Sheffield Tigers 2023

[Bald Bloke 3,294]

36 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

My point is that riders missing a season in the UK SHOULD be reassessed annually. 3 years is too long for some riders who can return on a paltry average having improved massively within those 3 years (Lidsey is a prime example of that). That was my point.

That is indeed a different point. We should not be encouraging riders to return ONLY for the play offs to help themselves and that team to glory.

now of course this will depend on your viewpoint if riders being allowed to ride here only for the play offs because of a proven injury or the long standing replacement for injury only from those teams out the play offs.

Neither of them is really the answer. 
I still say it depends on who asks if a replacement is allowed as to whether it’s granted, and I doubt that will change.

Hopefully Morris will add integrity and transparency to the league rules and running. 

The first point 100%. If the first happens, that should stop the 2nd happening  to some extent. But riders will come for the money, if allowed.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by Bald Bloke

[Clive Ward 181]

If a rider who is 5th in the world can come and ride in this country on an 8 average what would the assessed average of a rider who is 15 in the world?
Like a lot Lynn fans I’ve followed Robert since he was riding for Lynn in the national league but it still doesn’t make it right that he can come back and ride on an 8 average

 

[Roger Jacobs 554]

On 3/15/2023 at 5:40 AM, stevebrum said:

... We should not be encouraging riders to return ONLY for the play offs to help themselves and that team to glory. ...

You still make it sound as if this was done deliberately. It only happened because of injury.

Definitely agree with your point about Morris - he has a battle on his hands not just to remove ambiguity, but also to deal with the strongest personalities among the promoters.

[Bagpuss 10,819]

26 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

You still make it sound as if this was done deliberately. It only happened because of injury.

Definitely agree with your point about Morris - he has a battle on his hands not just to remove ambiguity, but also to deal with the strongest personalities among the promoters.

Spot on, that's the key point that seems to get missed. Whether he should have been reassessed is another argument, but he wasn't and fitted to replace an injured rider. Which is much more preferable to a guest (eurgh) or R/R. 

[B.V 72 1,054]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:35 PM, stevebrum said:

Completely agree.

Any rider that has a year out of British Speedway should be reassessed before the next new season.Some riders have made massive strides in their career since out of racing.

Lambert was a completely different rider in 23, it’s a mockery to bring a rider in on a false average.

Lidsey has had 2 seasons of progress in the toughest league in the world yet gets to keep his outdated British average. Bonkers, another false average.

Bellego has progressed in the world of speedway yet comes back on his last British average from years ago. Bonkers again and another false average.

Woffy coming in for a wolves in 2016 ruffled plenty of feathers because he was a world champion on his low real average and this was one that seemed to stir this whole hornets nest that we have now and the one that seemed to stick in the teeth of Aces fans mostly (but happy to use that now).

I think the common factor is that fans don’t like riders coming back and using outdated averages at a gain to other clubs (unless it’s the fans of the club that get the advantage I guess). It seemed that loophole was closed but reopened to suit any club or promoter asking. 
 

I think for transparency (not a word the BSPL seem to like) riders missing 12 months from the UK get an annual reassessment based on their Polish and Swedish averages. Surely any rider who rides in the GP should at least be a 9 surely? Minimum 8.

I don’t think any fan would begrudge riders being fairly assessed on their current ability, not an outdated one. 

You also need to look at other leagues before you comment on averages. Lidsey is going well in Poland. But if you look at the Swedish league averages for riders signed this year from a 7 team league you will find that there are 38 riders with a better average than Lidsey so not that great.and with Swedish tracks being a lot closer to our tracks its hard to say how well he will go here. I expect he will go well at home( big track like Poland) but who knows about away tracks.Also Bellego sits next to him on the average list so another one who goes better in Poland than Sweden.

[stevebrum 6,829]

5 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

You still make it sound as if this was done deliberately. It only happened because of injury.

Definitely agree with your point about Morris - he has a battle on his hands not just to remove ambiguity, but also to deal with the strongest personalities among the promoters.

It still stinks a little that the ok was granted for Belle Vue to use Lambert as an injury replacement but Wolves were denied using Woffy when they had their top 2 with season ending injuries (Lindgren and Thorssell) which were exactly the same scenario. 
Im not saying it was done deliberately but not done fairly for all teams using the so called same rules, regulations and interpretations of the rules. 

3 hours ago, B.V 72 said:

You also need to look at other leagues before you comment on averages. Lidsey is going well in Poland. But if you look at the Swedish league averages for riders signed this year from a 7 team league you will find that there are 38 riders with a better average than Lidsey so not that great.and with Swedish tracks being a lot closer to our tracks its hard to say how well he will go here. I expect he will go well at home( big track like Poland) but who knows about away tracks.Also Bellego sits next to him on the average list so another one who goes better in Poland than Sweden.

Any rider that is good enough to ride in the Swedish AND Polish top flight need to have a minimum 7 point average assessed imho.

I take your point that the averages don’t always tell the whole story however in my opinion riders that ride in top flight leagues will be used to coming up against and challenging a higher standard of rider than in the UK so will have it relatively easier over here.

There has to be some sort of bench mark for assessing standards of riders, for me it’s simple to say that if you are good enough to ride in both top flight leagues then a minimum assessed average should be deemed fair. I think a 6 would be to low so that’s why a 7 seems fair to me. 
plus if you are also a GP rider as well then nothing less than an 8 or 8.5 seems fair. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by stevebrum
Added detail.

[The SAINT 78]

6 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

Spot on, that's the key point that seems to get missed. Whether he should have been reassessed is another argument, but he wasn't and fitted to replace an injured rider. Which is much more preferable to a guest (eurgh) or R/R. 

in actuality he WAS a guest , only on a false average ! if his average had been re-assessed (to align with his world standing/form) ,he wouldn't have ridden and all the controversy would not have arisen.a loophole that should never arise again using this suggestion.    

[The Third Man 2,217]

9 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

Spot on, that's the key point that seems to get missed. Whether he should have been reassessed is another argument, but he wasn't and fitted to replace an injured rider. Which is much more preferable to a guest (eurgh) or R/R. 

He guested for three matches and then another guest was needed for what should have been his fourth match, but as that match wasn't important he got a mysterious injury

[Bagpuss 10,819]

4 hours ago, The SAINT said:

in actuality he WAS a guest , only on a false average ! if his average had been re-assessed (to align with his world standing/form) ,he wouldn't have ridden and all the controversy would not have arisen.a loophole that should never arise again using this suggestion.    

 

40 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

He guested for three matches and then another guest was needed for what should have been his fourth match, but as that match wasn't important he got a mysterious injury

Excuse my ignorance, but why as he a 'guest'? As far as I'm aware one of those has to be in a 1-7.

As for reassessment, he should really have been, no argument there. Hopefully something Mr Morris will sort out.

[szkocjasid 3,127]

10 hours ago, stevebrum said:

It still stinks a little that the ok was granted for Belle Vue to use Lambert as an injury replacement but Wolves were denied using Woffy when they had their top 2 with season ending injuries (Lindgren and Thorssell) which were exactly the same scenario. 
Im not saying it was done deliberately but not done fairly for all teams using the so called same rules, regulations and interpretations of the rules. 

Basically the (poorly written) rules were different last year than they were when Wolves were missing their top 2!

They've changed again for next year, so even if Ipswich were missing Doyle & Sayfutdinov for the play-offs they couldn't draft in Lambert!

[foreverblue 6,115]

18 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

Basically the (poorly written) rules were different last year than they were when Wolves were missing their top 2!

They've changed again for next year, so even if Ipswich were missing Doyle & Sayfutdinov for the play-offs they couldn't draft in Lambert!

That is good it cannot happen again and shows that it should not have been allowed to happen before, well done to Belle Vue on exploiting the loophole.

[eric i 621]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:29 AM, Bagpuss said:

Spot on, that's the key point that seems to get missed. Whether he should have been reassessed is another argument, but he wasn't and fitted to replace an injured rider. Which is much more preferable to a guest (eurgh) or R/R. 

Disagree, R/R would have been preferable to a ringer.

[stevebrum 6,829]

19 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

Basically the (poorly written) rules were different last year than they were when Wolves were missing their top 2!

They've changed again for next year, so even if Ipswich were missing Doyle & Sayfutdinov for the play-offs they couldn't draft in Lambert!

Very poorly written as they get abused time after time.

im not sure which part of the rule was different to when wolves asked tho because as far as I’m aware there has always been a cut off date for transfers for the play offs, no signings after that deadline  and guests from other teams (laterally only teams outside the play offs) only allowed for injured riders.

The only more recent change to that has been the replacement only for proven season ending injuries. That seemed to hold up to the standard that was applied to Wolves when their top 2 were injured because the move got refused.

It was only on appeal that Lambert was allowed. Seems that was allowed when possibly denied to other teams.

Anyway who knows? The rules are at best fluid and that won’t change much and you can be sure some promoter will look at the next loophole to explore so no doubt this topic will be rehashed at the end of this or next season. 

 

[4BM 117]

So Sportowefakty reporting that after Tobiasz’s off earlier today that he’s broken his collarbone, next meetings are 20th, 24th & 27th April, hopefully he’s back sooner than later as he’ll be a big miss in any meeting he’s but fit enough to ride in.  If we need a guest then should be some good options who are the right side of the numbers like Sam Masters, NKI, Harris to name a few, sure the boys will be able to cover with R/R at home 

[Roger Jacobs 554]

5 hours ago, 4BM said:

So Sportowefakty reporting that after Tobiasz’s off earlier today that he’s broken his collarbone, next meetings are 20th, 24th & 27th April, hopefully he’s back sooner than later as he’ll be a big miss in any meeting he’s but fit enough to ride in.  If we need a guest then should be some good options who are the right side of the numbers like Sam Masters, NKI, Harris to name a few, sure the boys will be able to cover with R/R at home 

Musielak posted he has a broken right clavicle, and it requires an operation ...

Edited April 9, 2023 by Roger Jacobs