Toady 231 Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, mikebv said: A pipe dream... You cannot run the level that the promoters want without ensuring many riders have to be full time pros.. 2nd Div Promoters want to use Div 1 level HL's, so that Div1 HL needs to be spending plenty and therefore expects a decent return... When £30k (and often well, well above) is the outlay on kit then riders need to ride as much as is possible.. In a perfect world, there would be clear demarcation within the leagues, and organic aspirational growth, with no rider sharing.. That ship sailed many, many years ago (if it had even ever been contemplated that is)... Speedway in the UK is in "survival mode" rather than "growth mode", and has been for a good many years, with promoters doing their level best in their own way to keep it going... If they could "run it properly like other sports" then I am 100% sure they would.. What we have is pretty much all there is, so no point in hoping for any magic wand to come along and change things.. Enjoy the racing, but dont get too bothered about the results, is the best way to look at UK Speedway... It still has the ability to provide huge excitement and a good night out when done well, as a fair few tracks do... Spot on, I’ve been saying the same for ages just enjoy and support what you’ve got while you can as it could be gone in a flash Edited October 11, 2023 by Toady 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,299 Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, TheWellBehavedWorrall said: I’ve liked this for honesty, but find it somewhat a defeatist mentality and that isn’t a criticism; I simply don’t know the costs associated with running a club. Your comment about enjoying the racing, but not getting bothered by the result is sad (again, not a criticism) because if you had been to Ashfield for the Oxford and Poole matches and no doubt Wimborne Road tonight, you’d see how much those results mean to people. You’re obviously well-educated on the subject, but I’d be interested to hear what your thoughts are on what’s caused British Speedway to find itself in this situation? Again, I’d like to reiterate that none of this is a criticism; you’re more than likely accurate with your comments and sometimes, the truth hurts. Not defeatist, just realistic... My thoughts on why we are where we are? The bandwidth of the forum wouldnt take it.... FWIW, there are two watershed moments for me... The first, the Sky tens of millions being used to basically pay top GP riders rather using it to invest in the sports' future, (both stadia and UK rider development).... (GP riders who pretty much all 'Foxtrot Oscared' when the money stopped).. And the second being post Covid. A HUGE opportunity to do something radical which would have been a "free hit" given the fans' craving to get back to watching speedway again.. Instead we had "same old, same old", which clearly hadn't been working pre Covid.. For those that still "take it seriously" and "believe it is real" similar to all other sports, I would never criticise their choice, and hope whoever wins any of the cups or titles enjoy the experience.. However, when something is allowed to take place as happened with Bomber in the semi and the final of the Premiership this year, you are asking a lot if you expect your sports' fanbase to regard it as a bona fide sporting championship.. Ultimately the Promoters do their best, but unfortunately many don't have the correct skill set to market and administer it, and, to be fair to them, probably don't need to as their track is often their personal hobby as a fan, so "big global picture" thinking doesn't form part of their overall remit... Unfortunately, that lack of "big global picture" thinking is probably its ultimate downfall... But, on the positive side, it is also its largest opportunity for generic growth should it ever be tried and delivered... Edited October 11, 2023 by mikebv 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheWellBehavedWorrall 289 Posted October 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, mikebv said: Not defeatist, just realistic... My thoughts on why we are where we are? The bandwidth of the forum wouldnt take it.... FWIW, there are two watershed moments for me... The first, the Sky tens of millions being used to basically pay top GP riders rather using it to invest in the sports' future, (both stadia and UK rider development).... (GP riders who pretty much all 'Foxtrot Oscared' when the money stopped).. And the second being post Covid. A HUGE opportunity to do something radical which would have been a "free hit" given the fans' craving to get back to watching speedway again.. Instead we had "same old, same old", which clearly hadn't been working pre Covid.. For those that still "take it seriously" and "believe it is real" similar to all other sports, I would never criticise their choice, and hope whoever wins any of the cups or titles enjoy the experience.. However, when something is allowed to take place as happened with Bomber in the semi and the final of the Premiership this year, you are asking a lot if you expect your sports' fanbase to regard it as a bona fide sporting championship.. Ultimately the Promoters do their best, but unfortunately many don't have the correct skill set to market and administer it, and, to be fair to them, probably don't need to as their track is often their personal hobby as a fan, so "big global picture" thinking doesn't form part of their overall remit... Unfortunately, that lack of "big global picture" thinking is probably its ultimate downfall... But, on the positive side, it is also its largest opportunity for generic growth should it ever be tried and delivered... That’s interesting, Mike, and very insightful. Thanks. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,046 Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) If the NL disappears as seems to be the case, it will certainly cause issues for the Championship. In the past when a decent young Brit (4-5) point rider has missed out on a team, he's been able to sign for a NL side to keep "race fit" even if he'd normally be above NL level. So Champ teams would have replacements ready to jump in to cover injuries / poor form. Now it would be harder to anticipate a rider keeping his equipment "up to scratch" with no racing available. Similar thoughts about the 2.00 juniors who jump in to cover injuries to reserves (Luke Harrison for example) gonna be an awful big step from second half racing against fellow juniors to racing in the Champ! Edited October 15, 2023 by szkocjasid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noelinho 925 Posted October 15, 2023 We really need some quality second half racing for those guys. But the question will be, who pays for it? So I don't see it happening. This is the kind of thing TV money should really be used for. Developing the product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torpointfanatic22 268 Posted October 17, 2023 The problem we have every year and it has been the same for the last 10-15 years, is that promoters will always look after themselves. Not saying they should or shouldn’t but that’s the reality. So they will always do what suits them best regardless of what we as fans think or what is logical. The BSPA is run by promoters for promoters so nothing will change because if they are surviving that appears good enough. I can’t see TV money continuing to come in where it’s the same teams week in, week out and I just don’t see the attraction to new supporters to see the same teams and riders over and over, and that’s not counting guests. It has to be one league, one standard where it’s competitive with variety. 14 teams would be great for the product and for supporters. Reality is it will be as many have said; two leagues, six and eight teams with Mickey Mouse cup competitions to fill blank race nights. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,378 Posted October 17, 2023 2 hours ago, torpointfanatic22 said: The problem we have every year and it has been the same for the last 10-15 years, is that promoters will always look after themselves. Not saying they should or shouldn’t but that’s the reality. So they will always do what suits them best regardless of what we as fans think or what is logical. The BSPA is run by promoters for promoters so nothing will change because if they are surviving that appears good enough. I can’t see TV money continuing to come in where it’s the same teams week in, week out and I just don’t see the attraction to new supporters to see the same teams and riders over and over, and that’s not counting guests. It has to be one league, one standard where it’s competitive with variety. 14 teams would be great for the product and for supporters. Reality is it will be as many have said; two leagues, six and eight teams with Mickey Mouse cup competitions to fill blank race nights. It’s not going be 1 League though.How many years have fans been thinking “it has to be 1League next season” .Self interest rules.Less fans attending every season.IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted October 17, 2023 When I go to watch at my home track at scunthorpe always watch as a neutral. I like to see them win but couldn't careless as long as I'm entertained the result doesn't matter 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloom89 496 Posted October 17, 2023 Always wondered why should the championship continue to be the fall guys for the complete lack of ability the top league has in running its own show. It’s always been a strong league teams used to have 2/3 big hitters, why should this league be watered down because the top league peed the sky money on the gp stars of years gone by. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/11/2023 at 5:49 PM, Toady said: Spot on, I’ve been saying the same for ages just enjoy and support what you’ve got while you can as it could be gone in a flash It’s a very defeatist attitude and probably contributes to promotion these days rarely being any more than “if you don’t come we might close.” Which is lazy and emotional blackmail. The sport should constantly be trying to improve and as fans we shouldn’t be accepting of any old dross just because we should be lucky to have speedway at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proud panther 1,505 Posted October 17, 2023 There has to be a rising star in the Championship sides this season, possibly 2 in my opinion. Can see a lot of young riders having nowhere to progress, & end up on the scrapheap if not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MillenTheVillen 27 Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/15/2023 at 10:44 PM, Noelinho said: We really need some quality second half racing for those guys. But the question will be, who pays for it? So I don't see it happening. This is the kind of thing TV money should really be used for. Developing the product. No one should be paying for it and that's been a problem for years, once they reach NDL age (15) and someone pays them they start riding once every 2 to 3 weeks depending on the fixtures because in their eyes why should they practice if no one's paying them for it? There's plenty tracks doings Amatuer Meetings and on the look out for riders at all engine sizes for Competive 2nd half but most won't travel because they have to pay their own way. If they're good enough Clubs will pick them up regardless (let's be honest the parents foot the Bill to bring the Kids up to the age of 16 with Club's not really having any input then take all the credit for everything) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,046 Posted October 17, 2023 2 hours ago, proud panther said: There has to be a rising star in the Championship sides this season, possibly 2 in my opinion. Can see a lot of young riders having nowhere to progress, & end up on the scrapheap if not. I just hope it's a sensible ruling, i.e a 4* & 2* rider or 2 x 3* riders, not a ruling that means riders on 2.01 aves get dropped for a new 2.00 rider! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MillenTheVillen 27 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: I just hope it's a sensible ruling, i.e a 4* & 2* rider or 2 x 3* riders, not a ruling that means riders on 2.01 aves get dropped for a new 2.00 rider! Number 7s should be protected all Season (if that's 2 point riders so be it but they should be protected fully) and no averages given and at No 7 all season, Number 6s should also be British U24s only under 4 points. If at the end of year 1 (or 2 or 3 or year 4) your Number 7 has achieved a 4+ point average (on paper) they have to move to number 6 berth or main body and a new no 7 comes in. (If for any reason a British U24 rider is struggling in main body and drops under 4 points they can go back to Number 6) These numbers could be tweaked but they have to be British u24s and protected. Let's be honest if you've got a reserve taking 6 or 7 rides and beating 1-5s regularly should they actually be at reserve and protected longterm, no they shouldn't and neither should ex Gp stars riding at Reserve! Edited October 17, 2023 by MillenTheVillen Add more content Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,046 Posted October 17, 2023 2 hours ago, MillenTheVillen said: Number 7s should be protected all Season (if that's 2 point riders so be it but they should be protected fully) and no averages given and at No 7 all season, Number 6s should also be British U24s only under 4 points. If at the end of year 1 (or 2 or 3 or year 4) your Number 7 has achieved a 4+ point average (on paper) they have to move to number 6 berth or main body and a new no 7 comes in. (If for any reason a British U24 rider is struggling in main body and drops under 4 points they can go back to Number 6) These numbers could be tweaked but they have to be British u24s and protected. Let's be honest if you've got a reserve taking 6 or 7 rides and beating 1-5s regularly should they actually be at reserve and protected longterm, no they shouldn't and neither should ex Gp stars riding at Reserve! Wouldn't complain with that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
