The Dog Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 I'm sure they do add some more bums on seats but sadly not enough to be able to invest anything back into a club, and when they leave, the clubs are back to square one again. The same happened years ago with the Sky money, pretty much everything went to the riders and nothing put aside for track prep, upgraded facilities or even the chance to own your own track. Sadly, promoters can't see further than the end of their nose whilst riders get daft deals that will ultimately be their own downfall when there's nobody left to ride for. It's just bad economics all round really. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillenTheVillen Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Getting proof of attendance at any speedway meeting is like counting hens teeth You'd have the same issue trying to prove my claim isnt true They aren't the saviours although they would have more chance of being so if it weren't for to the woeful way the sport is administrated As for them draining the money I don't agree. That largely comes from TV and individual sponsors who in general wouldn't put that money in for a run of the mill alternative So your saying they are Squandering TV money and Sponsor money on riders who are are adding 200 to each home Meeting....that in it's is part of the problem with British Speedway ...spend more to bring in less makes a lot of sense right enough! The state of the top flight with it's 4-6 teams is proof the big names are not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 4 hours ago, MillenTheVillen said: If this is the case why isn't some of the "TV Money" being used to bring the youngsters on...The Youth Championship no longer gets payments towards clubs hosting a round therefore half the Clubs don't bother (payments I believe used to be around £600 per meeting to help with Medical Cover Etc). Why isn't some of it being used to pay towards Clubs running Qualifying Meetings for each Leagues Riders Championships so every rider named in a 1-7 can Qualify for the Final and make it meaningful? Everyone blames Godfrey and Co for everything yet the "Top Six " takes all the money and splashes it on big names looking for top up wages who actually don't add to the gate numbers? The TV money goes to the clubs that feature on TV, that’s simple enough. The SCB/ BSPL have no interest in the youth or they wouldn’t have withdrawn the funding in the first place. Godfrey should shoulder SOME of the blame, he presides over the whole shambles after all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, MillenTheVillen said: So your saying they are Squandering TV money and Sponsor money on riders who are are adding 200 to each home Meeting....that in it's is part of the problem with British Speedway ...spend more to bring in less makes a lot of sense right enough! The state of the top flight with it's 4-6 teams is proof the big names are not working. The reality is that there is no clear direction, hence teams can pick and choose what level to race in, as and when it suits them.. Those in the top flight deserve the TV money as they are the ones that get covered.. Unfortunately, more teams in the top league would dilute that money, therefore it isn't viable for many teams to even consider it.. What we have is hanging on by a thread if you use the last ten years worth of track closures and defections as a barometer of the next decade to come... Maybe now Phil Morris has a full season (and pre season), he can make a fundamental difference.. Without a clear generic growth plan for the sport as a whole though, it will not work.. Sheffield and Glasgow won their respective leagues but it has hardly raised a ripple of publicity nationally... But, next year, if nothing changes, every track will no doubt, once again, try and ensure they can manipulate success by using some ill conceived, ambiguously written regulation that let's them have some success.. Whilst, all the while, diluting any kudos in winning, and preventing wider mainstream coverage, by their very insular focused actions.. UK Speedway sadly thinks small time, insular, and short term, and that isn't ever going to grow it organically, generically and nationally... Putting an extra 200 on one tracks gate due to their "success" really isn't progress.. Putting 200 on every track, however small that still may be, is... And may start some momentum for further growth.. Edited October 14, 2023 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Fortythirtyeight said: The TV money goes to the clubs that feature on TV, that’s simple enough. The SCB/ BSPL have no interest in the youth or they wouldn’t have withdrawn the funding in the first place. Godfrey should shoulder SOME of the blame, he presides over the whole shambles after all. Come on young man even you know in your position he only says to the dwindling masses what others have decided. Even if he disagrees he has to go with the majority 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 3 hours ago, MillenTheVillen said: So your saying they are Squandering TV money and Sponsor money on riders who are are adding 200 to each home Meeting....that in it's is part of the problem with British Speedway ...spend more to bring in less makes a lot of sense right enough! The state of the top flight with it's 4-6 teams is proof the big names are not working. You say squandering - I say utilising With your thinking you don't have the top riders which means you don't have the TV and sponsor money That evens out but then you have the 200 less fans which means the clubs are 200 lots of admission money worse off All is well though as we get to see Simon Lambert instead of Emil Sayfutdinov........ (Apologies to Simon - just the first name that came to mind ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 who does Morris answer to? How much power does he actually have? I am sure he's capable of making good decisions but would they be blocked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedtiger Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, mikebv said: The reality is that there is no clear direction, hence teams can pick and choose what level to race in, as and when it suits them.. Those in the top flight deserve the TV money as they are the ones that get covered.. Unfortunately, more teams in the top league would dilute that money, therefore it isn't viable for many teams to even consider it.. What we have is hanging on by a thread if you use the last ten years worth of track closures and defections as a barometer of the next decade to come... Maybe now Phil Morris has a full season (and pre season), he can make a fundamental difference.. Without a clear generic growth plan for the sport as a whole though, it will not work.. Sheffield and Glasgow won their respective leagues but it has hardly raised a ripple of publicity nationally... But, next year, if nothing changes, every track will no doubt, once again, try and ensure they can manipulate success by using some ill conceived, ambiguously written regulation that let's them have some success.. Whilst, all the while, diluting any kudos in winning, and preventing wider mainstream coverage, by their very insular focused actions.. UK Speedway sadly thinks small time, insular, and short term, and that isn't ever going to grow it organically, generically and nationally... Putting an extra 200 on one tracks gate due to their "success" really isn't progress.. Putting 200 on every track, however small that still may be, is... And may start some momentum for further growth.. Agreed, but the problems with British Speedway (and many other sports) are wide ranging and fairly complex and the time for radical change has sadly long gone. The opportunities missed due to poor management and navel gazing can not be changed with a silver bullet. I have little confidence that Phil Morris has the acumen or authority to make a significant difference. Back woodsman Godfrey clearly wants to bring down the sport down to his clubs level as frankly he hasn’t the capability or vision to raise the sports profile. Where do we go from here? Well we are past the point of no return and short of a miracle and an investment of many many millions of pounds I fear British speedway will continue to slowly spiral into oblivion. Edited October 15, 2023 by Speedtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 20 hours ago, MillenTheVillen said: Ok I'll take your bet, please provide proof to back up your statement that Emil is adding 200 to every track he's rode at this Season? There's this mistaken belief that the "Big Names" are British Speedways savours...yet to see it working as all they're doing is taking the big pounds out the Sport while they're allowed too. Tai definitely added to the crowds at Sheffield when he came back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 Surely Phil Morris has only been appointed as 'Chief Executive of Premiership Speedway' rather than the whole sport.?! His main aims, certainly initially, were to improve the presentation (promotion?) by all Premiership clubs for Eurosport/Discovery TV. I'm sure there is a Monty Python quote somewhere - "he's not the Messiah.....................?" (I forget the rest!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 " 3 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Surely Phil Morris has only been appointed as 'Chief Executive of Premiership Speedway' rather than the whole sport.?! His main aims, certainly initially, were to improve the presentation (promotion?) by all Premiership clubs for Eurosport/Discovery TV. I'm sure there is a Monty Python quote somewhere - "he's not the Messiah.....................?" (I forget the rest!) "he's just a very naughty boy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 46 minutes ago, Speedtiger said: Agreed, but the problems with British Speedway (and many other sports) are wide ranging and fairly complex and the time for radical change has sadly long gone. The opportunities missed due to poor management and navel gazing can not be changed with a silver bullet. I have little confidence that Phil Morris has the acumen or authority to make a significant difference. Back woodsman Godfrey clearly wants to bring down the sport down to his clubs level as frankly he hasn’t the capability or vision to raise the sports profile. Where do we go from here? Well we are past the point of no return and short of a miracle and an investment of many many millions of pounds I fear British speedway will continue to slowly spiral into oblivion. 100%, however what we have is pretty much all there will be.. Some tracks are "playthings" of the promoters who choose to spend big amounts on it.. This means that winning or losing doesnt make much difference to them as they will keep subsidising their "hobby".. Some tracks are the actual business of the promoter so they need to make money.. Meaning getting a "winning team" is paramount regardless of what entertainment value is on offer, or what integrity impacting rules some may need to try and circumnavigate to get that winning team.. The bottom line issue is very much a chicken and egg situation in that the sport needs big outside money to come into it, either via league or club sponsorship, or via a bigger TV deal... However, given the often "Mickey Mouse" way the sport is ran, you haven't a hope in hell of any major nationally well known businesses wanting to tie their brand to it... Hence, those well meaning, but ultimately bereft of the required skill set, "amateurs" will continue to try and run a professional sport... Doing "their best" i am sure, but with the inevitable outcome... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedtiger Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, mikebv said: 100%, however what we have is pretty much all there will be.. Some tracks are "playthings" of the promoters who choose to spend big amounts on it.. This means that winning or losing doesnt make much difference to them as they will keep subsidising their "hobby".. Some tracks are the actual business of the promoter so they need to make money.. Meaning getting a "winning team" is paramount regardless of what entertainment value is on offer, or what integrity impacting rules some may need to try and circumnavigate to get that winning team.. The bottom line issue is very much a chicken and egg situation in that the sport needs big outside money to come into it, either via league or club sponsorship, or via a bigger TV deal... However, given the often "Mickey Mouse" way the sport is ran, you haven't a hope in hell of any major nationally well known businesses wanting to tie their brand to it... Hence, those well meaning, but ultimately bereft of the required skill set, "amateurs" will continue to try and run a professional sport... Doing "their best" i am sure, but with the inevitable outcome... Yes doing ‘their amateur best’….has proved to be woefully inadequate. The current TV deal isn’t as lucrative as people may think. Sky pulled out of speedway because they couldn’t see a future and BT who’d show conker fights or arm wrestling rather than speedway also quickly pulled out. Major sponsors and media want and demand to be associated with success and the way speedways is ‘managed’ and it’s steady decline over recent years is hardly a sign of success. The only people to blame are the people who run the clubs and the sport as they have been asleep at the wheel and the truth is they’ve allowed the sport to dwindle into a non-entity that only a fool would invest in. Will things improve for 2024? I hope so, we will see what the AGM brings about but with Wolves and Peterborough out…Leicester and Kings Lynn and more clubs up for sale or financially close to ruin things are not looking very rosy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 What realistic and affordable change do fans want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceBelle Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Hilly said: What realistic and affordable change do fans want? Watching scunthorpe TV and commentary blokes said they heard a rumour six man teams for prem no RS ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, AceBelle said: Watching scunthorpe TV and commentary blokes said they heard a rumour six man teams for prem no RS ?? What’s the point in that? If they need to cut riders 6 man teams WITH a rising star makes more sense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Hilly said: What realistic and affordable change do fans want? For me the core product is very good, it is just the nonsense rules that prevent the actual leagues from ever being taken seriously... How the hell can anyone take seriously Peterborough's Bomber helping Ipswich to beat Belle Vue in the Semi, and then helping Sheffield beat Ipswich in the Final? You simply cannot market that.... Less riders per team would mean more riders to replace injured ones, so guests could be eradicated if the will was there .. A fit for purpose RR facility would also mean no need for guests... Development should be the 2nd Divs priority not Div 1, and clear demarcation within the leagues should always exist so the top league can be marketed as "Elite"... Every sport needs a "flagship" league that sells the sport with the other leagues feeding off it.. National generic marketing has to be the biggest opportunity. Huge amounts are spent on riders, very few of which bring a big crowd in, yet very, very little is spent on marketeers who may be able to put some bums on seats... Being able to take league racing seriously first though is needed before any money is spent hiring any marketing companies... 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerM22 Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 7 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Surely Phil Morris has only been appointed as 'Chief Executive of Premiership Speedway' rather than the whole sport.?! His main aims, certainly initially, were to improve the presentation (promotion?) by all Premiership clubs for Eurosport/Discovery TV. I'm sure there is a Monty Python quote somewhere - "he's not the Messiah.....................?" (I forget the rest!) When does he start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 4 hours ago, AceBelle said: Watching scunthorpe TV and commentary blokes said they heard a rumour six man teams for prem no RS ?? Not 6 man teams, I didn’t like that when they tried it for one season, stick to 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceBelle Posted October 15, 2023 Report Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: Not 6 man teams, I didn’t like that when they tried it for one season, stick to 7 only posting what they said ? it could be complete garbage who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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