Trees 2,814 Posted June 18, 2022 9 hours ago, mikebv said: And you can add that this country is still the ONLY country who want to have EVERY day/night of the week available to them... Simply. When Poland started to take over the UK's place at the head of the table, then this country, (whilst it still had strength and influence), should have just "gone it alone" and set up without needing to rely on so many overseas riders.. Instead. It bent over, changed race nights to accommodate even more overseas riders, and then felt hard done to when the same riders all said "I'm off", and dropped the UK, leaving the promoters with their only route of either bringing over even more overseas riders, but of a much reduced standard from those who had said "goodbye", and letting pretty much every rider ride for two teams. (Which then renders the leagues somewhat farcical).. Too many promoters want to compete at a level that either their purse strings dont allow, or not having enough riders available at the desired level they want to run at, doesnt allow.. When all that gets aligned, (hope springs eternal), and tracks only open for business on nights their customers want, rather than nights their employees want, then maybe recovery and growth can start to be achieved.. We do not, we use Mondays and Thursdays! Yes our promoters have tried to accommodate other leagues, GP promoters, stock car promoters, dog racing promoters etc because actually everything can work with a bit of give and take, until Poland pi@@ed on the matches in all ways, looking forward to them getting burnt, may be too late for British Speedway though .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 18, 2022 9 hours ago, szkocjasid said: If every top rider at the start of 2021 got together & agreed not to sign for the Polish Extraliga, the PZM would either have had to change the rules or run with a Div 1 stronger than the top tier. The riders could all have agreed if PZM don't back down, we'll sign out contracts on the last possible day - so they didn't risk losing out in the high wages! But why would the PZM ever change their stance now? Riders have said they don't agree with it, but still willingly sign. Guessing the guys simply don't want the hassle, the majority just aren't bothered about racing here anyway. Look at all the young aussies going straight to Poland, sad for us but we do need to push our youngsters on somehow. At last have read what Mark Lemon has said in the Star, that the Championship promoters need to embrace the rising star scheme again, to weaken Championship teams so there isn't the need for so much doubling up of riders but the encouragement/improvement of youngsters. He thinks at some point in the very near future that GB will be bereft of riders because we haven't trained them up basically. He thinks all promoters need to look to the future instead of today ..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted June 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Trees said: We do not, we use Mondays and Thursdays! Yes our promoters have tried to accommodate other leagues, GP promoters, stock car promoters, dog racing promoters etc because actually everything can work with a bit of give and take, until Poland pi@@ed on the matches in all ways, looking forward to them getting burnt, may be too late for British Speedway though .... No it doesn't ... The sport runs Monday to Sunday using many of the same riders.. No other country wants to have access to riders EVERY single day of the week other than the UK.... Hence, so many meetings end up being ridiculous made up "Guestfests" which does it absolutely no favours whatsoever... And does nothing but destroy its credibility... Enjoy.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 18, 2022 Just now, mikebv said: No it doesn't ... The sport runs Monday to Sunday using many of the same riders.. No other country wants to have access to riders EVERY single day of the week other than the UK.... Hence, so many meetings end up being ridiculous made up "Guestfests" which does it absolutely no favours whatsoever... And does nothing but destroy its credibility... Enjoy.... Riders who want to/are good enough to race in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GPs only race Mondays and Thursdays in the UK. Doesn't matter about the others really does it...... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Trees said: Riders who want to/are good enough to race in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GPs only race Mondays and Thursdays in the UK. Doesn't matter about the others really does it...... ???? If you want to run a national sporting competition with 3 leagues and expect fans to emotionally buy into it, (and if they dont you are 100% wasting your time, energy, and money).. Of course it does.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, mikebv said: ???? If you want to run a national sporting competition with 3 leagues and expect fans to emotionally buy into it, (and if they dont you are 100% wasting your time, energy, and money).. Of course it does.. The system could work well if the Poles would allow it to ...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bald Bloke 3,287 Posted June 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Trees said: The system could work well if the Poles would allow it to ...... They pay so much, what they say goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 18, 2022 Just now, Bald Bloke said: They pay so much, what they say goes. Yep that's it ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Trees said: The system could work well if the Poles would allow it to ...... The system would work well if the Poles had no influence on it... The fact they do is 100% down to the operating model that UK promoters have chosen to follow... In the world of bike racing for example, the BSB and WSB exist and both do well, with the reason being the BSB "know their place" and use a level of rider below the level of WSB... They ensure that their operating model and business model isn't influenced by another, (bigger) player in their field of operation... They know that the top level riders in their version of the sport will organically move on to WSB/MotoGP, so have a strong development plan through their running of lower level championships alongside their main one... Ensuring a solid constant stream of participants, whilst also putting out a good value for money offering every other weekend to their fans... The BSP should do the same, and should actually have done it around 10 years ago when Poland started to influence their business far too much.... The fact they didn't, and still don't, isn't the fault of the Poles... Edited June 19, 2022 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,737 Posted June 19, 2022 Might need fine tuning but how about this as a suggestion as an alternative to the current Polish rules. Rather than 1 and 2 extra leagues that the Polish rules state how about a week is classified as starting on Monday and finishing on Sunday and each rider who rides Extraleague is allowed 1 other night league racing that week and E Winner/Div 2 - 2 extra league nights racing. This would help where the teams use a squad system and currently a rider might be signed but not used. It would need a lot of co-operation between, Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GB but might work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, mikebv said: The system would work well if the Poles had no influence on it... The fact they do is 100% down to the operating model that UK promoters have chosen to follow... In the world of bike racing for example, the BSB and WSB exist and both do well, with the reason being the BSB "know their place" and use a level of rider below the level of WSB... They ensure that their operating model and business model isn't influenced by another, (bigger) player in their field of operation... They know that the top level riders in their version of the sport will organically move on to WSB/MotoGP, so have a strong development plan through their running of lower level championships alongside their main one... Ensuring a solid constant stream of participants, whilst also putting out a good value for money offering every other weekend to their fans... The BSP should do the same, and should actually have done it around 10 years ago when Poland started to influence their business far too much.... The fact they didn't, and still don't, isn't the fault of the Poles... On the other hand Poland could and should allow self employed riders to do what they want as they did for years successfully instead of restricting their earning potential! Many riders do not even want to race in all leagues so it won't affect many of them anyway! It sounds that things may change next year so we will see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706 Posted June 19, 2022 45 minutes ago, Trees said: On the other hand Poland could and should allow self employed riders to do what they want as they did for years successfully instead of restricting their earning potential! Many riders do not even want to race in all leagues so it won't affect many of them anyway! It sounds that things may change next year so we will see. Restricting their earning potential They give the top boys the chance to earn the same per point as they would per meeting in the UK All they are saying is that to qualify to be part of this you have to be fresh and available pretty much on demand (including for practice sessions) Rider choice , not unreasonable employer demands 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcatdiary 3,165 Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, racers and royals said: Might need fine tuning but how about this as a suggestion as an alternative to the current Polish rules. Rather than 1 and 2 extra leagues that the Polish rules state how about a week is classified as starting on Monday and finishing on Sunday and each rider who rides Extraleague is allowed 1 other night league racing that week and E Winner/Div 2 - 2 extra league nights racing. This would help where the teams use a squad system and currently a rider might be signed but not used. It would need a lot of co-operation between, Poland, Sweden, Denmark and GB but might work. It needs a lot of co-operation between promoters in the BSPL but it doesn’t generally happen does it which is why we still have big problems. We need the three leagues to work together for the good of U.K. speedway but the facts shows that doesn’t happen, they cannot even have the same rules on how they operate or run competitions, until they start to work together Poland will be allowed to dictate things. For British riders to benefit from ACU allocations, ride for the GB team, ride in the British Championships, SON, SEC etc they should be required to ride in the U.K. and hold British Licences. I have absolutely no problem with British riders riding in Poland, Sweden or Elsewhere but they do need to ride in the U.K. if they want the benefits above. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,666 Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, mikebv said: The system would work well if the Poles had no influence on it... The fact they do is 100% down to the operating model that UK promoters have chosen to follow... In the world of bike racing for example, the BSB and WSB exist and both do well, with the reason being the BSB "know their place" and use a level of rider below the level of WSB... They ensure that their operating model and business model isn't influenced by another, (bigger) player in their field of operation... They know that the top level riders in their version of the sport will organically move on to WSB/MotoGP, so have a strong development plan through their running of lower level championships alongside their main one... Ensuring a solid constant stream of participants, whilst also putting out a good value for money offering every other weekend to their fans... The BSP should do the same, and should actually have done it around 10 years ago when Poland started to influence their business far too much.... The fact they didn't, and still don't, isn't the fault of the Poles... To be fair, the Exstraliga barely interfere at all. We only have Doyle & Holder from that league. We're now fighting with eWinner 1 Liga which is still a better standard than the Premiership. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted June 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: To be fair, the Exstraliga barely interfere at all. We only have Doyle & Holder from that league. We're now fighting with eWinner 1 Liga which is still a better standard than the Premiership. But they only fight with any league because they want to cover all seven days of the week using the same riders.. Sweden and Denmark have the same challenges re Poland, but dont plan in seven days of racing as they couldnt make it work either as they too want to use the same riders.. If you want to run Friday, Saturday and Sunday (absolutely the traditional best days for the entertainment sector), then not using Polish contracted riders would seem the logical thing to do if you want to run regularly with credibility, and also be in charge of your own business and destiny as not getting influenced by external factors.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
