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Well I called it earlier on that I thought we might sneak a point, and with Doyle and Holder continueing their fine form from Poland yesterday it's a pity we didn't get any more. Belle Vue no doubt weakened by having no Worrall but it's unlikely Charles Wright will have another stinker of a night again considering the form he's been in this season. A good well earned point it seems.

Because they have imported many of the factors crippling the top tier: chaotic fixture lists, excessive guests and costs. It's also been busy supplying tracks to prop up the higher tier and as a result has become predominantly a shrunken east coast league with large tracts of the country remote from its members. The guest problem is hopefully being addressed this year but the clash between Swindon's fixtures and those of the Thursday CL tracks has already arisen. The road ahead is not to create a league based on today's CL but one based on, for argument's sake the original British League where the few surviving National League (D1) teams finally realised they had to work on the Provincial League's (D2) terms to build one strong, healthy league with a robust, varied fixture list and teams that the sport could afford, the latter achieved through rider control, later points limits. An amalgamation would not be an instant remedy but it would be a significant step forward in providing realistic fixture lists and hopefully teams where guests are a rarity. As ever, it's a little more complex than saying "Well, if the second tier's so good then why aren't they getting better crowds?". Evils that cripple the top tier affect all levels of our sport. Continuity and team stability are key to getting the faith back of the disappearing supporters, but most crucially we must re-create a sport with credible governance, where riders don't treat it as easily avoidable paid practice for more important pay days elsewhere, and give a sense of value for money and leave people wanting more. Sadly today we seem to be dependent on those who don't really care for the sport, just the glory of their team winning. That may work in football but not ion a minority sport like ours.

Pre 1990 it was only the communist isolation of Poland and the consequent lack of hard currency there that held them back in terms of world speedway, and I'm not necessarily talking about the riders and their equipment. Under the planned economy sport was tightly regulated and highly subsidised. In a society where consumer goods were partly-restricted or extremely expensive sport was a cheap way to enjoy life. Speedway in Poland, raced in stadia usually built with public money, attracted huge crowds even back then and once the old system fell and Poland could trade in hard currency the floodgates opened to hiring foreign talent to entertain their huge crowds. The explosion of conversion to a western consumer society saw a wave of controversially-regulated opportunism in business and sport now saw the benefits of sponsorship and large TV audiences to back up the crowds in the stadia. With that momentum it's no surprise that Polish Speedway now dominates and that with all of their money on offer they wanted to expand from just one day a week racing to a full weekend. Sadly, weakened by the BSI calendar robbing us of Saturdays and many Fridays it's Britain that's had to give way. We used to be the honey pot for riders, now it's Poland and we're left with the wreckage. There are many reasons for the success of Polish Speedway and the failure of the British version and it is far wider than us having bad promoters and them having great ones. Despite the wealth over there there has been a disgusting trail of unpaid debts caused by insanely false promises. You could understand British promoters struggling to pay their commitments but not a Polish equivalent with 10,000+ crowds! We cannot compete with Poland and it's not all about BSPA incompetence. Wouldn't it be great if we had local government, sponsors and thousands of customers paying for great stadia? Apart from the case of Belle Vue we don't and have to get by with what we have. If we can't compete we must isolate and rebuild under our own terms. We must not have our best tracks racing on the worst nights.

Poland appears to get decent crowds on a Sunday afternoon and they are really enthusiastic too. I like how they put the 2 minute timer on when the bikes leave the pits and the gates go up 2 minutes later, getting to the starting gate and any gardening, clutch adjusting or goggle adjusting all takes place within this 2 minutes. How is it that Polish supporters can show so much enthusiasm for their sport when the Btitish looks like they are the congregation at a funeral. This showing of Polish speedway on TV just highlights how pathetic the sport is in this country. Very sad I find it. I remember many happy days at Norwich Speedway at the Firs, before they sadly closed, when the riders did a lap of honour when the crowds could wave and cheer their riders and the chanting of the supporters before a race cheering the riders on all added to the atmosphere. We would meet the riders at the pit gates as they arrived at the track as they parked their vans and trailers , unloading their bikes to push them to the pits. They were ready to stop for a chat and sign autographs. A great family atmosphere. In those days our regular night was Saturday with the occasional Wednesday night but the Saturday crowds were always the best attended of the two.

The custodians of our sport are taking it to the brink of extinction. No other nation gives a fig about British Speedway, most promoters don’t give a fig about the supporters and if you read through the various threads a lot of the diehards (those in their 50’s and 60’s) are giving up. The armchair follower is now voting by not turning up to live meetings. TV cannot be blamed, if it is why do the Poles still have large contingents of very vocal support when a meeting is televised. It is primarily down to lack of weekly racing, early call offs and fans short changed with a mediocre product. The powers that be have in one swoop brought speedway to its knees with the last BSPA conference and it is baffling how these so called business people can be so blind as to not see what they are doing. Have they got more money than sense. Get back to basics and start again putting British racing first and if they want to compete again on the international front have test matches in this country but give the sport back to its fans.

Buxton have done a lot for British Speedway, I take my hat of to them.

Just bought my Speedway Star (two in consecutive weeks!) and enjoyed the articles on Ivan...especially Alan Wilkinson's tribute.

Arrived at track. Sunshine speedway it is tonight. Beautiful today

Same at Somerset Trees - albeit a different team from last year, Doyle and Wilson-Dean have returned having ridden for us before so the only newbies are Jepperson and Holder... and then Holder signed for us a few years back before being dropped because of an average cock up. It's one of those myths where if people keep saying it enough, people start believing it!

I forgot Starman needs the full explanation!

The proven points scorer ForeverBlue was referring to, would be Hans Andersen who was ousted to fit Sundstrom in.

Really not surprised by this after talking to him Thursday night. Fingers crossed he can return at some point. Good luck in the quest for a replacement, and well done on your win at home.

Away from home a guest can only be up to the missing rider’s average. For a home meeting a guest can have an average up to the missing rider’s + 5%.

Yes i have dont read the posr properly. Still nothing new is it

hey we could get the runners up spot with 13 we won at scunny last year and as long as scunny don't move the meeting to a Thursday ... we are nailed on to win .... we have a 100% record on days that dont start with a T

I was totally against what occurred with money passing hands for the services of Jack Holder never agree with anything like that but regardless if I found it acceptable or not , I am entitled to make comments or remarks without the likes of people like you to ridicule it just because I support Panthers and happen to live in the Peterborough area

MikeBV, As a seasoned diehard speedway nut I too have very often spent hours delving into the reasons, this sport of our, has descended into the state it is. It was refreshing to read your post out-lining the numerous problems thus showing that I am not the only one who thinks along them same lines. For many years I have thought it was ludicrous that we should try and compete with them Poles . We have neither the power or popularity needed to do that, yet we continue to try.... Rider and machines have become too expensive for Promoters to arrange race meetings witnessed by a mere 1000 die-hard fans. This is a recipe for disaster, a sure-fire financial suicidal exercise that has all but killed the sport. The main reasons our sport cant attract new fans are Cost; VFM and Organisation. Expecting fans to pay £18 for 15 mins racing of riders, most of whom aren't top level, is way over the top. ( that's twice as much as the Polish charge to see top quality riders), Joe Public wouldn't tell the difference between Jason Doyle or Joe Bloggs so it ridiculous charging those expensive rates. VFM is just as important but again little importance is put toward the evening entertainment. It seems we are expected to pay to come in and then they forget about you.. Organisation is a joke, Sometimes we race on a Monday, next it might be Wednesday, before this year, it could have been any day. Sometime we race every week sometimes it only once a month. IT has been known to have 3 meetings in a week, sometimes 2 meeting on the same day.,. You cant imagine what a distraction that is. That wouldn't attract customers in a million years, but that is not important to them. Sometimes I think the BSPA haven't got a clue.. The only section to benefit from the way our sport is run is the riders.... and all they do is hold their hand out... Like you both say, the only salvation I can see is to separate ourselves from the other countries and run our own sport at a cost that the fans can afford on the days it best suited to gain maximum exposure..... We cannot afford to compete with the likes of Poland and Sweden anymore....

Hawk127 has hit the nail squarely on the head in the above post " All very sad and no doubt many more will get out of the habit of going" I know I have already. From being a regular at Rye I stopped going each and every week in about 2008/9 and just started picking and choosing my meetings. Moved to the East Midlands in 2012 and not been to a meeting since coming up here and now get my fix via television, internet, youtube and dvd. Sad I know and Im sure many on here will say im not a true supporter BUT watching it this way I dont have to drive for xxx amount of miles each way, stand around in a clapped out stadium and go home £30 or £40 lighter in the pocket and moan about the meeting or lack of meeting at the end of the day. Plus the best bit of watching speedway my way is that if its crap there is always the off switch or something on another channel. High speed bikes with lay down engines and slick tracks I think killed it for me its all open throttle and hang on today ........ what happened to throttle control and riders natural skill and ability? I think whats even sadder is that im 61 this year and I just cannot see myself attending another live meeting

Don't think there is any doubt... Friday, Saturday, Sunday are the best days to attract a crowd if you run a Sport, or are in the Entertainment and Leisure industry, (Speedway you would say ticks both boxes).. No surprise therefore that Poland run on these nights and at the meeting to agree each Countries race nights they didn't suggest Britain takes their days' over and that they would run Monday/Thursday (or even Wednesday as it transpired)... If Mondays were such a great night to attract a Speedway crowd you would have to think the Poles would have ensured they took it... British Speedway simply cannot compete with Poland so shouldnt even give it a consideration and plough it's own furrow.. Run at the weekend with lads who are happy earning a 'normal' job's weekly wage for four or five races a night.. Run with lads who reside over here to keep hotel and air fare costs out of the equation and, if needs be, run with five or six man teams to shave even more off the expenditure.. And run consistently, either once a week, or once a fortnight if all the League runs on the same night... Do that and maybe admission fees could gradually come down to attract even more numbers through the gate to add to what 'Weekend Speedway' would bring. It would be a lot easier to sell the sport media wise, and market it nationally collectively, (rather than individually) too, having a full fixture list over say three days, rather than the fragmented way it is currently ran..

I think the decline/rot has already set in and the weather is just what it has always been, dire. I am sure they are justified, but call offs are all too frequent when even there is a hint that the weather looks dodgy. Go back a few years and they would do anything to try and get a meeting on and go back many years they used sawdust. The lack of speedway on nights (mainly thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday) when fans want to watch and with weekends when you have the best chance of good crowds, is something I find ludicrous. The decline is evident on this forum. The lack of feedback to those meetings that are on and in some cases nothing at all or perhaps one comment says it all. I agree with Rob re the state of things and I think it could well be the end of the road for a number of clubs come September. All very sad and no doubt many more will get out of the habit of going. One big league with home and away, ko cup and British invidual championship and you probably would get back to regularly weekly meetings. This country can no longer compete with Poland, Sweden or Denmark and the other nations such as Germany will soon overtake the U.K. Back to basics might just save speedway in this country.

Last week James had to go now szczepaniak make you mind up ?

I understand that Poole wasn't objecting to the idea of Mondays and Thursdays, but once it was known that the 3 Championships sides wanted to keeps Thursday race nights, Poole went along with-it, knowing that it would enable them to retain their Wednesday race nights... ( as per BSPA philosophy, thinking only of themselves) Had it been agreed to run on Thurs,& Mondays Poole would have run as per charter... It bothers me not which days the sport is run, as long as it is done properly. If all speedway countries run to FIM Directives, then why cant we do the same??. How can 3 second division teams be given the opportunity to overrule FIM idea of country priority for the sake of their own being?? What makes a mockery of it all is that Swindon are allowed to run on a day different to everybody else... ( I understand the reasons why) It seems to me that those who wish, can do what they like, when they like. and then they ask why are fans fed up to their teeth with it all... Piss-Up and Brewery come to mind............

That has to be the easiest game of "Where's Wally?" ever known...... I take it the Echo are trying to put their readers off going to Wimborne Road. That reminds me, The Living Dead's on.......

Looking at the few meetings that have been on FreeSports TV this year I could not help but notice the enthusiasm that the Polish supporters have compared to British fans. How refreshing it is to see supporters actually enjoying themselves, cheering their team on and dressed in their colours. That just shows how dire British speedway is just now, it needs a big kick-up the backside and sooner rather than later. It would be interesting to see what admission price these supporters pay to watch their team allowing for cost of living, etc.

Catching up on the Polish matches recorded and the crowd/atmosphere is awesome (round 2 ZG versus G) and while the racing appears generally better than the UK it is the whole package so the odd average race does not stick out like sore thumb. Shows how it should be done from a presentation spectacle and the enthusiastic crowd is as good as any football derby in this country. Long may they show Polish speedway.

Everyone seems very eager to get a rider a seven day ban. No doubt the Aces management will enquire as to the validity of his inclusion tonight.

Oh really no idea why Josh G was considered a better option than Hans.

Great to see Richard Lawson back racing after his ahem ahem illness.

Vest on! If I'd known it was going to be arctic up there I'd have put 2 pair of socks on, me thermals, a jumper, a woolley hat and me tweed overcoat. Still think I'd have been cold! Perhaps that was part of Lasses problems yesterday, couldn't get his engines warmed up!

Hope you enjoy it, at least you got Ash Morris riding, and he's in fine form, 14+2 for Newcasle yesterday

How can you have an adult debate with somebody calling themselves Mr Blobby. Debate finished right there.

I was told the reason the Championship is only once home and away in the league is simply down to the voting power of those clubs who lose money each year opting to not lose quite as much as in previous seasons.

Pleased you enjoyed it as the dad of one of the Berwick lads can’t tell you how much he enjoys being part of the club and the support he’s given by those who stay behind.

None in Lynn yet either buy plenty of drying wind

Please contact www.buxtonhitmen.co for the details as I cannot provide my address on a public forum and you will receive a refund on your admission costs.

Agree. Hope to see Lewis back on a bike soon.. Happy with MPT as a replacement. Dilly Dilly ...

24 hours with no rain, and no rain expected.....

My point is that if he rides to or above his average then criticism is unfair but if he’s riding below that then it has to be taken on board,that however is the same for all of the riders

My view is the opposite. I am amazed any company sponsors British speedway. There cannot be any measurable return on investment, so you are relying completely on the benevolence of business owning fans.

Interesting links. So speedway is pretty much the same price in relation to earnings in Poland as UK. Mind you looking at the comparisons, so is pretty much everything else so guess it must be our superior speedway that makes the UK so attractive to the Polish :-)

For the West coast? Very

It took only half a heat at the Swindon v Leicester meeting, which did go ahead in dodgy conditions, for two very experienced and skillful riders to be injured in a fall, one of of which was a very bad injury. Coming out with that last statement shows a callous disregard for the health and wellbeing of young riders far less experienced and far less skillful than those who already came a cropper in similar circumstances.

there you go starman thats who you should have a go at not me ?

We were spoilt for choice back in the day Steve Then back in the 70s I lived in Wembley (just off the A40) and 70/71 I could walk to wembley stadium as a kid to see my beloved Lions and after they closed it was off to Wimbledon. For this I had to get a lift either from parents or friends BUT there was always some speedway supporter I knew around my area who went each week and had a spare seat in the car. When I was 18 I had passed my test and owned a car and the world was my oyster and I was spoilt for choice, Monday Reading. Wednesday White City, Thursday Wimbledon, Friday Hackney. The weekend was Swindon Saturday or maybe Canterbury, Sunday was maybe Eastbourne. Or maybe a weekend of it with Canterbury Saturday and onto Eastbourne Sunday sleeping in the car or a tent. Cannot say I done all the tracks every week but if I had enough for a tank of petrol entrance fee and a programme then I was off. Then while on the road you would get a toot and a wave from a passing speedway fan when they spotted your car adorned with various speedway stickers or sun visors (or the big action speedway rider a lot had in our back windows). Happy days never to return.

so much for the 'useless' team. Have a little faith

We are in a vicious downward spiral. Part of it comes from Poland, part from BSI and partly through domestic incompetence, some of it just bad luck. For many years life for me living in east London revolved around speedway, not through my commitments in the sport but as a fan. Friday night was speedway night at Hackney and Sunday was the day to see my beloved Rockets at Rye House. The idea of doing other things on Friday nights or Sunday afternoons was just inconceivable. Yes the close season was hell for me. Thankfully both of my 'local' tracks ran full seasons so the close season really was only four and a half months of relative hell. Of course that wasn't enough and the temptation of 'extras' at Reading, Wimbledon, White City and Canterbury, Crayford then later Arena Essex were always there. The core was Friday nights and Sunday afternoons. Now it's a mess. I live in the west country so my closest option for speedway at the weekend nearer than 100 miles away is Stoke. Still the scenery and pace of life is better than Upton Park.... I do have several tracks much closer to home, all running midweek and it seems whenever I'm able to go they're not running! Going back to running full seasons and on the nights that pay is not idle nostalgia, it's a vital necessity. It means running independently of international interests and ideally one large league with a supporting equivalent such as the present National League. One main league avoids doubling-up. Not using riders who have contracts in Poland will also cut out more absences. Instead of doubling-up a much larger league will give overall more bookings for riders than if they were in two British leagues thus removing the need. The key problem, apart from allowing for the fact that further 'names' will have to be lost is that I suspect that the sort seasons are favoured by promotions because they budget for a loss over the year, a budget that will only pay for about 14 meetings. The painfully-thin fixture lists in the CL this year with just 10 home league matches a year is a new low for the professional leagues. It's not those of us wishing to learn from the past who are the dreamers, it's those who think we can keep struggling on as we are blindly hoping that riders and fans will magically return. Whether the sport has the intelligence to make the necessary changes is doubtful though. It'll stagger on. How long can you stagger on your knees by the way? Mind you, for most here as long as their team's winning many who use the BSF won't care - until they find themselves facing a track closure.....

Any club that Laurence Rogers gets involved with will never run smoothly. The man is a bad apple and Birmingham Speedway should get rid off him before he drags them down.

The guests have been well chosen and one could argue make us a little stronger but that's not the point, people want to see a full team of their own riders.

Predicted 41-49 and happy to be proved wrong. How different it would have been with Ostergaard fit who knows. Great boost for Berwick though. Doolan was superb, looked very fast all night. Really need to do something about the 3-4 pairing, which looks vulnerable. Impressed with Ben Morley for Lakeside, better than I remembered at Shielfield. Always good to see Bomber riding round here, non-stop racer. And good to see Nick Morris back as well. On a totally separate note, there was some absolutely cracking races in the NJL match, a couple of good battles between Keiron Douglas and Josh Embleton, then Sam McGurk, Luke Harrison and Archie Freeman had three really great struggles, riding way beyond their years.

So new stadium is coming on nicely I see.. not.. the silence dips deafening