szkocjasid 3,043 Posted May 8, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, gmuncie said: Why wait till after the 28 days then moan? The situation hasn’t changed from the second Luke got injured till now. A short term injury replacement could have been signed (and I seem to remember Nicholls being announced as such before this was reversed) Why not spot an error in the rules pre-season & bring it up at the AGM? When a team points out a rule they don't agree with, only now when it doesn't suit them, just looks like sour grapes! It's the same as Neil Middleditch complaining in the Speedway Star about a heat 15 exclusion for Steve Worrall, I think he made comments about all fours being better for the fans etc. If that's true why not bring it up pre-season rather than when Poole have a rider excluded? Edited May 8, 2023 by szkocjasid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,043 Posted May 8, 2023 On 5/7/2023 at 11:33 AM, Panthers99 said: http://www.wolverhampton-speedway.com/_mobile/news.php?extend.3672 Oooerrrrr. I think they've got the ruling right. I don't mind guests, but do feel it should be harder to strengthen up & any rule like this which encourages a replacement (temporary or otherwise) has to be commended Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) On 5/8/2023 at 4:02 PM, szkocjasid said: I think they've got the ruling right. I don't mind guests, but do feel it should be harder to strengthen up & any rule like this which encourages a replacement (temporary or otherwise) has to be commended Even when it’s a rider who has ridden in your previous 77 meetings without missing one!!!! Hmmmm, I could understand it if it’s a rider you’ve just signed but it’s a little harsh, it’s all about timing timing, if he had completed one bend of one heat for us we would be okay! Is it our fault he was injured elsewhere? Edited May 9, 2023 by Call me wolfie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisa-colette 6,035 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/8/2023 at 3:56 PM, szkocjasid said: Why not spot an error in the rules pre-season & bring it up at the AGM? When a team points out a rule they don't agree with, only now when it doesn't suit them, just looks like sour grapes! It's the same as Neil Middleditch complaining in the Speedway Star about a heat 15 exclusion for Steve Worrall, I think he made comments about all fours being better for the fans etc. If that's true why not bring it up pre-season rather than when Poole have a rider excluded? I didn't think TM's went to the AGM. So if he wanted a rule changed he would have to bring it up with Dan or Matt Ford first? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,043 Posted May 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, lisa-colette said: I didn't think TM's went to the AGM. So if he wanted a rule changed he would have to bring it up with Dan or Matt Ford first? My point was the timing of Middleditch's comments, there hasn't been a "first bend bunching" rule for as long as I can remember (if ever) but he brings it up after Poole lose a last heat decider. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,043 Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/8/2023 at 4:02 PM, szkocjasid said: I think they've got the ruling right. I don't mind guests, but do feel it should be harder to strengthen up & any rule like this which encourages a replacement (temporary or otherwise) has to be commended 30 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: Even when it’s a rider who has ridden in your previous 77 meetings without missing one!!!! Hmmmm, I could understand it if it’s a rider you’ve just signed but it’s a little harsh, it’s all about timing timing, if he had completed one bend of one heat for us we would be okay! Is it our fault he was injured elsewhere? The rules aren't great, i'm sure clubs don't want to encourage a rider to turn up & slide off carefully to get a facility. Where's the cut-off going to be for riders injured pre-season? Becker - ridden a full season without missing a match vs Kennedy - in Scunthorpe's 2022 side till injury vs Wright & signed as a new rider for Birmingham. I can imagine there would be an outcry if there was different facilities given for 3 riders who hadn't ridden yet this year. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisa-colette 6,035 Posted May 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: My point was the timing of Middleditch's comments, there hasn't been a "first bend bunching" rule for as long as I can remember (if ever) but he brings it up after Poole lose a last heat decider. You said he should bring it up pre season but even if he did, he's not at the AGM so I fail to see what difference it makes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) On 5/8/2023 at 3:56 PM, szkocjasid said: Why not spot an error in the rules pre-season & bring it up at the AGM? When a team points out a rule they don't agree with, only now when it doesn't suit them, just looks like sour grapes! Why not just run the sport properly? A rider missing? Then (shock, horror), you sign someone else... Or run with (a fit for purpose), rider replacement facility, if you say "no one is available".. Speedway in the UK seems to like fo make up a myriad of supplementary nonsense rules and regs for every eventuality... And all needed because the initial rule or reg isnt crystal clear... Let's be honest, in this situation, they are hardly looking for a World Beater level rider are they? In fact, his level probably has the largest number of, (currently unattached in the UK), possible replacements globally... So bring one of them many possible replacements in... Or run with RR... So much self inflicted nonsense is allowed to go on, which has resulted in tens of thousands of fans, who still follow the sport, stop going... Maybe Phil Morris can help them to help themselves.. Edited May 10, 2023 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tocha 308 Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) I am wondering what happens next. The BSPL ruling implies that Becker is no longer a Wolves rider but, as a concession, they have allowed them a guest facility at 75% of his CMA. Therefore, when he recovers from injury and ready to ride, Wolves will have to re-declare and sign him as a new rider. He retains his original average so, if he cannot be fitted in with the points limit, they will have to make further team changes in order that he may be accommodated. Edited May 10, 2023 by tocha unnecessary repetition Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoundTheBoards 271 Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, tocha said: I am wondering what happens next. The BSPL ruling implies that Becker is no longer a Wolves rider but, as a concession, they have allowed them a guest facility at 75% of his CMA. Therefore, when he recovers from injury and ready to ride, Wolves will have to re-declare and sign him as a new rider. He retains his original average so, if he cannot be fitted in with the points limit, they will have to make further team changes in order that he may be accommodated. You've got it all confused. The ruling doesn't say "Becker is no longer a Wolves rider". He still is a Wolves ride, still in their 1-7. All that has changed is that Wolves are no longer allowed a facility for him. (for 28 days they had a facility that allowed them to use R/R or a guest up to Becker's average). They now have no facility for any meeting Becker misses, and must follow the "no facility" rule. Becker is still in the 1-7, and can ride any time he's able. Edited May 10, 2023 by RoundTheBoards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, RoundTheBoards said: You've got it all confused. The ruling doesn't say "Becker is no longer a Wolves rider". He still is a Wolves ride, still in their 1-7. All that has changed is that Wolves are no longer allowed a facility for him. (for 28 days they had a facility that allowed them to use R/R or a guest up to Becker's average). They now have no facility for any meeting Becker misses, and must follow the "no facility" rule. Becker is still in the 1-7, and can ride any ride he's able. Is he right or left handed though? And does he like Mars Bars.? That may make a difference... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tocha 308 Posted May 10, 2023 12 hours ago, RoundTheBoards said: You've got it all confused. The ruling doesn't say "Becker is no longer a Wolves rider". He still is a Wolves ride, still in their 1-7. All that has changed is that Wolves are no longer allowed a facility for him. (for 28 days they had a facility that allowed them to use R/R or a guest up to Becker's average). They now have no facility for any meeting Becker misses, and must follow the "no facility" rule. Becker is still in the 1-7, and can ride any time he's able. I don't know what the ruling is. Vatcher appears to have introduced one which doesn't appear to be in the 2023 SCB regs. Perhaps he, and others in the BSPL, were miffed by the fact Wolves included Scott as a temporary replacement for Luke then went back to their original declaration after Nicholls was injured in Poland just before Wolves' home fixture v Belle Vue on10th April. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted May 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, tocha said: I don't know what the ruling is. Vatcher appears to have introduced one which doesn't appear to be in the 2023 SCB regs. Perhaps he, and others in the BSPL, were miffed by the fact Wolves included Scott as a temporary replacement for Luke then went back to their original declaration after Nicholls was injured in Poland just before Wolves' home fixture v Belle Vue on10th April. The ruling is SR10.5.p which states “ [A team may utilise a facility to cover the absence of a rider(s) who -] has been approved in a teams declared 1-7 at the start of the season but due to extenuating circumstances is not available, a facility may be granted, up to a maximum of 28 days, at the SCB Co-Ordinators discretion.” There’s a detailed explanation at http://www.wolverhampton-speedway.com/news.php?extend.3672 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,430 Posted May 10, 2023 so if Phil doesn't agree with Neil's rule who trumps who? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoundTheBoards 271 Posted May 11, 2023 5 hours ago, tocha said: I don't know what the ruling is. Vatcher appears to have introduced one which doesn't appear to be in the 2023 SCB regs. Neil Vatcher hasn't "introduced a rule which doesn't appear to be in the 2023 regs". Like you say, you don't know the regulations. Neil Watson has quoted the relevant part of the SR below. Becker was named in the 1-7 for 2023 at the start of the season but hasn't turned a wheel. The SCB can give a facility for a MAXIMUM of 28 days, and they have given Wolverhampton the maximum benefit of that regulation. What does feel a bit unfair is that Peterborough have been given a longer facility for Pedersen. But Pedersen isn't the same case. He DID ride for Peterborough and got "injured" riding for them. In this case Peterborough get an automatic facility for 28 days which can be extended for a longer period. The fact that Pedersen only rode about 50 yards is what makes it feel unfair. On top of this Pedersen is now fit, so I would question on what grounds his automatic 28 day facility is being extended (presumably for withholding services). 4 hours ago, NeilWatson said: The ruling is SR10.5.p which states “ [A team may utilise a facility to cover the absence of a rider(s) who -] has been approved in a teams declared 1-7 at the start of the season but due to extenuating circumstances is not available, a facility may be granted, up to a maximum of 28 days, at the SCB Co-Ordinators discretion.” There’s a detailed explanation at http://www.wolverhampton-speedway.com/news.php?extend.3672 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
