Sheffield vs. Belle Vue Grand Final 2nd Leg 13/10/22

[mikebv 10,315]

1 hour ago, 4thbender said:

Here’s a different view…

If the integrity of speedway racing is to be maintained amongst the panoply of British sporting endeavour, the outcome of the Speedway Premiership Grand Final must be reversed forthwith and awarded to the Sheffield team, on the following basis.

Heats 1 and 3 were the subject of re-runs after riders fell, the riders adjudged to be at fault having been excluded (rightly so) from the re-run. In heat eleven, the rider in white fell and the rider in red was adjudged to have been at fault. In keeping with the correct procedure carried out in the earlier heats, the referee should have initiated a re-run of heat 11 with three riders, the rider in red being excluded. In a totally unprecedented interpretation of the rules however, the referee failed to initiate a re-run, but pre-empted its result by awarding Belle Vue a 5 – 1 race victory… .. in a re-run that had not taken place!

As witnessed by thousands of spectators in the stadium and countless thousands of viewers of the Eurosport TV broadcast, the rider in white failed to finish the race and was laid on the track 80 metres short of the finish line, and yet was inexplicably awarded 3 points (see the referee’s race card), in contravention of the spirit (if not the written rules) of speedway racing, the conventions of which stipulate that points are awarded according to the order of riders crossing the finishing line after the completion of four laps.

It is utterly unconscionable and against the spirit of speedway racing than a race non-finisher, regardless of circumstances, should be arbitrarily awarded a race win ahead of riders who completed four laps and crossed the finish line in open and fair competition.

Having failed to initiate a re-run therefore, the only fair and equitable option open to the referee (with the rider in white having failed to complete the race and the rider in red having been excluded) was to award points to the only two riders to legitimately finish the race, i.e. three points to the rider in yellow and two to the rider in blue. This gives Belle Vue a 3 – 2 race victory, bringing the total accumulated points after heat 11 to 37 – 28 in Sheffield’s favour. Given that in the remaining four heats Sheffield scored 14 points to Belle Vue’s 10, this brings the final totals to 51 – 38 in Sheffield’s favour, giving Sheffield a victory by a single point over the two legs of the Premiership Grand Final.

As Elsa from Frozen may have sang..

"Let it Go! Let it Go!....

[nw42 2,053]

2 minutes ago, Rob B said:

The complaints about lack of atmosphere on TV coverage, I’ve noticed this at Belle Vue too, it’s because Eurosport are only putting microphones on home straight.

 So at Sheffield BV fans were on 4th bend only heard from a distance on TV and same at NSS the noise comes from the standing area on back straight but can’t hear it on TV. 

I thought the atmosphere came over ok, you could hear the fans every time an Aces rider pulled off a move, I was totally engrossed in it, only heard the same from the home crowd a couple of times though.   It was one of those wish I was there nights, brilliant support from the travelling faithful, that sight and sound must have given the riders a lift, definitely worth a few points on the night, who knows if that's what inspired Tom Brennan to greater heights,  I did wish I was there. 

[4thbender 382]

3 minutes ago, mikebv said:

As Elsa from Frozen may have sang..

"Let it Go! Let it Go!....

This is the speedway equivalent of Mo Salah being brought down by Kyle Walker in City's penalty area in the 90th minute of the cup final with the scores level at 2 - 2 and the ref saying to Mo "Don't bother with the penalty, I'll just award Liverpool the goal." Bet you'd have something to say about that!

[nw42 2,053]

8 minutes ago, 4thbender said:

This is an important decision - it affects the outcome of the 2022 Speedway Premiership Grand Final and it seems to hinge upon the referee taking out a crystal ball to predict the outcome of a re-run which never happened. So instead it would appear that the efforts of the two riders who legitimately crossed the line first  - the riders in Yellow and blue (the rider in red having been excluded) - were leap-frogged by a rider lying on the track 80 metres back from the chequered flag. The two legitimate finishers were in no part to blame for the demise of the fallen rider, so I simply put it to you that they are deserving of the points for first and second place respectively. I don't believe this precise situation has ever occurred in 94 years of British speedway history. But it makes a massive difference to the outcome of the single most iconic event of the 2022 British Speedway calendar. I don't know what the ACU will make of it.

Wow, you've got it bad mate, it's over, done with, enjoy it for what it was, a great final on 2 of the fastest tracks you could wish for in this country, yes the gate 3 fiasco was a joke but we still got plenty of good racing and the outcome was in the balance until the later stages.  For me, it's been mentioned by others too, the reason you lost was, in the main, down to your golden boy Jack Holder not getting into the groove when it really counted, also to an extent Kyle Howarth, he can never be accused of not giving his all but on Thursday he just didn't click, maybe too tense.

Just wondering, what with your name and all that, is this bitterness stemming from the fact you had your bend invaded on Thursday?  Must've been awful, all that noise and jubilation.

[Sir Sidney 292]

2 hours ago, 4thbender said:

Here’s a different view…

If the integrity of speedway racing is to be maintained amongst the panoply of British sporting endeavour, the outcome of the Speedway Premiership Grand Final must be reversed forthwith and awarded to the Sheffield team, on the following basis.

Heats 1 and 3 were the subject of re-runs after riders fell, the riders adjudged to be at fault having been excluded (rightly so) from the re-run. In heat eleven, the rider in white fell and the rider in red was adjudged to have been at fault. In keeping with the correct procedure carried out in the earlier heats, the referee should have initiated a re-run of heat 11 with three riders, the rider in red being excluded. In a totally unprecedented interpretation of the rules however, the referee failed to initiate a re-run, but pre-empted its result by awarding Belle Vue a 5 – 1 race victory… .. in a re-run that had not taken place!

As witnessed by thousands of spectators in the stadium and countless thousands of viewers of the Eurosport TV broadcast, the rider in white failed to finish the race and was laid on the track 80 metres short of the finish line, and yet was inexplicably awarded 3 points (see the referee’s race card), in contravention of the spirit (if not the written rules) of speedway racing, the conventions of which stipulate that points are awarded according to the order of riders crossing the finishing line after the completion of four laps.

It is utterly unconscionable and against the spirit of speedway racing than a race non-finisher, regardless of circumstances, should be arbitrarily awarded a race win ahead of riders who completed four laps and crossed the finish line in open and fair competition.

Having failed to initiate a re-run therefore, the only fair and equitable option open to the referee (with the rider in white having failed to complete the race and the rider in red having been excluded) was to award points to the only two riders to legitimately finish the race, i.e. three points to the rider in yellow and two to the rider in blue. This gives Belle Vue a 3 – 2 race victory, bringing the total accumulated points after heat 11 to 37 – 28 in Sheffield’s favour. Given that in the remaining four heats Sheffield scored 14 points to Belle Vue’s 10, this brings the final totals to 51 – 38 in Sheffield’s favour, giving Sheffield a victory by a single point over the two legs of the Premiership Grand Final.

Or of course you could just read the regulations 

011.1.15Awarding a Heat
If the leading rider has completed at least 2 laps, then the Referee shall 
have the sole discretion to either order a re-run or award the heat based 
upon the positions when it was caused to be stopped; riders, other than the 
one disqualified being advanced one place.
 

So  my interpretation is what caused it to be stopped was Kurtz being hit by Musielak. Therefore, given that at that point Kurtz was on his bike it is perfectly correct for the ref to award him the race win.

The regs are available to download online. No mystery, no secrecy, no conspiracy.

Give it a go. They are quite interesting  

[4thbender 382]

1 minute ago, nw42 said:

Wow, you've got it bad mate, it's over, done with, enjoy it for what it was, a great final on 2 of the fastest tracks you could wish for in this country, yes the gate 3 fiasco was a joke but we still got plenty of good racing and the outcome was in the balance until the later stages.  For me, it's been mentioned by others too, the reason you lost was, in the main, down to your golden boy Jack Holder not getting into the groove when it really counted, also to an extent Kyle Howarth, he can never be accused of not giving his all but on Thursday he just didn't click, maybe too tense.

Just wondering, what with your name and all that, is this bitterness stemming from the fact you had your bend invaded on Thursday?  Must've been awful, all that noise and jubilation.

People on here are constantly moaning about their sport not being taken seriously, making up the rules as they go on, dragging the sport into the mire, etc. etc. And yet, when it comes to a wrongful decision affecting the outcome of no less an event than the Premiership Grand Final, they say it doesn't matter and it's of no consequence. 

For the record, I thoroughly enjoyed the event - it was a joy to mix with the BV fans on bend 4 (got a bit concerned by the flares with kids around, mind you). Nevertheless, it seems no-one can provide any justification for a cock-eyed ruling that effectively changed the result. A bit awkward for any sport that wants to prove it's serious about fair competition.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

1 hour ago, 4thbender said:

Can anyone provide a single example in the history of speedway when a race non-finisher was awarded three points for a race win, ahead of two other riders who had legitimately finished the race?

Stop being a twonk!! 

It has happened dozens of times every year - awarding races is nothing unsual

[Sir Sidney 292]

2 minutes ago, 4thbender said:

People on here are constantly moaning about their sport not being taken seriously, making up the rules as they go on, dragging the sport into the mire, etc. etc. And yet, when it comes to a wrongful decision affecting the outcome of no less an event than the Premiership Grand Final, they say it doesn't matter and it's of no consequence. 

For the record, I thoroughly enjoyed the event - it was a joy to mix with the BV fans on bend 4 (got a bit concerned by the flares with kids around, mind you). Nevertheless, it seems no-one can provide any justification for a cock-eyed ruling that effectively changed the result. A bit awkward for any sport that wants to prove it's serious about fair competition.

Our posts crossed. See previous.  Not cock eyed at all and covered by the regs

[4thbender 382]

3 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

Or of course you could just read the regulations 

011.1.15Awarding a Heat
If the leading rider has completed at least 2 laps, then the Referee shall 
have the sole discretion to either order a re-run or award the heat based 
upon the positions when it was caused to be stopped; riders, other than the 
one disqualified being advanced one place.
 

So  my interpretation is what caused it to be stopped was Kurtz being hit by Musielak. Therefore, given that at that point Kurtz was on his bike it is perfectly correct for the ref to award him the race win.

The regs are available to download online. No mystery, no secrecy, no conspiracy.

Give it a go. They are quite interesting  

Seen it, but the rider in white wasn't in the lead when he came a cropper.

[Sir Sidney 292]

Just now, 4thbender said:

Seen it, but the rider in white wasn't in the lead when he came a cropper.

That simply depends on why the ref excluded Tobias. If she excluded him for hitting Brady, which he did and I don't think is disputed,  then at that point Brady was at worst in second place.

In accordance with the rules, Tobias was excluded and the others promoted one place at the time of the cause of the exclusion. 

Simple

[mikebv 10,315]

59 minutes ago, 4thbender said:

This is the speedway equivalent of Mo Salah being brought down by Kyle Walker in City's penalty area in the 90th minute of the cup final with the scores level at 2 - 2 and the ref saying to Mo "Don't bother with the penalty, I'll just award Liverpool the goal." Bet you'd have something to say about that!

Not with those two teams...

I would have hoped they'd both lose....

[mikebv 10,315]

34 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

That simply depends on why the ref excluded Tobias. If she excluded him for hitting Brady, which he did and I don't think is disputed,  then at that point Brady was at worst in second place.

In accordance with the rules, Tobias was excluded and the others promoted one place at the time of the cause of the exclusion. 

Simple

And if Musielak had just fell on his own but it meant the race to be stopped, and then Kurtz's engine blew after the red light had come on, therefore meaning he didnt cross the line, the race would have been awarded to Brady as he was leading (under power) at the time of the stoppage...

As with all awarded races...

You dont have to cross the line to win it...

Edited October 15, 2022 by mikebv

[r8gdp 463]

Think this threads going to go on for sometime with differing views from the Sheffield and Belle Vue fans .My view is that Belle Vue were always going to win when they signed R Lambert.With M fricke in the side I am sure Sheffield would have won.But hey ho it’s done .Hope everyone that turned up enjoyed both meeting s .Me personally I am not a lover of the play offs and have lost a lot of enthusiasm for the sport , only been to 2 meetings this year . Watched most of the gps on the tv but being in the beat the bookie Comp run by R/R keep s that interesting lol.

[SUPERACE 440]

2 hours ago, 4thbender said:

Seen it, but the rider in white wasn't in the lead when he came a cropper.

The rule is simple mate, Tobi goes, so you award the race based on current positions without the rider who is excluded, so it was a clear 5-1 to BV.

[ouch 1,197]

3 hours ago, 4thbender said:

Can anyone provide a single example in the history of speedway when a race non-finisher was awarded three points for a race win, ahead of two other riders who had legitimately finished the race?

Not one. 
 

If you include awarded heats I’ve seen then it’s 347.