederacy existed for a very small period of time and they didn't really achieve much in the way of social reforms or manage to become associated in peoples minds with anything else apart from fighting to try and maintain slavery.

[SCB 0]

Congratulations! You are the first person to use the "it's guns that kill, not flags" cliché.

Nah, I got in with that one last week on general discussions

[The White Knight 9,039]

You too are missing the point.

 

I'm not talking about the word 'rebel' being offensive, but the Confederate flag itself.

 

Somerset have every right to have 'Rebels' as their nickname but perhaps they could be a bit more sensitive / imaginative with their race jacket design.

You are talking nonsense. The Battle Flag itself is an emblem, it is representing a people who fought for the their Freedom, as they saw it, 150 years ago. An awful lot of people died for that Flag and it deserves respect for that alone whichever side of the Divide you are on, Black or White. What it has come to mean today is the problem. I agree that it should be banned, not because of the Flag itself but what that Flag has come to represent.

 

Instead of moaning about whatever the flag has come to be associated with. I think that a far more valid point is that in the USA ordinary members of the public are allowed to buy and own automatic weapons. If they weapons weren't available to the general public in the beginning then I doubt that this tragedy, or any other in the future would happen. But guns will never be outlawed in the USA because of the NRA no-matter how many people died on this day, or in the future they are just too powerful an organisation.

 

A flag maybe a rallying point for certain types people, but it people with guns that kill, and not any kind of flag, so I can see no reason why any sports team should remove the Confederate flag from their designs.

 

I have also noticed that eBay UK has stopped the sale of images of the Confederate flag on it's website. The US website I think are just removing the Confederate flag image, so that they cannot be sued in the future, as we all know about the USA litigious society.

Much as Truro Robin likes to scoff at the idea - you are right, and no amount of scoffing will change that.

 

Congratulations! You are the first person to use the "it's guns that kill, not flags" cliché.

That doesn't make him wrong. (See above).

[iris123 20,990]

You are talking nonsense. The Battle Flag itself is an emblem, it is representing a people who fought for the their Freedom, as they saw it, 150 years ago. An awful lot of people died for that Flag and it deserves respect for that alone whichever side of the Divide you are on, Black or White. What it has come to mean today is the problem. I agree that it should be banned, not because of the Flag itself but what that Flag has come to represent.

 

 

I'd tend to disagree.We have had Humphrey tell us that Wernher von Braun wasn't a Nazi as such,he was a scientist who wanted to send rockets to the moon.He just joined the party to help further those aims.He used slave labour to help those aims.It was the thing to do at the time and he had absolutely no idea of the conditions these people worked,lived and died in.He never saw any of that,as he was too busy making rockets to send to London and Coventry.But he didn't want to hurt people,he just wanted to send a rocket up to the moon.He was a good guy really.There were in fact lots of good guys who were members of the Nazi party and hardly anyone knew what was happening to the jews and the homosexuals and any other group.So do we say the swastika is a symbol we should fly as a memory of all those good guys who died fighting with it on their helmets or uniforms?

 

Distance tends to weaken the strength of a symbol.I once went to France and was shocked to see Red Army Faction t-shirts on sale.Now I doubt they would have been worn on the streets of Germany.I wouldn't at all be surprised if IRA t-shirts were on sale in America or Australia,but doubt anyone who might have had one would wear it on the streets of London etc.Same with Shining Path t-shirts or any other symbol.I am fairly sure most people in the Uk who might have a Confederate shirt or tattoo wouldn't walk some streets and Cities in America with it openly on display,like they might in the UK.They know the meaning and conotations.I'd guess that is the same for Americans as well.They would be careful of where they showed off their flag,t-shirt or tattoo........