A ORLOV 8,628 Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said: Tuesday will see only three teams really capable of going through bar some bizarre event as GB, Australia and Sweden are far too strong for the rest and Milik on his own cant save the Czechs. So basically three heats of equal standards and twenty just to fill up the programme. Hope GB give Bewley a few rides even if it's against the mighty Finland and Italy. May be a great track but not a great format unless it's the finals with seven capable teams. Why would they give Bewley a few rides when he is not in the team, the last I heard it was Woofy, Cook and Lambert, but Lambert should be given a few rides 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,821 Posted June 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said: Tuesday will see only three teams really capable of going through bar some bizarre event as GB, Australia and Sweden are far too strong for the rest and Milik on his own cant save the Czechs. So basically three heats of equal standards and twenty just to fill up the programme. Hope GB give Bewley a few rides even if it's against the mighty Finland and Italy. May be a great track but not a great format unless it's the finals with seven capable teams. Bewley isn’t in the team anymore. He should never have been given the place according to the rules. Yet another Rosco mess up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler42 150 Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, TheReturn said: I do take your point Tyler, but most seasons it would be Poland v one other nation who happen to have a good four riders capable of matching Poland. At least with this format there should be three or four nations capable of putting decent pair of riders together. Even though Poland have won quite a few times. I still think the finals have been very competitive. Last year was the worst in terms of scores, as Poland won it by a big margin. They scored 50 the third place team Russia scored 18!! but if you look at the last four finals before that, the scores have been very close. and in two of them finals Denmark won one and Sweden the other. I agree with you that in theory it should give more nations a chance to be competitive. Lets hope Tuesdays fair produces a bit better racing than tonight and hopefully we will see a great final. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,821 Posted June 2, 2018 4 hours ago, marko said: Not being funny Phil but will Aces fans be supporting Woffy as we all know what they think of him. Not all GB fans present will be Aces fans. Anyone would be pathetic for not supporting ANY rider representing team GB on Tuesday. Plus we have our best and realistically only chance of achieving something with Woffy riding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted June 3, 2018 Some seem to have very short memories, there were many 'qualifying' events in the World Cup in years gone by that were similarly poor with out of depth teams. It was always the race off and Final where things stepped up a notch and I daresay that will be the case in the Final of this event. Also, why are people moaning so much about the team being 2nd and 3rd going through? You might bleat they won the race... they also came last in the race. It's a pairs event. Come last, you're out. I can remember many, many occasions in the past when Wolves needed a 4-2 in the final heat.. if Ermolenko was in it for example, he wouldn't just clear off if he made the gate, he'd do everything he could to slow the race down, change lines and get his partner through.. and many times was successful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 3, 2018 Busy weekend so had to watch this on delay tonight and for once I really do wish I hadn't bothered. The line about adding to the variety of teams and giving those a chance who couldn't raise a full four man team. Well, several 'teams' tonight couldn't raise two competitive riders. It was a night of nostalgia, but not of the pleasant kind, watching Germany capitalising on home advantage on a crap track in a poor stadium. It was so reminiscent of Norden in 1983, but for some reason we have to do our bit to prop up German speedway by allocating meetings to their inadequate tracks. Oh yes, another bit of nostalgia, 'Pocking Hell'. Oh for the good old World Team Cup, whatever happened to it? Then next week, more nostalgia with a two day final. Oh the triumph of Amsterdam in 1987! Some learn from mistakes. The FIM just plough on, propping up the backwoods of speedway while letting major nations go to pot (Poland excepted) as a result. The tail has wagged the dog at the FIM for decades. Back in the 70s the World Championship qualifying system was rigged to favour the east Europeans with the result being endless Pole, Russian and Czech no-hopers occupying the bottom of the scorechart. Nothing changes - the minor nations had too much say then and do have now, although who is major and who is minor has changed. We didn't need to change to a poor race format to get the Latvian upset last year and I very much doubt whether we'll see any this year, apart from pious comments about "wonderful to see the minor nations competing", - but are they? Will they? They're in the meeting and while some had one good, competitive rider overall they were just making up the numbers. The only surprises tonight were how poor the Latvians were after last year's success and even with home advantage, how many the Germans scored. The track looked inconsistent and was catching too many quality riders out. There was nothing on the outside line with the little racing on offer giving 'kerb crawling' a bad name.... The delays at the end were unacceptable but the least acceptable aspect of the whole TV 'extravaganza' was the commentary over heat 21. Declaring both teams out so definitively was sloppy commentating and well below the normal or required standard. I'm sure both they and their producer will know as well. Surely someone on the production team can monitor the scores and tell the commentary team when they're wrong? I know back in the early days of Sky coverage the late Bryn Williams was on hand to advise Tony Millard if necessary. Like someone else said, it made even One Sport's pairs events look good and I never thought I'd ever say that! Let's hope for better on Tuesday, and that we aren't bored rigid by 42 qualifying heats to see who makes it to a final where it's not about winning, just not finishing last. Good luck, explaining that to those casual viewers that are so carefully cared for in the commentary! Pairs events just do not suit knock-out systems. I was going to say winner takes all but, well, er.....can you hype "second and third TAKE ALL". I fear we will find out all too soon. It's okay having semis and finals for events like the Championship Pairs at Somerset - that's a fun night out before Cardiff. This isn't, and certainly "Raceoff 1" was far from amusing, unless you were a drunk German....... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Lady 5,400 Posted June 3, 2018 10 hours ago, iainb said: All you moaners should try and keep talking positively for 3 hours... I expect the commentators to keep me informed. They didn't make clear that Karpov's warning lasted the whole meeting, even after he was excluded. They mucked the scores up and until long after it was mentioned on here didn't allude to the fact that USA could not progress following Manzares injury. Less repetition would be good, tho apparently that is at the producers behest. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said: Like someone else said, it made even One Sport's pairs events look good and I never thought I'd ever say that! Spot on absolutely, I was amazed to have even thought so, which illustrates what a borefest it was. But Ta Ra! I salute you all posters for the best entertainment on here for ages! Truly, Well Done One and All. Far more entertaining than the meeting. It's all pointless until the last race of the 2nd day of the Final. Unbelievable! If this is the best that Armando C. can lead the FIM to, the sport is really down the pan. There should at least be a bonus point for the race winner to add to the counting, when it comes to crunch time. Edited June 3, 2018 by waytogo28 Additional point made Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSC67 1,465 Posted June 3, 2018 I'm glad I recorded this and watched it when I got home from Berwick, after four heats I was bored and ready to switch off if I'd been watching live I'd probably have been channel hopping. There where a couple of decent heats but not an awful lot too get excited about Ionly hope Tuesday is an improvement . I fast forwarded through all the drivel so never really heard Stadler & Waldorf get confused about the scores , deleted it straight away after watching it certainly not a meeting I'd want to se again. Watched the far more IOM TT highlights afterwards so at least some of tv viewing was enjoyable 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted June 3, 2018 NOT the best start, I must admit, but hopefully;y there will be far better racing at the NSS on Tuesday and then again in Wroclaw. The worst possible scenario, of course, is that after nearly 100 races we get to the final, Joe Bloggs is excluded for a tapes offence, and the two opposition guys ride round waving to the crowd knowing they cannot be beaten.What an anti-climax that would be. No doubt there will be a comprehensive post-mortem after Wroclaw but whether the FIM revert to the SWC or continue with the SON the lack of viability for tracks staging these events, especially the qualifiers, ,remains a big issue. As far as I know the only alternative to Wroclaw this year was Belle Vue but while Polish fans, given the popularity of speedway there and their fervent national enthusiasm, might support a two-day event cannot see it working anywhere else including the UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil The Ace 2,860 Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, marko said: It’s so contrived when a team could go unbeaten on Friday and Saturday and be top scorers by 20 points or even more ahead of second place and still not be the champions. That's no difference to the GPs. Can go all nightnunbeaten but then beaten In final. That is sport these days. Can finish top of league. And loose play off semi. A team can be winning the whole match only for a 5-1 From opposing team in heat 15 to a win after a 1-5. People may say the races are meaningless to the last race but actually they are not. They need to score enough points to make the top 3 to get in the finals of the competition. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil The Ace 2,860 Posted June 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: NOT the best start, I must admit, but hopefully;y there will be far better racing at the NSS on Tuesday and then again in Wroclaw. The worst possible scenario, of course, is that after nearly 100 races we get to the final, Joe Bloggs is excluded for a tapes offence, and the two opposition guys ride round waving to the crowd knowing they cannot be beaten.What an anti-climax that would be. No doubt there will be a comprehensive post-mortem after Wroclaw but whether the FIM revert to the SWC or continue with the SON the lack of viability for tracks staging these events, especially the qualifiers, ,remains a big issue. As far as I know the only alternative to Wroclaw this year was Belle Vue but while Polish fans, given the popularity of speedway there and their fervent national enthusiasm, might support a two-day event cannot see it working anywhere else including the UK. When we had the 2 day event in Manchester a few years ago. It was well supported. All though it was much cheaper at something like £25 for both meetings. If they did that both days would have 5-9k there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Star Lady said: I expect the commentators to keep me informed. They didn't make clear that Karpov's warning lasted the whole meeting, even after he was excluded. They mucked the scores up and until long after it was mentioned on here didn't allude to the fact that USA could not progress following Manzares injury. Less repetition would be good, tho apparently that is at the producers behest. you never made a mistake at work? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,958 Posted June 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: No doubt there will be a comprehensive post-mortem after Wroclaw but whether the FIM revert to the SWC or continue with the SON the lack of viability for tracks staging these events, especially the qualifiers, ,remains a big issue. As far as I know the only alternative to Wroclaw this year was Belle Vue but while Polish fans, given the popularity of speedway there and their fervent national enthusiasm, might support a two-day event cannot see it working anywhere else including the UK. No doubt, lessons learned, blah blah... Anyone with half-a-brain could see the problems with the format, which have been discussed in depth on here. And even if there’s a half-decent crowd at Wroclaw, it doesn’t bode well for the future of the competition when the ‘Final’ has to be held outside of Poland. Or is the Final always going to be in Poland, which hardly fulfills the stated aim of taking the competition to a ‘new audience’. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted June 3, 2018 41 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said: When we had the 2 day event in Manchester a few years ago. It was well supported. All though it was much cheaper at something like £25 for both meetings. If they did that both days would have 5-9k there BUT it wasn't the same teams competing for an accumulated score with a result only on the second day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
