Tyre Investigation

[wtf 621]

12 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Not sure if it was the case but it did look like they were running higher tyre pressures last night

Generally, been running higher pressures on the Anlas since it came in. Most are running between 7-10psi. The new tyres had a different carcass construction. Alot of people think the problem is the compound, it isn't, it's the construction of the carcass that is making the tyre lamination separate and fail. There were a few problems on Monday, but generally the tyres faired much better.

8 hours ago, False dawn said:

I'm no expert, but it seems clear that riders wish to run their rear tyres at as low a pressure as possible. 6 psi has been mentioned and this, to me, seems an extremely low value. If the rules don't prescribe a minimum pressue and a low pressure gives you more grip (which makes intuative sense) who's to say some riders aren't sneaking down to even lower pressures? For sure, the slow mos reveal significant distortion of tyres including the sidewalls. Spin a tyre at high speed, whilst cornering with little air in it and you would appear to be asking for trouble. Do that on shale that is sharp edged in nature (not to mention nuts and bolts from previous stock car meetings - not relevant to Peterborough I know, but is with some other tracks) and you might just get the odd catastrophic failure.
We did have a "one edge per meeting" rule a few years ago, did we not? That went out of the window (with the current tyres) when a tyre run on the same edge for all of one meeting was found to be unusable when turned. Now we're talking about two tyres per meeting (albeit only at one track thus far). That's a four fold increase in usage; four edges per meeting. And that's from a tyre that's reported to be more expensive than previous makes.
I'm happy for anyone to refute any of this.

Happy to refute most of what you say. There isn't a minimum tyre pressure that riders have to run, 6psi and lower was common on the old Mitas tyre, shale is no longer sharp edged, were racing mostly on mud these days. For as long as I can remember it's been 1 tyre (2 edges) per meeting. The catastrophic failures are not down to a tyre being punctured by a foreign object due to low pressures. the Tyres are falling apart from the inside out

[wtf 621]

3 minutes ago, iainb said:

I saw at least 2, wearing Anlas coats at least,  unless they brought some free "merch" over with them 

Probably a few T shirts and caps too  There was one Anlas "engineer" checking temps after each race. Wouldn't surprise me if they had another Bod for moral support or a free Jolly to the UK.

Most of what comes out on the TV is just political spin because everyone being interviewed is trying to gloss over a poor decision. The briefing before the meeting was a bit like the blind leading the blind.  One new tyre, no, one new and one of the old tyres, no, 2 new tyres but you can only use the second if the first fails, no, have 2 and use 2. It was a bit of a farce 

[GeneralMelchett 482]

11 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

An overheated portacabin due to a hot summer, in Scunthorpe !!!!! 

Whoever thought that gem up could be the new Barry Cryer

Whilst maybe amusing (i did chuckle myself at it) given the fact temperatures reached 40c in Sheffield this summer not impossible!

[IronScorpion 1,407]

14 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

An overheated portacabin due to a hot summer, in Scunthorpe !!!!! 

Whoever thought that gem up could be the new Barry Cryer

 

2 hours ago, GeneralMelchett said:

Whilst maybe amusing (i did chuckle myself at it) given the fact temperatures reached 40c in Sheffield this summer not impossible!

...... and the hottest day EVER recorded in Britain this summer is only around 45 miles south of Scunthorpe.

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,749]

Scott nicholls in the star this week saying because of the wheel spin you can’t expect a tyre (any tyre) to do 5 races especially round Peterborough, now where have seen this said before ? But does he go on to talk about a solution to the problem ? 

[mikebv 10,285]

5 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Scott nicholls in the star this week saying because of the wheel spin you can’t expect a tyre (any tyre) to do 5 races especially round Peterborough, now where have seen this said before ? But does he go on to talk about a solution to the problem ? 

I seem to remember at Peterborough they stopped the 6 lap Ht15's that used to take place when Sky covered it..

Specifically for the issue that the tyres were wearing too much at that track.. 

Ten years at least or so ago that we had 6 lap Ht15's on TV matches wasnt it?

So not a "new issue" I would suggest...

[Lefty 1,268]

At P'boro' my trainers wear out walking from the car park to the grandstand.  I will have to check what make they are? I think they might be Anidas. 

[iainb 5,018]

I could clearly smell burning rubber last night at Peterborough and then in the very next race Fricke limped over the line with a puncture. It looked like Nicholls may also have suffered one earlier in the evening the way he left his bike at the pit gate. It seems when the conditions are right (wrong!) at Peterborough they seem to have more problems than most, this must be rectified before next season

[Bald Bloke 3,287]

On 9/7/2022 at 9:33 AM, wtf said:

Generally, been running higher pressures on the Anlas since it came in. Most are running between 7-10psi. The new tyres had a different carcass construction. Alot of people think the problem is the compound, it isn't, it's the construction of the carcass that is making the tyre lamination separate and fail. There were a few problems on Monday, but generally the tyres faired much better.

Happy to refute most of what you say. There isn't a minimum tyre pressure that riders have to run, 6psi and lower was common on the old Mitas tyre, shale is no longer sharp edged, were racing mostly on mud these days. For as long as I can remember it's been 1 tyre (2 edges) per meeting. The catastrophic failures are not down to a tyre being punctured by a foreign object due to low pressures. the Tyres are falling apart from the inside out

I said on the Panthers thread back a month or so when we had tyregate. The carcass construction seems to be the problem. Yes the Showground is hard on tyres, but it is possible in 2022 to make a tyre that don't fall to bits. If the carcass was strong enough the tyre wouldn't rip. The tread is just the soft compound, and could be replaced by a harder compound rubber, which would help with wear. But the problem lies in the construction of the carcass. Needs to be reinforced with steel banding to hold it together. I've seen drift car tyres last well over an hour drifting on concrete. If you cut through a speedway tyre, i bet it don't look like this. Yes it will be a bit heavier, but it will be safer. Thats my opinion on the issue.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Bald Bloke

[Bagpuss 10,781]

Presumably they have issues at P'boro because it's essentially a big circle and they are constantly on the edge of the tyre?

[Bald Bloke 3,287]

17 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Presumably they have issues at P'boro because it's essentially a big circle and they are constantly on the edge of the tyre?

Thats about it. The tyre wear is due to this, the rubber compound is very soft and thats what causes the tyre/tread to wear more than other tracks, But the carcass of the tyre isn't up to it either. It's not reinforced enough, which is causing the tyre to fall to bits imho

[FromBendThree 145]

Speedway has  one compound for every track. Why not let riders chooSe from soft, intermediate or hard? Also have a set of full wets. Then you can race when it rains

[Bald Bloke 3,287]

3 minutes ago, FromBendThree said:

Speedway has  one compound for every track. Why not let riders chooSe from soft, intermediate or hard? Also have a set of full wets. Then you can race when it rains

That would help with tyre wear. But what is causing the tyres to fall to bits is a carcass issue.

[wtf 621]

20 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

I said on the Panthers thread back a month or so when we had tyregate. The carcass construction seems to be the problem. Yes the Showground is hard on tyres, but it is possible in 2022 to make a tyre that don't fall to bits. If the carcass was strong enough the tyre wouldn't rip. The tread is just the soft compound, and could be replaced by a harder compound rubber, which would help with wear. But the problem lies in the construction of the carcass. Needs to be reinforced with steel banding to hold it together. I've seen drift car tyres last well over an hour drifting on concrete. If you cut through a speedway tyre, i bet it don't look like this. Yes it will be a bit heavier, but it will be safer. Thats my opinion on the issue.

The carcass construction looks very similar to your drawing, the steel beads are there along with the other layers. The compound of the rubber is not really an issue like you say it's the construction.

20 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

Thats about it. The tyre wear is due to this, the rubber compound is very soft and thats what causes the tyre/tread to wear more than other tracks, But the carcass of the tyre isn't up to it either. It's not reinforced enough, which is causing the tyre to fall to bits imho

Lets be clear, the Anlas tyres are NOT wearing out. Tyre wear is NOT the issue. They are falling apart long before they wear out. If anything their wear rate is much better than the Mitas that preceeded it.

20 hours ago, FromBendThree said:

Speedway has  one compound for every track. Why not let riders choose from soft, intermediate or hard? Also have a set of full wets. Then you can race when it rains

Unfortunately that's unlikely. Not racing in the rain is very very rarely about grip levels, it's 90% about being able to see where you are going

20 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

That would help with tyre wear. But what is causing the tyres to fall to bits is a carcass issue.

I believe it's poor quality construction and poor quality materials. But 100% what you have said is the issue 

[Fromafar 10,367]

Bottom line is tyre is not fit for purpose .IMO. Riders throw away money on everything else maybe they should be complaining about sub standard tyres.It’s hard to believe it’s just at Peterborough that they have problems,I seem to recall at Berwick last season they also had “ tyre issues”.