Deano 1,318 Posted August 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, Wardey said: Deano, as you have made meaningful suggestions, I feel it is fair to quote you. Only 3 riders per team?? How many laps do you think. I like your suggestion, but wondering how you would extend the meeting (timewise) so that fans get a good day out for x number of hours. I totally agree with the opening of the mikes, makes people feel part of the game/meeting. Rugby does it well & even cricket when the fielders are mike'd up....however could you guarantee clean language? lol Thanks i thought three so every team would have a rider not used by anyone else. I guessed at 19 stand alone teams and about 80 odd riders. i thought perhaps it could be used to bring the admission price down. Less riders to pay, less rider overheads. Could it last two hours? Maybe, depends how many laps it is ridden over. A normal meeting is circa 60 laps, each rider doing about 16 laps in a normal meeting of 4 rides. to reduce costs I guess they’d need to do less maybe 10 each? So could about 35 laps last two hours.. probably not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lbw 869 Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Moto GP is in a different stratosphere to Speedway.... It has a world wide following, particularly strong in the bike buying market of Asia.... As Poland proves, run the sport 'properly' and big business will engage with it, fans will follow it in numbers, and TV companies will pay plenty for the rights to cover it, out bidding each other to do so.. Run it like the BSP's do and they simply can only ever get what they have got.... No amazing secret to its malaise, no puzzling lack of success driven by its operating model... It simply cannot be any other way.... Maybe instead of reinventing itself it should just concentrate on undoing all the nonsense it allows to pervade which drives fans away annually? I am sure many thousands who no longer regularly go are still out there as 'followers' of the sport and plenty of them could be enticed back if they saw a 'proper team sport' being presented weekly in front of them... Agree entirely with you. Concentrating on undoing itself could well be achieved by having an independent body running the sport that so many of us keep screaming out for but deaf ears are running the sport. But that would still be reinventing itself if it had independent body. And yes Motogp is on a different level to speedway but speedway wouldn't be asking for the mega money that Motogp presumably gets. Thought Godfrey said they had a high profile marketing person on board who nearly, yes nearly, secured 2 major sponsorships.......ponder ponder righty oh!! What happened to her? Edited August 11, 2021 by PirateShip 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lbw 869 Posted August 11, 2021 I remember at Long Eaton once there was a circus in town and Johno went round the track on a camel. That's entertainment, that's entertainment.........i feel a song comin on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 9,458 Posted August 11, 2021 Generally speaking I think the 4 riders, 4 laps is pretty good as it is. If you could lessen the time spent between heats and like the GP's grade every 4 or so it should be absolutely perfect for TV. To appeal though the danger aspect needs to be emphasised and the opposing riders not act like mates in front of the cameras even if they are really. Surfaces need to be investigated to prevent TV rain offs while the open mikes and so on would all increase TV appeal and that is the only hope of attracting any real money into the sport in my opinion. The disparity between riders is then heightened by the best riders being able to afford the best kit so it would be good to see some form of handicap racing tried. Then either ensure that as much as possible standard equipment is used or introduce a claiming rule where any race winning bike can be bought by a competitor for a few quid above the price of a new standard bike. The big thing for me is that currently a really dangerous and exciting sport is marketed as family friendly, it might be that but don't tell everybody up front. Stop punishing riders for getting too pumped up and reacting badly when they are convinced another rider tried to kill them. Let the fans see the passion and become involved emotionally (and while you're at it ban anybody apart from another rider who hits a rider from the pits for life). At least try marketing Speedway as the most extreme sport, tell everybody about the horrific injuries and just how battered the riders are half the time and how they have all broken bones in the sport. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,637 Posted August 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Vince said: Generally speaking I think the 4 riders, 4 laps is pretty good as it is. If you could lessen the time spent between heats and like the GP's grade every 4 or so it should be absolutely perfect for TV. To appeal though the danger aspect needs to be emphasised and the opposing riders not act like mates in front of the cameras even if they are really. Surfaces need to be investigated to prevent TV rain offs while the open mikes and so on would all increase TV appeal and that is the only hope of attracting any real money into the sport in my opinion. The disparity between riders is then heightened by the best riders being able to afford the best kit so it would be good to see some form of handicap racing tried. Then either ensure that as much as possible standard equipment is used or introduce a claiming rule where any race winning bike can be bought by a competitor for a few quid above the price of a new standard bike. The big thing for me is that currently a really dangerous and exciting sport is marketed as family friendly, it might be that but don't tell everybody up front. Stop punishing riders for getting too pumped up and reacting badly when they are convinced another rider tried to kill them. Let the fans see the passion and become involved emotionally (and while you're at it ban anybody apart from another rider who hits a rider from the pits for life). At least try marketing Speedway as the most extreme sport, tell everybody about the horrific injuries and just how battered the riders are half the time and how they have all broken bones in the sport. Couldn't have put it better myself! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) I think speedway inherently needs to maintain the superficial simplicity of 4 riders over 4 laps, even if we know it's more complicated in practice. The basic rules of cricket are easy enough to understand and have been marketed that way for The Hundred, even though it can almost take a lifetime to understand the complexities. The basic problem with modern speedway is there's too little action, which translates into not enough races and too much hanging around between them. There should be absolutely no reason why you couldn't run a heat every 4 minutes under normal circumstances, so you could get 15 heats into an hour, and 20 heats into an hour-and-a-half (certainly an hour-and-three-quarters) including an interval and time for track grading. So how do you run those 20 races? I do agree that a 20-heat match wouldn't add much, particularly if it happened to be one-sided, but you could split things up into 14 or 15-heat match and then have 5 or 6 of novelty heats. That could be a handicap competition, an 8 or even 14 rider mass start 'points race' type of thing, a 'devil takes the hindmost' or even just a straightforward mini individual event that counts towards some sort of national competition. You'd less alienate the hardcore, but might actually attract a new audience if there was a bit of variety and not the same-old, same-old stuff. Some things may work and some might not, but if people aren't standing around bored, then they might notice less the cold weather and crappy stadium they're standing in, or the poor value for money. I don't really buy into the argument that it wouldn't work because the riders wouldn't take the novelty stuff seriously or want to get away after the match. Professional sport can't be run for the convenience of the competitors and you need to be structuring the contracts and payments around the concept of a complete meeting, including post-meeting obligations. F1 doesn't allow Lewis Hamilton to disappear off to his private jet as soon as he gets back to the pits after taking the chequered flag, so why should speedway? Edited August 11, 2021 by Humphrey Appleby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk127 1,359 Posted August 11, 2021 Currently watching the cricket 100 on BBC 2 and not being a cricket fan, it is entertaining it is different and is nowhere near as boring as I remember cricket. Speedway needs to try something different. What speedway offers is old hat and suits the diehards but to attract a new audience, forget the current format. Speedway can be fast and furious but league racing does not cut with today’s potential audience and if you watch the way this form of cricket is presented, speedway could do the same with the same level of analysis when it comes to bikes and riders and use various formats for a race meeting with teams of seven riders and it could be so different. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted August 11, 2021 Maybe more individuals could get involved running one off meetings? Why is it that only the BSPL should have the authority to run "UK Speedway"...? There are plenty of weeks when stadiums lie idle so couldn't "someone else" rent them and put on an event during some of those weeks? Similar to what the IOW are doing under another organisation? Landlords get more rent, riders get to earn more money, and Speedway (Shalesport?) fans get to see racing under a variety of guises.. As has been said, track cycling have many a combination of races that Speedway (Shalesport) could use... And a few handicap races never go amiss when properly planned.... I have watched Speedway in the United States and it is truly an 'event' where the town it takes place in is acutely aware of when it takes place (due to "proper local promotional work") and many of that town turn up to watch a mixture of ages compete from 'kids' to 'seniors', a mixture of scratch and handicap racing, and a mixture of types of bikes/sidecars being used.. All presented by someone on the centre green and in the stand, who are very comfortable at presenting and keeping the crowds interest during the gaps between races... Gaps that are deliberately kept to a minimum to ensure the momentum of the event remains high. One race finishes, then a lap of honour, and before the lap of honour ends the next bikes are out of the pits.. Team Speedway here in the UK has been around since around 1930 with barely a radical change (except handicap racing for a few years) in those ensuing 91 years... It's tired, it's contrived, it's not got any real meaning, nor has it any kudos, publicity or financial rewards for any of the clubs winning any of the competitions... So why keep carrying on flogging a dying horse? Even if "something different" doesn't work, it will only match what we have now as that doesn't work either.. What's that oft used definition of insanity? Doing exactly the same thing over and over and over again, and each time you do it, expecting a completely different result...? Maybe it needs putting on a very large car park banner at the next AGM venue, so all those attending can see it as they drive in... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cowboy cookie returns? 747 Posted August 11, 2021 4 hours ago, PirateShip said: Think we need Eric Boocock to go promoting out in them oil fields again. You prove my point OveFundinFan, money needed to keep speedway seems mahoosive to us mere mortals but to these mega blue chip companies/individuals mainly from the oil industry it's a very miniscule typo on a spreadsheet. I honestly don't get it why speedway can't tap into it. Speedway could tap into it if it was run in a professional manner. Look at Poland those type of companies falling over themselves to be involved, multiple TV companies bidding for the TV rights. To stand any chance of getting those blue chip companies involved one of two things need to happen. Firstly the sport reinvents itself and becomes something that these companies want to be involved with that will take time. Secondly the sport draws up proposals to do something completely different and sells that vision to said companies although they would then be bound by a contract to deliver. You have to remember uk speedway had 10 plus years of lucrative TV contacts with sky and did absolutely nothing to reinvent it's self. If your were the board of a big blue chip company would you want your brand associated with uk speedway in its current guise? I wouldn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted August 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, mikebv said: Why is it that only the BSPL should have the authority to run "UK Speedway"...? They don't. Anyone can run a speedway meeting or even set up their own governance body. However, there's ultimately little or nothing to be gained from splintering governance and regulation of the sport, particularly in motorsport where there are more complex technical and safety standards. 'Alternative' sanctioning bodies often leech off the standards and utilise the trained officials of established bodies whilst claiming they're doing things cheaper and better, but it's rarely a sustainable far less improved model. I agree that pressure sometimes needs to be exerted on a sanctioning body to implement needed reforms, but in the long run no-one really wins when everyone is just doing their own thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,023 Posted August 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said: So how do you run those 20 races? I do agree that a 20-heat match wouldn't add much, particularly if it happened to be one-sided, but you could split things up into 14 or 15-heat match and then have 5 or 6 of novelty heats. That could be a handicap competition, an 8 or even 14 rider mass start 'points race' type of thing, a 'devil takes the hindmost' or even just a straightforward mini individual event that counts towards some sort of national competition. You'd less alienate the hardcore, but might actually attract a new audience if there was a bit of variety and not the same-old, same-old stuff. How about instead of awarding league points at the end of the night, you make EVERY race count towards the league, much in the same way they did with the GP's before they ruined it. So if you get a 5-1 you get 5 league points and the opposition get 1, maybe 10 bonus points for winning on the night or something like that... just thinking as I type 12 hours ago, mikebv said: All presented by someone on the centre green and in the stand, who are very comfortable at presenting and keeping the crowds interest during the gaps between races... Been to Brumb a couple of times this season and have been quite impressed with Ryan Guest, good to see some young blood coming up... not quite up to Porky standards yet though 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lbw 869 Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) We need a 'guest' in for Porky! Edited August 12, 2021 by PirateShip Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted August 12, 2021 The changing of heats/laps etc is a typical BSPA change... changing something that doesn't need thinking. A completely new governing body full of young, enthusiastic people with visions of making the sport value for money is what is needed to replace that berk Godfrey and his following. Where you find these people I do not know. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) I saw someone talking about the Hundred on tv the other day and they said it was brilliant having the teams known by their nicknames - yet Speedway has been doing this for nearly a century. Speedway is a team sport. It needs to come across as a team sport and not just four blokes riding bikes round a track To many people that is all it is. There's not a lot wrong with the actual product, it just needs consistent teams (something that has been wrecked by Doubling up and low points limits) and to be presented in a way that makes you feel that you are watching a team sport. Instead, we just get "...and the winner in heat one, in red, in a time of blah blah blah..." while everyone fills in a programme. I know people don't all agree with me, but have a big scoreboard above the pits with the score on constant display. And show replays on it. It can't be that hard. Swindon used to show regular replays on televisions around the stadium a few years back. Then they had the great idea of stopping it. Make it feel like you are watching a sport between two teams. And encourage riders to have a bit of a barny, rather than banning them if they do. On a side note, I was speaking to a work colleague on Monday and mentioned that I'd watched the Speedway GP over the weekend. "I didn't think they had speedway any more" was his response. So clearly some marketing is needed too! Every cost cutting move they make takes more people off the gate. It has been doing so for years. Yet they keep doing it. We now have a top league of 6 teams with the same riders as in the lower tier. Mental. Edited August 12, 2021 by Grachan 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted August 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, Grachan said: I saw someone talking about the Hundred on tv the other day and they said it was brilliant having the teams known by their nicknames - yet Speedway has been doing this for nearly a century. Speedway is a team sport. It needs to come across as a team sport and not just four blokes riding bikes round a track To many people that is all it is. There's not a lot wrong with the actual product, it just needs consistent teams (something that has been wrecked by Doubling up and low points limits) and to be presented in a way that makes you feel that you are watching a team sport. Instead, we just get "...and the winner in heat one, in red, in a time of blah blah blah..." while everyone fills in a programme. I know people don't all agree with me, but have a big scoreboard above the pits with the score on constant display. And show replays on it. It can't be that hard. Swindon used to show regular replays on televisions around the stadium a few years back. Then they had the great idea of stopping it. Make it feel like you are watching a sport between two teams. And encourage riders to have a bit of a barny, rather than banning them if they do. On a side note, I was speaking to a work colleague on Monday and mentioned that I'd watched the Speedway GP over the weekend. "I didn't think they had speedway any more" was his response. So clearly some marketing is needed too! Every cost cutting move they make takes more people off the gate. It has been doing so for years. Yet they keep doing it. We now have a top league of 6 teams with the same riders as in the lower tier. Mental. A true race to the bottom isnt it Amazing such an operating and business model could ever be dreamt up, never mind actually implemented.. And then get implemented again... And again.. And again.. Ad infinitum... As you say.. Mental... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
