Peter Collins Book

[OveFundinFan 4,143]

I am about two thirds through the 500 plus pages. It is an extremely well put together history of PC’s career, starting from a very young age, very young. 
Having lived and brought up in the same small village of Partington, sort of 10 miles south west of Manchester, I find his detail of life at that time very interesting. The passing away of Bill Collins, Peters dad, at such a young age, and of his mechanic George Clarke, again so young, was very touching. Two nice guys.   
Earlier in this thread I commented the first chapter I read was Mechanics (as I valued my mechanics when I was doing club level grass tracking). Another interesting chapter was the one about music he listened to whilst travelling to meetings. 60,000 travel miles a year… there is only so much small chat you can cover with your mechanic/driver. He met some amazing artists during his travels. I too was/am a fan of the Hollies and ELO, to get to meet them would be amazing. Peter did, I am jealous..
I still have a third of the book to read, one day it may be a single chapter, another day 2 maybe 3 chapters. I am sure the remaining chapters will divulge a lot more insight into Peters highly successful career.  
           
Big surprise for me was chapter 6, paragraph 3.

Well done to Peter, TonyMac and Sue, plus all the others, and there will be many, who put together this record of Peters career…….arguably Englands most successful speedway rider (he is in my mind anyway).

I have read Chris Morton’s “Until the can runs dry”, a very good read. I want to read Dave Morton’s book. I always thought Dave was going to be a very top rider but maybe his serious accident curtailed his progress to that very top level. And I still waiting for a book that will cover what really went on behind the scenes leading to Belle Vues new stadium and the first 12 months of its management. Just curious.

 

[steve roberts 9,246]

6 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

I am about two thirds through the 500 plus pages. It is an extremely well put together history of PC’s career, starting from a very young age, very young. 
Having lived and brought up in the same small village of Partington, sort of 10 miles south west of Manchester, I find his detail of life at that time very interesting. The passing away of Bill Collins, Peters dad, at such a young age, and of his mechanic George Clarke, again so young, was very touching. Two nice guys.   
Earlier in this thread I commented the first chapter I read was Mechanics (as I valued my mechanics when I was doing club level grass tracking). Another interesting chapter was the one about music he listened to whilst travelling to meetings. 60,000 travel miles a year… there is only so much small chat you can cover with your mechanic/driver. He met some amazing artists during his travels. I too was/am a fan of the Hollies and ELO, to get to meet them would be amazing. Peter did, I am jealous..
I still have a third of the book to read, one day it may be a single chapter, another day 2 maybe 3 chapters. I am sure the remaining chapters will divulge a lot more insight into Peters highly successful career.  
           
Big surprise for me was chapter 6, paragraph 3.

Well done to Peter, TonyMac and Sue, plus all the others, and there will be many, who put together this record of Peters career…….arguably Englands most successful speedway rider (he is in my mind anyway).

I have read Chris Morton’s “Until the can runs dry”, a very good read. I want to read Dave Morton’s book. I always thought Dave was going to be a very top rider but maybe his serious accident curtailed his progress to that very top level. And I still waiting for a book that will cover what really went on behind the scenes leading to Belle Vues new stadium and the first 12 months of its management. Just curious.

 

...Certainly wetting my appetite!

[TonyMac 720]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:19 AM, OveFundinFan said:

And I still waiting for a book that will cover what really went on behind the scenes leading to Belle Vues new stadium and the first 12 months of its management. Just curious.

 

PC's account of that turbulent period is laid bare in later chapters.

[Wee Eck 703]

2 hours ago, TonyMac said:

PC's account of that turbulent period is laid bare in later chapters.

In truth, PC has no knowledge of that. He wasn’t part of the consortium and, despite his recollection, his views on the NSS were never sought nor offered. My understanding is that his only involvement has been his well documented reaction to being refused life time passes for nearly 200 friends, helpers and employees, very few of whom had ever had anything to with Belle Vue. 

[martinmauger 584]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:19 AM, OveFundinFan said:

I am about two thirds through the 500 plus pages. It is an extremely well put together history of PC’s career, starting from a very young age, very young. 
Having lived and brought up in the same small village of Partington, sort of 10 miles south west of Manchester, I find his detail of life at that time very interesting. The passing away of Bill Collins, Peters dad, at such a young age, and of his mechanic George Clarke, again so young, was very touching. Two nice guys.   
Earlier in this thread I commented the first chapter I read was Mechanics (as I valued my mechanics when I was doing club level grass tracking). Another interesting chapter was the one about music he listened to whilst travelling to meetings. 60,000 travel miles a year… there is only so much small chat you can cover with your mechanic/driver. He met some amazing artists during his travels. I too was/am a fan of the Hollies and ELO, to get to meet them would be amazing. Peter did, I am jealous..
I still have a third of the book to read, one day it may be a single chapter, another day 2 maybe 3 chapters. I am sure the remaining chapters will divulge a lot more insight into Peters highly successful career.  
           
Big surprise for me was chapter 6, paragraph 3.

Well done to Peter, TonyMac and Sue, plus all the others, and there will be many, who put together this record of Peters career…….arguably Englands most successful speedway rider (he is in my mind anyway).

I have read Chris Morton’s “Until the can runs dry”, a very good read. I want to read Dave Morton’s book. I always thought Dave was going to be a very top rider but maybe his serious accident curtailed his progress to that very top level. And I still waiting for a book that will cover what really went on behind the scenes leading to Belle Vues new stadium and the first 12 months of its management. Just curious.

 

Was at an Ivan Mauger talk-in and when asked about the Mortons brothers he said "there was no difference (in ability) between Dave & Chris Morton, until Dave got injured", think it was from when Dave broke his thigh; at Hackney in 1976 ?....

[keepturningleft 589]

Having just finished reading the section in PC’s book about the free pass issue, I have to say that I am with PC on this one.

I can equate this with some personal experience of my own.

For nearly 25 years I was technical director of a theatre in a Northern college where our students across three year groups, performed in total, around 10 shows throughout the year most of which were open to the public.

With reasonable frequency over the years, former staff/tutors would return to watch shows and renew acquaintances. There was no question of charging them to come in. These were people who, in the main, had made important and valued contributions to the department through the years and the idea of charging them would have been embarrassing and demeaning.

I can’t even recall this subject ever coming up for discussion at any staff meeting.

I mean, how many former Belle Vue riders can there be that live in or near Manchester? A tiny handful. It seems quite mean spirited of the BV management to stick with such rigid formality rather than show some heart, waive the entrance fee and instead wave these valued old timers in.

If PC had not been able to secure the aces future at the greyhound stadium after the Hyde road closure, it’s almost certain that Belle Vue speedway would have disappeared into complete oblivion and the management and staff currently enjoying their positions at the NSS wouldn’t even be there because the NSS would never have been built.

BV owe Peter Collins a heck of a lot!

 

 

 

 

[fatface 2,554]

12 minutes ago, keepturningleft said:

Having just finished reading the section in PC’s book about the free pass issue, I have to say that I am with PC on this one.

I can equate this with some personal experience of my own.

For nearly 25 years I was technical director of a theatre in a Northern college where our students across three year groups, performed in total, around 10 shows throughout the year most of which were open to the public.

With reasonable frequency over the years, former staff/tutors would return to watch shows and renew acquaintances. There was no question of charging them to come in. These were people who, in the main, had made important and valued contributions to the department through the years and the idea of charging them would have been embarrassing and demeaning.

I can’t even recall this subject ever coming up for discussion at any staff meeting.

I mean, how many former Belle Vue riders can there be that live in or near Manchester? A tiny handful. It seems quite mean spirited of the BV management to stick with such rigid formality rather than show some heart, waive the entrance fee and instead wave these valued old timers in.

If PC had not been able to secure the aces future at the greyhound stadium after the Hyde road closure, it’s almost certain that Belle Vue speedway would have disappeared into complete oblivion and the management and staff currently enjoying their positions at the NSS wouldn’t even be there because the NSS would never have been built.

BV owe Peter Collins a heck of a lot!

 

 

 

 

I worked at Tesco's for 4 years as a student. Can you believe they won't let have free food now?

There's a difference in your comparison.

No one would question the right for PC to enter for free as a lifetime guest of honour. But riders who were paid for their time back in the 80s and 90s....Mark Crang, Bernie Collier, Barry Ayres, Paul Embley and hundreds of other wannabees, why should they get lifetime passes - that's the issue.

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by falcace

[fatface 2,554]

14 hours ago, martinmauger said:

Was at an Ivan Mauger talk-in and when asked about the Mortons brothers he said "there was no difference (in ability) between Dave & Chris Morton, until Dave got injured", think it was from when Dave broke his thigh; at Hackney in 1976 ?....

Interesting, I don't agree though. Chris was always bound for better things than Dave. Even being 2-3 years younger, he had reached a World Final and won the British under 21 title. Dave hadn't. I do think Dave could have been better though were it not for bad injuries, 

[bruno 1,790]

I've not read the book yet but how many freebies did PC want. Agree he should have got a lifetime pass not sure of hangers on tho

[Wee Eck 703]

1 hour ago, bruno said:

I've not read the book yet but how many freebies did PC want. Agree he should have got a lifetime pass not sure of hangers on tho

I’m led to believe about 180 - and not just for ex-riders. Several on the list were friends or people who’d worked for him, not necessarily relating to speedway. He was told any ex-BV rider would receive free admission. They just had to phone up and a ticket would be provided. But he wanted permanent physical passes so they didn’t have to phone up. There’s not a track in the country that would allow that. And no guarantee that a future promotion would feel bound to honour that. 
It’s a shame. The guy was a decent rider, not the best who ever rode for BV nor the best ever English rider, but he was loyal to the Aces and helpful, but little more than that, when John Perrin paid to open up at the Kirkmanshulme Lane greyhound stadium. 
I’m not sure if Kirky Lane would have opened without PC’s input, but it certainly wouldn’t have without John Perrin’s money. IMO

[TonyMac 720]

23 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

In truth, PC has no knowledge of that. He wasn’t part of the consortium and, despite his recollection, his views on the NSS were never sought nor offered. My understanding is that his only involvement has been his well documented reaction to being refused life time passes for nearly 200 friends, helpers and employees, very few of whom had ever had anything to with Belle Vue. 

He certainly does have inside knowledge of the unhappy (for him) 18 months or so when he WAS part of the original consortium at Kirky Lane, along with John Perrin, Norman Smith and Don Bowes, as he recalls in great detail in the book.

In the book, PC knowledge of events involving subsequent regimes is largely supported and embellished by George Carswell, who was heavily involved through the years with numerous promotions as a major investor who ultimately lost hundreds of thousands of pounds financing BV. 

As for your comments re. passes, they are wide of the mark. Again, PC states the facts in his book.

Edited December 24, 2022 by TonyMac

[TonyMac 720]

21 hours ago, martinmauger said:

Was at an Ivan Mauger talk-in and when asked about the Mortons brothers he said "there was no difference (in ability) between Dave & Chris Morton, until Dave got injured", think it was from when Dave broke his thigh; at Hackney in 1976 ?....

Dave's bad crash which badly broke his thigh was on May 13, 1977 - Hackney v Poole.

He had averaged a career-best 10.18 from 36 league and KO Cup matches in a brilliant 1976.

Or 10.28 from 32 BL matches, which saw him finish eighth in the overall BL averages.

[TonyMac 720]

6 hours ago, falcace said:

I worked at Tesco's for 4 years as a student. Can you believe they won't let have free food now?

There's a difference in your comparison.

No one would question the right for PC to enter for free as a lifetime guest of honour. But riders who were paid for their time back in the 80s and 90s....Mark Crang, Bernie Collier, Barry Ayres, Paul Embley and hundreds of other wannabees, why should they get lifetime passes - that's the issue.

 

It's about context and respect. As keepturningleft pointed out: 'How many former Belle Vue riders can there be that live in or near Manchester? A tiny handful. It seems quite mean spirited of the BV management to stick with such rigid formality rather than show some heart, waive the entrance fee and instead wave these valued old timers in.'

In fairness to the current BV regime, my understanding from speaking to several ex-Aces who have attended meetings this year, the club management's policy seems to be that all-ex BV riders ARE admitted free of charge . . . BUT they first have to contact Mark Lemon to get the OK from him. That obviously wouldn't be necessarily (and would save Mark time having to reply to requests) if BV simply issued the handful who wish to attend a seasonal pass with a passport-style photo that cannot be transferred to a mate or anyone else.

It must be a little demeaning for prominent ex-riders, including one legend (not PC), to have to phone or text Lemon to get his permission. For this reason I know of one ex-Ace who, to avoid embarrassment, either just stays away or pays to get in.

It shouldn't be this way.

As for the lesser lights you mentioned, my purely personal view if that everyone who put their neck on the line for any club in at least six official senior matches should be offered a season pass. If I was running a track, I'd want the ex-riders to feel welcome. If they are, they are so much more likely to spread positive vibes about the speedway, which can only be a good thing when the paying support is diminishing at most venues.

[TonyMac 720]

3 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

I’m led to believe about 180 - and not just for ex-riders. Several on the list were friends or people who’d worked for him, not necessarily relating to speedway. He was told any ex-BV rider would receive free admission. They just had to phone up and a ticket would be provided. But he wanted permanent physical passes so they didn’t have to phone up. There’s not a track in the country that would allow that. And no guarantee that a future promotion would feel bound to honour that. 
It’s a shame. The guy was a decent rider, not the best who ever rode for BV nor the best ever English rider, but he was loyal to the Aces and helpful, but little more than that, when John Perrin paid to open up at the Kirkmanshulme Lane greyhound stadium. 
I’m not sure if Kirky Lane would have opened without PC’s input, but it certainly wouldn’t have without John Perrin’s money. IMO

Again, your facts appear to be wrong. According to PC, Perrin didn't put in any money at the outset (it's all in the book, which you don't seem to have read). On the other hand, as front man, PC raised all the money needed to buy the riding assets and BL1 licence from Stuart Bamforth through sponsorship and donations. Norman Smith was repaid the tens of thousands he spent building the speedway track out of gate receipts, not Perrin's pocket.

Edited December 24, 2022 by TonyMac

[Wee Eck 703]

55 minutes ago, TonyMac said:

Again, your facts appear to be wrong. According to PC, Perrin didn't put in any money at the outset (it's all in the book, which you don't seem to have read). On the other hand, as front man, PC raised all the money needed to buy the riding assets and BL1 licence from Stuart Bamforth through sponsorship and donations. Norman Smith was repaid the tens of thousands he spent building the speedway track out of gate receipts, not Perrin's pocket.

I am happy to stick to my views, borne from knowledge rather than conjecture. 
My comment on the funding was that PC didn’t put any money in to Kirky Lane, something you confirm.
On the topic of the NSS, again, I stick by my comments. I don’t know how much money George put in to BV over the years but as far as the NSS was concerned, he was shown as a creditor for around £90k when BV went into liquidation in 2016/17. I am told that PC was never consulted by Chris Morton or David Gordon as far as the NSS is concerned. His recollection to the contrary is not correct. I’m sure Mort has told you that and told you why.