chunky 6,123 Posted June 19, 2017 Not forgetting Hasse Holmqvist as well. I never rated Hasse quite as highly as the others that have been mentioned, although he rode well at Wembley in '69. I think another one who could rate alongside Hasse was Leif Enecrona, but I never really saw much of him... Steve 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,567 Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) We're all guilty of being biased towards the eras we spectated most frequently. I'm no different. But I am still surprised to see any debate around Per Jonsson being in the top five Swedes ever. He was a full deserving World Champion, achieved with some spectacular overtaking too. I'd also say he was the best in the world during 1992. I wouldn't begrudge Gary Havelock, he took his chance when it came. If not for an untimely thunderstorm in Wroclaw, then the outcome may have been different that day. I also saw him pick off Havvy in the semi-final at Bradford that showed incredible expertise and left me in no doubt as to who was the better rider that year. I thought he was such a technically excellent rider, he had a tremendous ability to 'carry speed' like few others. He was one of those who truly had it in him to overtake the very best riders in the world. I'm not sure you can say that of all the world's best ever riders. At the time of his career-ending accident, he was at his peak and I think he had another World Title or two well within his range. For me, it's less about the debate between Jonsson, Sjosten, Nygren and the rest. I'd say Per Jonsson should be debated alongside Michanek and Knutsson as the third best ever Swede. Edited June 19, 2017 by falcace 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,123 Posted June 19, 2017 At the time of his career-ending accident, he was at his peak and I think he had another World Title or two well within his range. I certainly get your points, and I cannot disagree with the fact that could have added more world titles, but the fact is - he didn't... It's always tough when careers are cut short, particularly at an early stage, and whether it is Per, Tommy, Cegielski, Ward, or whoever, comparing potential against achievement is very difficult. I think Kenny Carter is a prime example; as good as he was, he never fulfilled his potential. There are other riders - Bengt Jansson and Soren Sjosten, for example - who, although not succeeding in winning the title, produced a number of excellent performances over a lengthy career. Steve 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I never rated Hasse quite as highly as the others that have been mentioned, although he rode well at Wembley in '69. I think another one who could rate alongside Hasse was Leif Enecrona, but I never really saw much of him... Steve Hasse was last known to be the mechanic to 'Posa' Serenius...the ice racer. Edited June 19, 2017 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted June 19, 2017 Have to agree with Falcao. To me: Funding and Rickardsson are clearly 1 and 2. Hard to see past knuttson and Michanek for 3 and 4. And per Jonsson I thought clearly number 5. World champion and had his career cut short while at his peak preventing him adding to it. And under a gp system may well have been a world champion, which couldn't be said of any of the others being mentioned for that spot. I'd have to assume it comes down to "era bias"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,567 Posted June 19, 2017 I certainly get your points, and I cannot disagree with the fact that could have added more world titles, but the fact is - he didn't... It's always tough when careers are cut short, particularly at an early stage, and whether it is Per, Tommy, Cegielski, Ward, or whoever, comparing potential against achievement is very difficult. I think Kenny Carter is a prime example; as good as he was, he never fulfilled his potential. There are other riders - Bengt Jansson and Soren Sjosten, for example - who, although not succeeding in winning the title, produced a number of excellent performances over a lengthy career. Steve Yep, I agree with a lot of that. It's not provable that Per Jonsson would have won more titles. BUT, the fact that he had already won one makes it much more credible that he would have won again, having already climbed the mountain once. Something that cannot be said of the rest who sadly had their careers cut short. Although if backed into a corner, I'd say Ward would have won it one day. The rest? Hmmm, probably not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,061 Posted June 19, 2017 Think you just have to look at someone like Peter Collins,maybe even Lee.You would have put money on it that they would once they got that first title have added to it......but they never did.I could speculate that Tommy would have gone on to be a multiple champ,but it is just that.Guess work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted June 19, 2017 Barry Briggs won't forget Hasse, who collected him coming off the fourth bend and put him into the fence and out of the GB v Sweden test match at Wolverhampton in 1968. The Swedes developed a habit of damaging Briggo in the late 60s and early 70s. They certainly did. That is why I have no use for Bernt Persson who T-Boned Briggo in the 1972 World Final. Cost him his thumb and, in my opinion, another World Championship. I was so pleased when Mauger beat Persson in the run-off. He killed off Persson's chances before ever the Tapes went up. Mauger totally out psyched him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted June 19, 2017 OK-recognise these are guys I saw pre-68 but nevertheless was aware of their accomplishments until the mid 70's (we oughtta have a thread titled maybe "Many years gone by"!!!). #1 no question has to be Fundin #2 Michanek #3 Knutsson #4 Sjosten #5 Nordin-never got to see some of the others mentioned Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted June 19, 2017 After the very sad death of Tommy Jansson Sweden started to decline as a world power. It must be remembered that Jan Andersson kept the flag flying during those barren years until the likes of Henka Gustafsson, Jimmy Nilsen and Per Jonsson appeared on the scene. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 19, 2017 Have to agree with Falcao. To me: Funding and Rickardsson are clearly 1 and 2. Hard to see past knuttson and Michanek for 3 and 4. And per Jonsson I thought clearly number 5. World champion and had his career cut short while at his peak preventing him adding to it. And under a gp system may well have been a world champion, which couldn't be said of any of the others being mentioned for that spot. I'd have to assume it comes down to "era bias"? As much as i liked Per i dont think when he won it it was anywhere near as tough a era as some of the others named were in.The others named even 1970/76 Sweden were very very strong indeed saying that i do believe Jonsson would of won another title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OveFundinFan 4,145 Posted June 19, 2017 Think you just have to look at someone like Peter Collins,maybe even Lee.You would have put money on it that they would once they got that first title have added to it......but they never did.I could speculate that Tommy would have gone on to be a multiple champ,but it is just that.Guess work Peter Collins could well have had 3 on the trot. 1975 could well have been a win had someone irresponsibly not watered the track. and in 1977 in Sweden was just a week after smashing his leg on a grid cover - I was there that night at BV and unusually I was stood on the bend where it happened. Sickening 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Collins often gets forgotten certainly the 1975 dustbowl at Wembley and in 77 he was very unlucky.Lee if you look he had chances in all of his six finals 1983 was the one that got away.One win two rostrum places and a fourth place from Lee was not bad when you look at Collins WF record now it looks like he underachieved .So false really because he was one hell of a rider in with Mauger,Olsen,Michanek as the best from 73 / 77. Edited June 20, 2017 by Sidney the robin 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybikespeedway 75 Posted June 21, 2017 My top and Totally Biased 1 Ove Fundin 2Olle Nygren, 3 Gote Nordin 4 Tony Rickardsson 5 Toby Harrysson 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyMac 720 Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) When we interviewed Anders Michanek for Backtrack in 2004, we asked him where he thought he stood in the pantheon of Swedish speedway greats. This is what he said... Among Swedish legends WHERE does Anders Michanek stand in the all-time list of Swedish greats? Ove Fundin, with five individual world titles to his credit, is undoubtedly the King of Sweden. “Definitely, Ove has to be top,’’ agrees Anders. “He was so special, I don’t know how he could ride because he was so thin and his mind was more on arts and everything except the technical side of speedway. “We were riding in a Golden Greats meeting together. We were at the hotel, Fundin, Benga Jansson and me, but while Benga and myself wanted to take a look at the track, Ove said he would prefer to go and see the Black Knight appearing at some local castle! “I would be ever so happy to be ranked in third place among all the Swedes – behind Ove and (six times World Champion) Tony Rickardsson,” added Mich. “Tony actually had me sacked when I was the trainer at Rospigarna but I wasn’t too bothered. I’m not bitter. “Even if I don’t like the Grand Prix system much, I know that Tony is a very good rider. He’s still the best Swede today and, of course, I respect him.’’ Anders became a World Champion for the first time when he scored 10 points as the Swedes won the Team Cup at Wembley in 1970. He won the World Pairs title with two different partners over three consecutive seasons – the late Tommy Jansson (1973) and Soren Sjosten (1974 & ’75). Would Tommy have been individual World Champion had he lived? “Yes, I think so, definitely,’’ says Anders. “Once, in a qualifying round at Ullevi, I offered Tommy my bike when he had trouble with his. He won the race but afterwards he said: ‘How the hell can you ride a bike like that?’ I knew what he meant, because I bent my frame on purpose to give me more drive, but Tommy wasn’t used to it.’’ For what it's worth, my top 5 (in order of merit) would be: 1. FUNDIN 2. RICKARDSSON 3. MICHANEK 4. NYGREN 5. BENGT JANSSON I never saw Bjorn Knutson. Edited June 21, 2017 by tmc 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
