AceBelle 43 Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Crazy robin said: Not read through all the posts so might be posting what others already have but how Mark Lemon can say they’ve been unlucky with injuries in the play offs compared to the other teams is ridiculous. Sheffield have lost their best 2 riders & Ipswich have lost Doyley who is irreplaceable. Yes The Aces have lost Charles & might be without Blodorn but they are not unlucky as Lemon put it. Lemon means over previous years last year with fricke wright Etheridge 3 riders lost and year before kurtz when peterboro won Edited September 19, 2023 by AceBelle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy robin 2,963 Posted September 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, ouch said: To be fair to Mark the article was published on Sunday but Hayley spoke to him the day before and before the GP where Jason was injured. It was also before Tobiasz was injured on Sunday. I also think he was referring to the fact it’s been five times out of the last six that we’ve been hit by play off injury woes. Fair enough then 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,096 Posted September 20, 2023 13 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said: BV didn't replace their #1 "just for the play-offs", they replaced him when they had to because of injury. They used the same regulation that Sheffield and Ipswich had used to make an additional line-up change - and both the Tigers and the Witches abused that Reg when the "long term injury" rider came back to race in the Championship, but not for the Prem team. In Sheffield's case the replacement improved their team and the injured rider never came back. For the Witches, they brought the injured rider back for one league match, which meant he would be eligible for their 2023 line-up. You are correct BV didnt replace Fricke before the play offs, they replaced him during the play offs, they had a guest for the first leg of the semi and Lambert for the second leg. You cannot do that now, you also have to use the same guest for both legs but that rule goes back a while. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 20, 2023 2 hours ago, foreverblue said: You are correct BV didnt replace Fricke before the play offs, they replaced him during the play offs, they had a guest for the first leg of the semi and Lambert for the second leg. You cannot do that now, you also have to use the same guest for both legs but that rule goes back a while. He didn't ride the 1st leg due to the legal dispute, Robert should been in the away leg at Ipswich. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, SUPERACE said: He didn't ride the 1st leg due to the legal dispute, Robert should been in the away leg at Ipswich. In other words he signed during the playoffs, not before them 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Jacobs 554 Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, foreverblue said: You are correct BV didnt replace Fricke before the play offs, they replaced him during the play offs, they had a guest for the first leg of the semi and Lambert for the second leg. You cannot do that now, you also have to use the same guest for both legs but that rule goes back a while. The point I was making is that BV used the "long term injury" regulation. The timing is irrelevant. Each time I've brought up the fact that both Sheffield and Ipswich used (and abused) that Reg, people just ignore it, as if BV were the only "guilty" party. I don't think you *have* to use the same guest for both legs - the Reg says: "A rider may only guest for one team in any 2 legged tie (home and away)." The wording was introduced to prevent the stupid situation of the same rider appearing once for each team in a two-legged tie. Edited September 20, 2023 by Roger Jacobs 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Call me wolfie said: In other words he signed during the playoffs, not before them Hi signed after Fricke got a season ending injury. Which was before the play offs started, so no not during but before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,096 Posted September 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: The point I was making is that BV used the "long term injury" regulation. The timing is irrelevant. Each time I've brought up the fact that both Sheffield and Ipswich used (and abused) that Reg, people just ignore it, as if BV were the only "guilty" party. I don't think you *have* to use the same guest for both legs - the Reg says: "A rider may only guest for one team in any 2 legged tie (home and away)." The wording was introduced to prevent the stupid situation of the same rider appearing once for each team in a two-legged tie. Yes I know as that is what happened years ago when Poole rode against Kings Lynn in an Elite League Final and it was decided that Morris had to ride for Poole in both legs and Ellis for Kings Lynn in both legs as it would not look good to have the same rider riding for two different teams in a high profile decider. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted September 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, SUPERACE said: Hi signed after Fricke got a season ending injury. Which was before the play offs started, so no not during but before. The rules weren't intended to allow it to happen hence the original attempt to sign him was rejected. It was only when Lemon threatened legal action because the rules were so poorly written that it was finally allowed. No one was allowed to due it in the years prior and no one's allowed to do it now. That's why it's such a sore point with many. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therefused 819 Posted September 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, foreverblue said: Yes I know as that is what happened years ago when Poole rode against Kings Lynn in an Elite League Final and it was decided that Morris had to ride for Poole in both legs and Ellis for Kings Lynn in both legs as it would not look good to have the same rider riding for two different teams in a high profile decider. Which also put Poole over the points limit if I remember... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted September 20, 2023 55 minutes ago, foreverblue said: Yes I know as that is what happened years ago when Poole rode against Kings Lynn in an Elite League Final and it was decided that Morris had to ride for Poole in both legs and Ellis for Kings Lynn in both legs as it would not look good to have the same rider riding for two different teams in a high profile decider. But having two Swindon riders riding in the Poole v KL final in the first place was considered absolutely fine.... I wonder why companies who are none Speedway related dont sponsor the leagues..? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,096 Posted September 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, therefused said: Which also put Poole over the points limit if I remember... We are Poole, we do what we like, thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,096 Posted September 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, mikebv said: But having two Swindon riders riding in the Poole v KL final in the first place was considered absolutely fine.... I wonder why companies who are none Speedway related dont sponsor the leagues..? It was fair we had one and Kings Lynn had one!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: It was only when Lemon threatened legal action because the rules were so poorly written. So finally, we can all agree he didnt break any rules then.... As they were "poorly written" they were open to "interpretation" and, therefore, "challenge"... Just like all the "poorly written rules" have been brilliantly challenged and used down the years, ad nauseam, to gain an advantage by the likes of Ian Thomas, Len Silver, Matt Ford and probably many, many more... If you dont want subjectivity and ambiguity, then make the rules up using clarity and precision... . Not hard to do.... Edited September 20, 2023 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old bob at herne bay 828 Posted September 20, 2023 I often wonder what would happen if you had no rules about team building at all , just said each team must have 7 riders. Scrap averages completely for team building, jt retain them for statistical purposes. Some would say that the "rich clubs" would always win. Doesn't that happen now ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
