Simon Stead and Oliver Allen.... Stand down?

[Gavan 5,050]

1 hour ago, a4poster said:

From my point of view if Woffinden performed to the level that is expected of him we would be World Champions and Messrs Allen and Stead would be lauded as  tactical genius' as we are only talking about a two point swing.

What level are you expecting Tai to perform at???

His 2013 level or 2015 level?

We’re you expecting Chris Holder to do better as he was a past world champion or Nicki Pedersen??

Tai’s level now is about world number 10 or so …. About as good as Janowski or Dudek …. He isn’t as good as Madsen , Jack Holder, Doyle …. And will struggle to beat the likes of Thomsen and Michelsen and Fricke and certainly isn’t anywhere near Zmarzliks class 

Riders lose form as they get older …. Remember Nicki and Chris fighting for a world title now they can’t get in their country’s top 4

Tai is a 3 time world champion and people expecting him to be at that level are kidding themselves 

In that class of company I thought Tai would do well to get 9 

Peoples judgement of him is because he once was the worlds best and last night after 2 , in my opinion unexpected wins, we assume he should have scored more and I agree that one point form his last 3 wasn’t good 

However i also expected Bewley to get more than 9 yet he escapes anyone’s criticism as it’s easier to bash Tai….. though in Bewleys defence he did have to wait a long time between his second and third rides which wasn’t ideal 

[Ben91 1,743]

6 hours ago, eric i said:

Their decision not to include riders in the GB squad because they didn't want to compete in lesser competitions has cost GB dearly IMO. We will never know what Charles Wright would have scored but any sane man would have put money on him scoring a point in the final. Such a poor decision would not have been made by the likes of Gary May, Stewart Dickson or Middleditch........time for a change.

It was the correct decision. They’re building a team spirit and riders such as Brennan and Ellis have time to improve still. 

Any criticism of our team or the management after missing out on the World Cup in the final race is a little silly if you ask me. 

[GeneralMelchett 495]

44 minutes ago, Gavan said:

What level are you expecting Tai to perform at???

His 2013 level or 2015 level?

We’re you expecting Chris Holder to do better as he was a past world champion or Nicki Pedersen??

Tai’s level now is about world number 10 or so …. About as good as Janowski or Dudek …. He isn’t as good as Madsen , Jack Holder, Doyle …. And will struggle to beat the likes of Thomsen and Michelsen and Fricke and certainly isn’t anywhere near Zmarzliks class 

Riders lose form as they get older …. Remember Nicki and Chris fighting for a world title now they can’t get in their country’s top 4

Tai is a 3 time world champion and people expecting him to be at that level are kidding themselves 

In that class of company I thought Tai would do well to get 9 

Peoples judgement of him is because he once was the worlds best and last night after 2 , in my opinion unexpected wins, we assume he should have scored more and I agree that one point form his last 3 wasn’t good 

However i also expected Bewley to get more than 9 yet he escapes anyone’s criticism as it’s easier to bash Tai….. though in Bewleys defence he did have to wait a long time between his second and third rides which wasn’t ideal 

Both our early heat wins were off gate 1 - it was a huge advantage in the first heats! 

[Grachan 7,364]

1 hour ago, Gavan said:

What level are you expecting Tai to perform at???

His 2013 level or 2015 level?

We’re you expecting Chris Holder to do better as he was a past world champion or Nicki Pedersen??

Tai’s level now is about world number 10 or so …. About as good as Janowski or Dudek …. He isn’t as good as Madsen , Jack Holder, Doyle …. And will struggle to beat the likes of Thomsen and Michelsen and Fricke and certainly isn’t anywhere near Zmarzliks class 

Riders lose form as they get older …. Remember Nicki and Chris fighting for a world title now they can’t get in their country’s top 4

Tai is a 3 time world champion and people expecting him to be at that level are kidding themselves 

In that class of company I thought Tai would do well to get 9 

Peoples judgement of him is because he once was the worlds best and last night after 2 , in my opinion unexpected wins, we assume he should have scored more and I agree that one point form his last 3 wasn’t good 

However i also expected Bewley to get more than 9 yet he escapes anyone’s criticism as it’s easier to bash Tai….. though in Bewleys defence he did have to wait a long time between his second and third rides which wasn’t ideal 

Tai was similar to how he is in the GPs these days where he looks great in some heats and poor in others 

Often he looks like a potential winner only to fail to even make the semis.

The management decisions were fine, but we neede the top 3 to get big points. Even without that we came close enough to nearly give me a heart attack.

One thing I might have done differently would have been to put Bewley in the last race based on his Grand Prix final record of 3 finals and 3 wins. Probably would have made no difference though. Poland were so determined at the end.

 

[Bagpuss 10,795]

5 hours ago, eric i said:

Thats is what is wrong, it should be the riders that are most likely to score the most points. Charles wright would have been more likely than Brennen to score points. I think it cost us.

I expect the logic was that those who ride most Sundays in Poland were more likely to score points.

[eric i 621]

3 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I expect the logic was that those who ride most Sundays in Poland were more likely to score points.

That's silly logic to suggest those who ride in Poland will be the best riders for the job. By that logic if Brennen, Eliis and Worral were injured would you have put Kemp in the team.

[eric i 621]

1 hour ago, Ben91 said:

It was the correct decision. They’re building a team spirit and riders such as Brennan and Ellis have time to improve still. 

Any criticism of our team or the management after missing out on the World Cup in the final race is a little silly if you ask me. 

This 'giving them experience' should really not enter calculations. When fighting for medal it should be top 5 riders.

If you care to the read world cup thread, there was lots of criticism from myself and others when the GB squad was announced. 

[Bagpuss 10,795]

5 minutes ago, eric i said:

That's silly logic to suggest those who ride in Poland will be the best riders for the job. By that logic if Brennen, Eliis and Worral were injured would you have put Kemp in the team.

Don't know about Kemp but not a silly logic for me, made perfect sense. Riders like Lawson and Wright could have been all at sea on a completely unfamiliar type of track. Brennan was competitive in his first heat if not his second.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree but I called the five man team weeks and weeks ago.

 

 

[eric i 621]

1 minute ago, Bagpuss said:

Don't know about Kemp but not a silly logic for me, made perfect sense. Riders like Lawson and Wright could have been all at sea on a completely unfamiliar type of track. Brennan was competitive in his first heat if not his second.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree but I called the five man team weeks and weeks ago.

 

 

According to a lot of the riders Wroclaw track is most similar to Belle Vue, Charles Wright has a higher average than Tom Brennen despite Brennen being at reserve.

[Ben91 1,743]

7 hours ago, eric i said:

This 'giving them experience' should really not enter calculations. When fighting for medal it should be top 5 riders.

If you care to the read world cup thread, there was lots of criticism from myself and others when the GB squad was announced. 

We got a medal. 

To finish second to Poland in Poland is no disgrace. Turns out all that criticism was, and still is, wrong. 

[Deano 1,318]

10 hours ago, eric i said:

According to a lot of the riders Wroclaw track is most similar to Belle Vue, Charles Wright has a higher average than Tom Brennen despite Brennen being at reserve.

I don't know how long you have been watching speedway, but traditionally UK based riders are awful around Polish tracks. It's a completely different set up using different surface material. Likewise the Poles are pretty awful around ours.  I used to wince watching the old 4TT format when our best at the time the likes of Screen, Dugard, Loram etc looked second rate on Polish soil. There's a lot to be said about coming second to Poland in Poland, that to me is a big achievement and it's pretty sad that because we didn't win all the toys come out the pram. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Deano

[chunky 6,115]

12 hours ago, eric i said:

According to a lot of the riders Wroclaw track is most similar to Belle Vue, Charles Wright has a higher average than Tom Brennen despite Brennen being at reserve.

It would be nice - and respectful - if you could learn to spell "Brennan"...

[SPEEDY69 1,272]

Very small margins and GB could easily have won - congratulations to them, they did me proud. 

I don't believe they lack any mental strength at all, unfortunately the way some races pan out it can be another who presents an obstacle e.g. Fricke in Ht 20 held up Lambert which allowed Janowski to pass.  Janowski himself had to ride the outside as he had nothing to lose - sometimes being the chaser is easier than being the chased and Lambert was no doubt settling for second (bar any mistakes from Fricke) after a couple of laps. 

Any suggestions Poland are miles ahead was clearly de-bunked.

[eric i 621]

People are misunderstanding this thread, there is no criticism  of the riders who all give it 100%. The criticism is of Simon Stead and Oliver Allen who didn't pick the top 5 riders.

[iainb 5,059]

14 minutes ago, eric i said:

The criticism is of Simon Stead and Oliver Allen who didn't pick the top 5 riders.

Who are the top 5 riders?