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Treating a speedway fan not as a speedway fan but as a valued paying customer. The difference is that with the former you can get away with a sub standard product, with the latter you can't. With the massive amount of competition in the leisure industry and the difficulty of attracting and retaining support it has to be the case that a paying customer is looked upon as the life blood that he actually is, not a mug to be taken for granted. We are not in the 1950's or 1970's any more. We have all been there. Rubbish tracks prepared without care or for the wants of riders. Filthy, uncared for facilities. Overpriced, dreadful food and a bar on taking your own in. Appalling customer care - aggressive, contemptuous and even abusive responses to legitimate criticism or questions from promoters, team managers and club press officers. Shambolic organisation, leading to ridiculous delays. A total lack of imagination regarding the entire meeting, because its not just about speedway. I believe all of that can be addressed at little cost - in fact I know it can, because Isle of Wight have done it.

The shocking news would have been if Panthers were not running. If you read what he's been brought in for then it makes perfect sense tbh. Rathbone still calls the shots and I'm sure that Neil will do a good job away from Supremo Horton. Given that Rathbone will be treading on eggshells with our lords and masters during 2018 I'd say that bringing in someone who seems to understand the rules and other issues as much as Neil is a smart move? Rathbone will no doubt listen to Neil and take his advice on board. I don't get the impression that that was one of Horton's strengths. Apologies for a positive post, I'll go and lie down for a bit!

1. Marketing/Hype. - No marketing of the Sport nationally yet millions paid out to riders who patently didn't maintain the crowds interest or numbers. Look what Barry Hearn has done with darts? Look at how the PDC is marketed v the 'other' organisation the BDO? Its the same game! But that is where the similarity ends. Hearn marketed the Sport, and the players incrementally earned more as the Sport grew organically. He didnt pay out huge money before he had it coming in! In 1993 the Winner of the World Title earned £64k. This time he will get £440k.. One is loud, brash, colourful and very, very succesful. The other tries to match it (badly) and tries to be all things to all men from grass roots to World Champions.. British Speedway is the BDO to Poland's PDC, stuck in a time warp of a by-gone era which has no linkage to today's society.. 2. Attendances - Not spotting that an ever growing older demographic was your only dwindling customer base. (Just like Woolworths, and we know how that went). And even if they did spot it, doing absolutely nothing nationally as a colllective about it (see point one)... 3. Credibilty. - planning fixtures to suit riders needs rather than the requirements of the fans. Resulting in disjointed schedules, and a plethora of 'Mickey Mouse' meetings, full of guests, which render the whole competition a waste of time and loses any emotional involvement a fan should have following 'their team'. And if a competition is a 'waste of time with no credibilty', simply "why go to watch it?" 4. Admission Costs. - Maybe due to costs they cannot be lower? But quite simply, you will not attract a regular crowd every week/fortnight/tri-weekly/every fourth Wednesday if the dogs isn't on and we can get Greg over (delete as applicable). There has to be a way of reducing entrance fees. We who are left are used to paying inflation busting admission fees, now circa £18, but any newbies (which the Sport so desperately needs) will be very reluctant to dip their toe in the Speedway water at those prices. Remember, most won't have a clue about the Sport other than via TV or YouTube. Forking out £50 or so for a family not knowing beforehand if they will enjoy it or not is a big ask I would suggest. And one not too many will take.. 5. Integrity - Far too many rules and regulations mean the more switched on will invariably find loopholes to gain an advantage. All this does is frustrate fans of other clubs who either follow the rules honestly (or maybe are not savvy enough to do the same?). Assessed averages based on performances from previous years? He can ride in that division on an 8.00 average/But Him on a 6.50 cannot? He is Swedish, but blonde, but also left handed, so is a 5.00 not a 6.00? etc etc just paints the Sport as an insular nonsense. Self policing is often no policing and as long as those who make decisions have a vested interest in that particular decision, there will always be suspicions of things being contrived and manipulated. Not a great way to encourage fans to 'buy in' to your Sport with emotion (and cash).. 6. It's Not Just The Speedway - As years go by and times change, people want more from a night out. Except in Speedway where the policy seems to be 'if it was good enough for Great Uncle Jack, it's good enough for them today'! Many it appears, simply opens the gates and expect thousands to flock in. It's the same tired old routine at so many tracks with absolutely zero extra to enhance the evenings experience. People want more bang for their buck these days! Speedway's well meaning amateurs unfortunately are not equipped with the relevant skill set to deliver it.. In Summary TMC. For me there are far too many self inflicted wounds compounded by a complete lack of vision and adaptability over the years to turn the Sport around. It is crying out for modern thinking, dynamic and clear leadership from someone who understands marketing and customer needs and wants. Always struck me as odd that as 'Rome has burned around them' the 'Nero's' who have run the Sport have paid over the past 20 years literally tens and tens of millions out to riders, who by their presence havent even maintained crowd levels never mind increased them, yet haven't paid a penny to any professional marketing company who maybe could have hyped the Sport enough to get it on the wider community radar... An incredible business plan..

Jack Holder showed contempt towards the Championship and its fans in his actions to ride in Poland. Its just a shame that any club has chosen to give him a contract in British speedway in 2018

Not obsessed just getting fed up like many on here.

There are many reason like admission is too expensive, a collection of stupid rules like doubling up but for me the 2 biggest factors are ,1 we don’t know what we are anymore , speedway has always been a working mans sport a bit like stockcars but it’s trying to be a poor mans F1 and we are stuck somewhere in the middle and don’t know who our fans are anymore .2 there has always been a bond between the fans and riders and for whatever reason it has been eroded away to the point now that it barely exsist , have a read of the Preben Erickson bit in the speedway star this week , it hits the nail on the head , the sport has become a individual rider sport that is focussed and directed at the riders and the fans seem like an after thought but are expected to pay for the privilege ,

I can only see this as a matter of money and absolutely nothing to do with the league set up. Indeed, if he was perfectly happy about not riding here he wouldn't have posted on facebook in the way that he has - he's trying to drum up interest from fans, sponsors etc to get them to back his case. While I am saddened to see a brilliant young rider - more so because he is British - not riding in our leagues, better that than give in to unreasonable demands. In this case, for me, British speedway promoters deserve a lot of credit.

Ultimately Ford wont have a choice if Holder wants to go

We have had a satisfactory outcome to our complaint , we have been offered 2 free tickets for next year Torun GP from Torun and pit passes from BSI

Conpletely agree with all of this

Tony Mole said the most important aspect of his final interview as a promoter ( in the SS ) , right at the start, that he was giving up because he felt that he had " run out of ideas to get the general public interested ". And there lies the truth of the matter. No-one can do that. Certainly if TM can't it's impossible. It does not matter how much re-organisation or rule tweaking the BSPA undertake if they collectively ( and individual promoters themselves ) cannot get people into the stadium. Getting the general public in to sample the "show" and see how good on track racing excitement can be, is the only way forward if Speedway GB is ever to see a revival. Thanks and farewell Tony. We now need A Real Showman ( oops Showperson ) to make people see speedway as a fun night out, worth spending their money on. Every track should seriously consider putting on a Open Doors Free Entry meeting early in the season AND market it hard so that their stadium is 100% full for that meeting. The "Wow This is Speedway Racing" meeting should be very crisply presented so that the time ( and interest in it ) does not drag! Every person should be given a free race card with some basic newbie info on "what you are seeing" tonight. The track should be prepared as well as possible as a fair racing track ( not for the best home team advantage ) and the riders should be meeting with fans before and after the meeting for autographs ( Hug your Hero selfies time etc ). And the riders should be told and understand that this is a speedway show - designed to impress and catch new fans. I know, I can hear the shouts of " do you know has much that would cost?" BUT it is money well spent on advertising and almost guaranteed to being thousands though the gate to see the on track spectacle ( hopefully presented at it's best ) IF you should it loud in the couple of weeks before the date. Every spectator should be given a Feedback Card re "what did you like best and what if anything did you not like" etc ) . The promotion needs to read and listen to the valuable feedback offered ( especially by newbies ) " Will you be coming again?". Unless the general public do see speedway RACING at it's best then there is no hope of them bothering to return. Especially if they cannot see it on TV where they must see a stadium full of fans really into the racing and having a VFM good night out.

That is downright offensive. Perhaps if instead of your ignorant ageism we have someone post some equally obnoxious homophobia and see how you like it. Comments like that destroy any respect for the rest of your occasionally intelligent comments. Just because you post in detail and some are taken in by it all doesn't mean you're in the right. I've worked damn hard for speedway in my time and it would be good to think that I could still go to speedway without facing obnoxious comments from yourself about people in my age group. Anyway, hopefully I'll be dead soon, eh? Uteerly disgusting. We should cater for all not just overgrown children like you.

The precedent was shown in the Miedzinski deal where he was wanted by his parent club but Poole signed him on loan when Swindon wanted a transfer. If anything different happens then Chris is getting stitched up.

Are you his brother Wayne?

The whole 1-7 now live within an hour of the track I think. Average age of 19.Exactly what the league is about.

Does Lambert think he’s Woffinden in disguise?

The answer is to promote it as an 'extreme' sport. All kinds of usually American manufactured sport are skilfully sold under that banner. It's all sensation and image based. Speedway needs expert selling. Many years ago I was invited by the BSPA to discuss a proposal I had made that they set up their own in-house marketing and TV production business so they could control the 'message' and maintain control over TV revenues and the spin-off sponsorship. I was naive of course. They heard me but admitted that they didn't have the expertise to do it themselves. Tellingly they didn't have the vision to realise that it might be an idea to hire those who did have that expertise. The sport needs stable management, clear, intelligent policy, a vision of where it's going and to find people who can sell it for them. I actually feel sorry for the BSPA at times. They come across as reasonably successful small to medium businessmen who care about the sport but when it comes to TV, sponsorship and general marketing they're way out of their depth. Reverting to the 'extreme' aspect I have taken occasional looks at what gets lumped into this 'product' and to be honest speedway is far more interesting than most. It is a triumph ofd style over substance. Sadly we need a little of that American hucksterism. All we seem to get are expensive attempts at American style with only a vague connection without selling turning that image into revenue. The flashy trappings and irrelevant costs would look good, if anyone was looking. Do we want a sport fuelled by hype? Well, that's what got it started and thriving. Hype's moved on from our old showmen though and the sport's been left behind.

The problem is that most bees fans don't see the move to Leicester as something that will help to secure the clubs future. The general feeling is that it will hamper the efforts of a more sincere group of people who really do want to get the club up and running with a proper future.Horton is taking the club there for his own reasons, and I suspect large financial support from a company who believe their interests would be better served if the speedway club were " out of the way."

I certainly dont always agree with Neils views but 100% respect his knowledge and the fact he is prepared to explain many situations on the forum. I think he does very well to remain civil in the face of what can be a barrage of negativity.

That's not true, but I sense that you would never let facts get in the way of your snide, anonymous posts. The only Club I've ever been involved in that has ceased racing is Coventry in 2017, which was purely down to stadium availability.

Troll alert ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To me there is just one key factor. In the minds of far too many people speedway is no longer viewed as being worth spending £15-20 per person on. Whether that is a false or genuine perception is irrelevant. It's basic economics that the price is a product of supply and demand. The supply side is still reasonable but demand has plummetted. Abysmal marketing, a shoddy attitude to customers, a focus on rider needs rather than customer, rules based on constant compromise, usually to paper over loopholes, failure to control unnecessary costs, pitifully poor racing in several cases, constant rider absence are all details. Speedway has to be or either be seen to be value for money.

All of the ideas mentioned here have been tried, they might have had some success at some clubs but in the main they made no difference. Despite people constantly criticising promoters on various threads, most are successful business people and many have invested a great deal of money in the sport. If you only had the clubs that break even from gate receipts, you'd be down to a handful, that might sound like rock bottom but it would be sounder than the current "are we running next year or not?" situation that seems to blight so many clubs. It's now apparent that fixed race nights haven't really attracted the big names, because they were being paid for by the TV rights and they look to have gone. I think that instead of having big ideas about big names, we should concentrate on having a set-up that is financially viable, if that means part-time riders and meetings clustered around weekends, so be it, at least we wouldn't have the uncertainty.

Have you Bees supporters listened to The TALK SPEEDWAY PODCAST on Twitter where Save Coventry Speedway campaigner Jeff Davies is interviewed for 42 minutes .. Without taking sides this is an absolute brilliant , enlightening & passionate interview .

Not for the first time you are 100% wrong.

Its interesting to read your - very reasonable - comments here. I have mentioned Isle of Wight here (and many times before). They have a policy of allowing Islander newbies in for one meeting (that includes their family) for free by taking their names and putting them on the gate. At the end of the match, they are asked to give feedback to the promotion. No cards are given out, but announcer Rob Dyer does give a brief but informative outline of the sport before the racing starts. The racing is decent. There are autograph sessions before every meeting, and riders are usually in the bar afterwards. One member of the promotion tours the crowd during the meeting, and does so every week. Last season, I saw away fans invited on to the centre green. That is part of the reason why Isle of Wight speedway is, in my view, a blueprint or at least an example as to how speedway tracks should operate. The cost of all that ? Pretty much nothing. If a fan isn't going anyway and you let him in free, you haven't lost a penny. Feedback, centre green and pits visits are just a matter of a little time and effort.

Hearing rumours today that we've signed Chris Holder, Robert Lambert, Charles Wright and Bradley Wilson-Dean.... remains to be seen how true that is!

As I said on another thread, the likes of Bartosz Zmarzlik, Maceij Janowski, Patryk Dudek, and the Pawlicki brothers were cuttung their teeth at the deep end from age 16 in Poland. The result is that Poland won the SWC with effectively an u23 team. Not to mention the success of their u21 team in their own event. I dare say that if the Poles put out an u19 or even an u17 team they would wipe the floor with all comers in those age groups too. That's what British riders need to emulate. Being up there with the best in the world, not the toddlers who get races stopped after half a lap because they can't stay on their bikes. It's no good wrapping them up in cotton wool and making them nice and comfortable in the kindergarten league. These young men need to mature improve and develop in a competitive environment that challenges them and improves them...all the way to the top.

And there's the problem. The horse designed by committee scenario. The resulting camel that's designed to be most things to most people and ending up being useless to all.

Not even santa is that much of a miracle worker.

In a couple of threads I suggested that an easy way to produce assessed averages would be to I could do it in a couple of hours using data already in existence I'd use dolgin's rankings, starting by doing linear regression on all those riders who have 2017 British averages. That would give a formula that would provide an average for every rider. ( I would reduce the average of Americans by 10% because I think dolgin's methodology over-rates them). And finally I would round to the nearest half point). And I would use a 1.25 multiplier to go from PL to CL. I have now done it (and it took less than two hours) I used Dolgin's rankings at 30 September (topped by Tai Woffinden on 4701 ranking points and end of season PL GSA averages for all riders (61) with a PL GSA achieved in 2017 over 3.00. The regression formula came out as: Formula: Assessed Average = (ranking points – 1118) --------------------------------- 347.3 Here's the scatter graph: And the list of assessed riders (note it includes anyone without a PL or CL GSA achieved in 2017 (so it includes riders like Stefan Nielsen, Tobias Busch and Davey Watt) And a list of assessments: 10.5 Woffinden 10 Zmarzlik 9.5 Zagar Dudek Hancock 9 Laguta Laguta Pawlicki Pawlicki Sayfutdinov Vaculik Pedersen 8.5 Janowski Kolodziej hampel Iversen Milik Wozniak Jonsson 8 Lindback Drabik Kildemand Sundstrom Lebedevs Holta 7.5 Jepsen Jensen Miedzinski Protasiewicz Michelsen Ljung Woryna Bech Zengota 7 Smektala Okoniewski Thomsen Crump Jamrog Smolinski Mat Szczepaniak Mroczka Korneliussen 6.5 Janniro Jedrzejak K Gomolski Fajfer Wolbert Bogdanovs Karpov Buczkowski Przedpelski 6.5 Ulamek Czaja D Davidsson Kosciuch P Aspgren Pieszczek F Jakobsen Bach 6 Walasek Kudryashov J Davidsson Pavlic Lampart B Pedersen Jablonski Krcmar Jeleniewski 6 Covatti Puodzuks KK Hansen Lyager P Karlsson 5.5 M Ruml Franc M Nowak Berntzon Berge Gizatulin Gala Kroner Gafurov 5.5 D Balinski Miskowiak Kubera Kulakov Miesiac Tarasenko 5 Watt K Jablonski Brzozowski Karczmarz Kus Koza C Vissing J Andersson Eklof 5 Polis Palovaara Cyfer R Jensen Bober Hjelmland Borodulin 4.5 Fisher J Jorgensen Mazur Hartel Busk Jakobsen M B Andersen K Andersen Kostigovs Jeppesen 4.5 J Kling Dolny Busch Chugunov Thornblom Stachyra Ajtner Gollob A Gomolski Nissen 4.5 Adamczewski Borowicz Drodz T Sorensen Jedrzewski Skornicki Monberg Kaczmarek 4.5 Risager Tabaka Stichauer Kuciapa K Lykke 4 Lindman Melnichuk Grobauer Mads Hansen Z Holub St Nielsen S Burza Michalovs L Sowka 4 Fox Becker Manzares B Bast Nicol Novratil Thaysen Alden M Tresarrieu 4 Chmiel Castagna Melgren Sogaard Gruchalski Chalov Fierlej R Kling P Hansen 4 Adamczak Logachev F Eriksson Fienhage Tornqvist V Bergstrom Mag Karlsson suchanek Puszakowski 4 Dilger

One thing I'd add to SCB's excellent post is team identity's need to be reestablished. For example team building rules that encourage tracks to retain more of the previous season's riders would be a start.

I was going to respond myself. But it would be superfluous after reading SCBs post. I do not think I have seen a better critique. Brilliant.

I'm sure they have their plans in place whatever happens.

Guess it depends on the 2 rider combinations with Troy or KK but I would rather have Troy who is a little bit more consistent than KK.

Yes leander The Defunct thread is now well and truly Defunct. Looking forward now to season 2019 which will be Brough Park's 90th anniversary. Not sure, but we could be the only club still operating at the same venue, that started in 1929

One of the biggest clubs in the country, not been on track in a competitive fixture for over a year, given a lifeline to return. You would think this thread would have hundreds of posts by now. The fact that it doesn't speaks volumes. I for one am not interested in doing what Cradley have done. Track share after track share and the accompanying uncertainties over whether we run the following year. Season after season in the lowest league watching has-beens and never-wills with the odd genuine rising star thrown in for good measure (who, of course, will not stick around very long). For me, this is not a Coventry team, and I have no interest at all in supporting it. We have no affinity with this league, other than a poorly supported Storm team which was very much a supplement to the main Bees team. To drop to NL racing at Brandon would have been a huge ask. To do so at another track... No thanks. I'd rather have no club at all than a pretend club. I suspect I'm not alone.

The most depressing thing about comparing UK speedway with all these other 'minor' sports is that we have no chance of ever attracting a rich benefactor in the mould of Kerry Packer or Barry Hearn, etc. Speedway's 'Sugar Daddy' for the past 20 years was Tony Mole, and to a lesser extent Terry Russell, and they have both effectively thrown in the towel. Matt Ford is still hanging in there but for how long....?

Classic troll - post the same thing on multiple threads. Now go away!

Don’t listen to the troll

Actually, I think he might be one of the best signings Peterborough make. I don't know the guy, but highly impressed with factual explanations on here and knowledgeable rule explanations. Wish him well, and he will be a good right hand man to Ged even if it's just to remind him of the rules.

To busy digging the garden decorating the bedroom tiling the bathroom. Changing tyres on the car

I think the amount of comments regarding this about sums it up. Mick Horton will not get a penny more out of my pocket, the man is a walking disaster and we will vote with our feet. I miss speedway, I miss Brandon but I have certain morals in life that when you are being taken for a complete idiot then I'm out. Why Mick Horton and Neil Watson actually think this is going to work is a little strange if the answer is that simple then please shed some light? It is clear as day the fans don't want this ! How is it financially viable and what is the minimum attendance to make it break even? It's on par with putting Donald Trump in charge of us, not a grip on reality and its not going to end well. Maybe its more on par with Blackadder and who has a cunning plan ?

I sincerely hope not ! Can't stand the self opinionated little P%$*# !!!

I hate to criticise the NL Promoters who have done so much to keep the sport alive for many or us but I think this is a disaster. When the final teams are declared there will be a load of promising riders without any ride at all. If they were going to do this they might have at least have stipulated no doubling up. As it is we already have Hulme and Morley in two leagues and probably Ayres, Smith and JPB. In will come a dozen 3.0 pointers many of whom are not yet ready. Five have been signed already. With one less team it is double disaster and should mean about 15 to 20 riders left out including the likes of Bacon and Bowtell. This could have been covered to some extent by no double up and an age limit for this league. You cannot take this sort of action without excluding the likes of Atkin, Armstrong,Bowen Hurry, Boxall and Roynan.

Thanks for the update I've put that into into the grey matter and it doesn't make sense to me To my mind the original rules give everybody an equal chance , well certainly at the start of the season . This for me will make the racing duller , some teams used to be top heavy but this created variety .. If membership of the board was performance related then they should resign and get some young blood into the equation. British Speedway is on a downward spiral which is only sustained by us oldies who remember the good times .

For years the shock was Glasgow winning at home Now they have a team to be proud of, though they were probably proud of every team they had even in the dark old years.

Rather confused by the headline and how a darts story can relate to "Auntie Beeb has remembered what Speedway was, once" (sic). What exactly does that phrase mean? Moving into the real world, darts has been successfully hyped for many years by professional businesses which specialise in such work, because darts went out and found someone to do this. Speedway has not. If the poster is trying to knock the BBC perhaps he should pay attention to what BBC WM are doing right on his doorstep? You have to sell the sport to broadcasters as much as the rest of the media. Instead speedway views the press as freeloaders who are likely to stop people paying to watch the sport. It's remarkable how much coverage speedway actually gets, usually down to the personal enthusiasm of a local editor. You can't just sit back and expect to be given coverage such as that darts piece. You have to at least meet these people half way. Most press and publicity in speedway is undertaken by willing amateurs. I know, I was one. You get what you pay for. Don't blame the media if they're not interested in what is offered to them, if any is.....

Speedway is so short term. In fact, the only thing you can be sure of... the fans stand in the same place every week... until they vanish.

Apparently every new foreign rider will be assessed on a case by case basis. So that's why Joel has the average given. Now if that's not open to corruption I don't know what is.. Anyway. Good luck to both Edinburgh and Joel.