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Giving how it descended yesterday into a childish slanging match its hardly surprising.

Thanks for your response Gustix and glad you like the group. I'm actually happy for the images to be shared. What I meant as that I personally wouldn't be posting the photos to multiple speedway sites. I'm just happy that my late Dad's photos from Hampden Park in Glasgow are being seen for the first time. He would have liked that :-)

But there’s no evidence that the first caused the second.

From Speedway Researcher:

The reason there is no appetite for a re-boot is because all of the suggestions in this thread completely fly in the face of reality. Over the last ten years the standard of riders in the Elite League/Premiership has declined and this has coincided with a decline in spectator number. This is an indisputable fact. National League team charge a lower entry fee than Championship teams, which charge a lower entry fee than Premiership teams. Despite this on average Premiership teams get higher crowds than Championship teams who get higher crowds than National League teams. Therefore there is no evidence that lower entry fees encourages supporters. When Premiership clubs have run National League teams they have resulted in significantly lower attendances. Therefore there is no evidence that fans will support a weaker product, regardless of admission cost. All of the suggestions in this thread complete ignore the evidence that the last ten years of British speedway have laid out. If people wanted to see teams of mainly British riders and save a few quid on admission, then the National League would be thriving and every club in speedway would be running a team. It is not and they are not. It is easy to spitball a wish list for British speedway. The difference is that promoters have to actually deliver a product and cough up for cash if (when) clubs make a loss. Could the ideas above work? Maybe, but all the evidence suggests otherwise. Therefore, if you were a promoter, would you completely re-boot British speedway into a format which is almost certainly going to lose you more money than you are today?

A few people have suggested that it might be a good idea to set up my own dedicated speedway Facebook page to feature the 1000's of old photos from the 60's & 70's and share some of my video clips from 2006 onwards. I've found some programmes that we produced for Motors TV back in the day too so what do you think? Are there enough speedway groups already on there or do you think more speedway fans would enjoy a dedicated page just for these videos and photos? Thinking along the lines of 'Bennett's Speedway Stuff' but open to suggestions! :-) Let me know and if enough people are interested I'll set it up this week.

Brilliant issue...if only speedway was run as well as the SS the sport would be in a far better shape.

No figures to back that theory up, and I’ve read that comment before. I’ve been to both nights and whilst Cradley had great attendances they were no way ‘better’ crowds. Cradley in their own stadium would hands down top any attendance figure imho. Plenty of Cradley fans won’t go to Wolverhampton to support Cradley which just goes to show how dedicated their fans are if they were ever able to come back on their own. If all teams had fans like Cradley ones the sport would be in a healthy place. Although I’m baulking at the idea that any general speedway fan has the displeasure to admit being from Cradley.

Excellent edition... It's a true credit to the sport..

Dream on

You do talk alot of crap when it comes to tracks. How do you solve the problem where tracks share with dogs? All you keep talking about is the NSS ! We all know it's the best but you're never going to get all the tracks the same. But with better track preparation and at least the bspa are doing something about that this year if we get a season.

About as wishful as people sticking with the sport to see "a good nights racing" , crowds don't lie.

Spot on.. In the past 30 years attendances have steadily declined overall and for much of that continual decline we had the 'world's best' riding, which, to keep them, meant regular inflation busting admission increases year on year, which in no small part, resulted in less followers.. The Premiership clubs get the best attendances because there is a 'natural' selection based on the history of each club, not because of 'who is there'.. If the Aces dropped down for example, and rode on Friday or Saturdays, there certainly wouldn't be any less there than currently, and quite possibly many more given how many attended 'weekend Speedway' the first year in the NSS. Therefore the Aces have enough followers to be 'top division'.. Glasgow I would suggest now get close to, if not better than, some Premiership clubs' attendances with 'lesser' riders (although many are the same!), so they are becoming a bigger name in the sport after historically being one of the 'lower league clubs'. After a few years of this they too may become 'naturally' a top division team if the crowds keep at those levels.. Leicester dropped a division, lost the World Champ, changed nights and improved crowds. Meaning their 'natural level' to be successful as a business is, I would suggest, the second tier.. And Cradley in the NL had better crowds than Wolves and if they had a track to race on would immediately be top division I would say given that's their 'natural' level given their crowd numbers... Some clubs in the second division could have Nikki P and Jason Crump riding for them next year and after a month I can virtually guarantee crowds would be pretty much as normal, because that is their 'natural level of crowd', hence they stay where they are.. Bringing 'big names' back wont bring 'big crowds' back. Because when they were all there, big crowds became smaller crowds..

whats the difference between gp riders and good league riders? 1, 2 or 3 seconds. Who notices? And as for entertainment, you get that with any standard of rider if they're willing to have a go. Look at Danny Ayres - loved at every track he rode at, just as much fun watching him as Jason Doyle

Not sure who posted on here about top riders coming back over here, it was said that woffinden would put 600 plus fans on the gate just look when he ride for wolves half way through the season he did NOT put that figure on top of the normal attendance. If people think that way are living on a different planet . In the 90s yes but not now.

Nicely argued. But is doing nothing an option?

The common thread between everyone reading and posting on this thread is that we are all Speedway fans. Even if our opinions on the whys and wherefores differ, the majority of us, I think it is safe to say, agree that something in British Speedway needs to change. This isn’t a viewpoint driven by the current situation regarding Covid-19 either but a long standing belief held by many of the most important people in the sport. The fans. Each of us have an opinion of what the main problem is with the sport - that one thing we would like to see fixed personally. But in reality the issues are deep rooted and multi-faceted. There is not one quick fix for British Speedway and I don’t think there has been for as long as I have been a fan. I began to make a list of things that could be seen as issues within the sport here by fans. It is not exhaustive, I'm sure we could add to it, but it is very long. These issues are not necessarily my opinion either. Some of the issues overlap of course but that just proves that the troubles within the sport are not black and white: Racing isn’t good enough. British riders aren’t good enough. Too many foreign riders taking spots Brits could fill. Riders want to be paid more money. The sport is too expensive for the fan (no value for money). Meetings take too long. No additional entertainment at meetings. Race night issues, clashes with foreign leagues. Doubling up. Competition and race formats. Guests, R/R etc. Averages and average manipulation. No big names in the top league. Facilities aren’t good enough. The reality of the situation is simple. We must rip it up and start again. Now is as good a time as any to do so. With correct planning we could reboot British Speedway in time for the 2021 season with a model built for the long term success of the sport in this country and aspirations for it to thrive once again long term. 2020 could still be salvaged depending on how much of a summer we are left with, however this could be focussed less around the team aspect of the sport and more around an individual element, with a focus on the British Championship, perhaps being run over a series of qualifying rounds culminating in a small GP style competition.

may be you should go and read last weeks Speedway Star. Nicholls / Harris and King review various Tracks, looks like they are going to do an A - Z. All Class riders and all saying the same thing broadly. There is a place for all types of track, the ones where you stick you backside on the back guard and throttle full on (often boring and processional in my opinion as there is only 1 line) and the ones that are far more technical and require throttle control and rider to turn the bike (can be equally boring as the riders who have the ability to do that are often head and shoulders above the rest and a dying breed) Converse thinking is you can and do have great racing at big fast and technical tracks. I've seen great racing at most tracks and equally boring racing at those tracks, Generalisation is easy. If every track was built like NSS which I think is a good track but over-rated wouldn't racing be boring in general as the vast difference in types and skills required would be nullified. The greats could ride anything, from Crayford to Crewe, they never moaned and complained. Look at the 10 point average riders in those days, cream rose to the top, look now, there aren't any basically, as all much of a muchness. We have a generation of riders (those that came after Nicholls / Harris and King who can ride anything) who only know one way to ride, very few have actually learned proper throttle control and the engines are revved to destruction. De-tune, limit revs, bring onus back on to throttle control not throttle bashing and the sport would improve overnight. I did Trials and Road Racing, I learned how to ride fast and how to ride the bike properly. I didn't have the natural ability to excel at either but I'll tell you this, anyone can ride a bike flat out, takes a rider to learn throttle control!

I doubt you will see any form of Speedway in the UK this year at all and this is being realistic.

You’re slipping from debate to abuse.

Like I said no stats and either one of us could be right. no doubt some meetings and seasons Cradley might have done slightly better attendance wise but I doubt as a general tho.

Would love to know what baggage Pedersen and Gollob have to be lumped in with that lot.

Spot on Crabba. So Stoke Potter (how ironic) would close any track with a dog track as dog racing is in a worse place than speedway??? Maybe he'd like to visit Perry Barr and Monmore Green and see the outstanding Spectator facilities, add Sheffield and a few others. Then he might like to enquire what % of the income of those tracks come from Dogs and Speedway. I'll give him a clue, Speedway is probably less than 10%?? Has he never heard of Betting turnover? Then he might like to go to Mildenhall, Ipswich and Eastbourne and a few others and ask them what % of income comes from Stocks v Speedway. I would estimate 70-80% is from the Stock Cars. Stop talking baloney about Tracks.

But as the crowd validates, very few people actually care.

Totally right how could any club afford Tai now?? maybe if the sky money was still there you might entertain the idea.For me every club should live within its means try to put together a decent side within a budget and try to deliver a good night's racing.This idea about the better riders paying for themselves bringing in more spectators is wishful thinking.

Fair point. But I assume you take my point that you can’t have the best riders if they can’t be paid for by people through the turnstile.

Loads and loads and loads of people, the notion the difference is 1, 2 or 3 seconds is beyond mental.

I would say your figures are pretty skewed in favor of the answer you want from the question to be honest.

Same here, sadly almost word for word, especialy hi-lited emboldened part, + a much younger family member hospitalised with full-on Covid-19 symptoms. You could also add staff wandering from department to department and and / or standing around in huddles gossiping - all without the sometimes 'fashion item regarded' PPE gear that some bleat on they so desperately need. There are of course many very caring, dedicated and hard-working NHS staff too. I'll stop in order to calm down and before I say something I may later regret, except s*** got real....

NOT any longer

Teterow still advertised on the GP website as taking place. They missed your post to Iris.

Teterow is off. I posted a link a couple of days ago. And to give them some credit they did announce it quite quickly after the governments recommendations last week. It was one of the first big events announced and so had quite a bit of tv and internet exposure through that As you pointed out, it was a bit confusing just which thread to post on.....

Back in the 1960's I used to watch racing at Wimbledon, Hackney, West Ham and New Cross. As a kid I never liked West Ham because there were such large gaps between the riders after the first lap. I loved New Cross as they were all bunched up and even if they never passed each other it looked good. Wider, I would agree makes passing easier but that can be a double edged sword as the top rider misses the gate and can easily make a pass on the reserve who made the gate! There are arguments for and against all sizes and shapes of tracks but the thing that is a problem is that the current engines cost far too much for the riders.

I did post it earlier, but buried away on the long track thread, where I thought it more relevant I also saw the news earlier that there are still problems at the Danish/ German border where apparently having a spouse or family living on the other side of the border isn’t an important enough reason to be allowed through. So it will be hard for speedway riders I guess to keep going in and out of the country, even if speedway starts up

I agree with W9 - part of current planning seems to be the linking of housing and roads as an integral part of any scheme. If you want to build a major road then it is linked to and financed by housing development. If you want to build houses then the developer now has to fund the infrastructure (road) upgrades as part of .

To be honest that’s the least of our worries there is people are dying of this virus up and down our country- if speedway season starts all well and good we will be on top of beating the virus - until then in the big picture speedway doesn’t matter.

Watched loads of recent meetings on YouTube and there is a huge clear difference between the racing standards from track to track.. In no particular order.. The NSS, Somerset, Redcar, and Scunthorpe seem to have the majority of their races close and with passing, with Glasgow, Berwick and Peterborough having several 'very decent races' in the next level down.. Not seen too much from anywhere else to be honest other than an odd decent race per meeting, with some tracks getting you to 'move on' to the next coverage after four or five heats such is the lack of any close action post bend two.. It must be hard to sell the racing at some tracks..

Mystery solved - rider has been identified on the Hackney Facebook page as a Dutch junior called Rene Hellzinger

Some of the more progressive Promotions have already announced that this will be the case. I highlighted last week a few who have already made announcements with Free Offers and significantly reduced Admission Rates. Other Clubs will no doubt follow once the actual position about chances of Racing in 2020 are known. It's not all doom and gloom out there far from it. The biggest danger as I see it are the dinosaurs amongst the current Promoter population just carrying on regardless and killing the Sport in the process. A breakaway of the progressives at some point might be the best solution and that takes us full cycle back to the 60's.

Ave got something like 40 bottles but every so often one springs a leak from the top and has to be consumed... Funny that... Doh... Regards THJ

It's a team sport with a fairly complicated scoring process. Every match should have the score on display in some form or other. I cannot understand why they don't, although I suspect it is so they can flog more programmes.

I agree that a scoreboard should be at every stadium but then I was brought up at Wimbledon who used the dog racing boards they had from the time I started going in 1959. They had the heat result, time and score up on the board. Could be very useful if the speakers were not working too well.

As others have said, it looks like there's virtually no chance to have any meaningful team meetings this season, all we can hope for is to be allowed to run some open meetings. If, and it's a big 'if', we get the go ahead (say in August / September), how about each track hosting a 'Festival of Speedway' round for the British based riders (of any division) - maybe with a 'final' at the NSS on tv for the top scorers? Maybe even have under 15s in their own category and / or sidecar racing if it were feasible. As has been said though - any costs would have to be outweighed by the revenue generated. People will be desperate to get out and about again and if it were marketed properly it might just attract a few new fans / sponsors for next season. Some say that I'm a dreamer...………...

I tend to agree. I'm sure that speedway will survive and hopefully common sense will previal and expenses looked at...the days of super-charged bikes costing thousands to tune may well be at an end as it's unsustainable at the present level certainly in this country. If that means that "The Stars" look abroad for the mega bucks then so be it.

Interesting that the old 15 year survey on another thread had only 30% of fans attending in the main to 'support their team', and only 10% went based on the quality of riders on show.. And that was when more 'top names' rode over here.. Therefore, presuming the %'s are still similar, (and I would think they are not a million miles away), what an opportunity to put on 'entertaining Speedway' in whatever guise it can.. When 70% go and watch and are not unduly bothered which team wins, then they are a real target market for each track to have them go away thinking "that night was great, I'll be back next time".. The promoters should spend this down time working out how to deliver 'a great night out' when the sport returns, rather than spending time getting slide rules out to determine whether 'Rider A' can guest for 'Rider B' in a meeting that only 3 in 10 fans in attendance are bothered who wins... A huge opportunity for fundamental radical change.. Will it be taken?

It is with great sadness we received the news this morning that Bill Slaughter, a big supporter of the Isle of Wight Speedway, the National League and many riders including Kelsey Dugard and Alex Spooner, has passed away. Warriors Promoters Barry Bishop and Martin Widman have written their respects on the Warriors social media, which are both included below: Barry Bishop: Very upset to read this news from Kelsey Dugard about Bill Slaughter. Many of you will have known him on the pits gate or around the stadium. Bill first got involved with the Warrior - Way as a driver for Kelsey and he loved the place so much he continued to travel from his home every week to watch and support the Warriors before becoming a valued member of our volunteers force. Although a volunteer, Bill still paid his ferry fares and bought a season ticket for the club every year to do his bit. God’s speed my friend, until we meet up again. Martin Widman: It is with great regret that I post the following news that was passed to me this morning By Kelsey Dugard and that is the passing of Bill Slaughter, our friend, supporter and recently the best dressed gate man in speedway. Bill you were a gentleman in every way, charming, courteous and very supportive of several young speedway riders. You will be missed by many people. RIP my friend. Bill will be greatly missed on the Island and around the tracks in UK speedway. RIP Bill.

We will be lucky if any GP Speedway in 2020, sadly never mind speedway here in UK leagues The Germans way ahead of UK in handling crisis and you wonder if some Govt Ministers have any ideas on how to curb it ?

We don't just need April 1st for fools on here, there's plenty to go round for the whole year really

The sad news filtered through today of the death of Mark Lawton. Any old school Wolverhampton, and indeed, speedway fan will know of his impact. He was co-creator of the Wolfcry website who were one of the very first, if not the first, to begin online live updates. He truly was one of the kindest, most generous, men I have ever had the pleasure of knowing and will be sadly missed. RIP Mark

To me, Mark was the pioneer who took the power of the Internet to Wolves fans. The fans communication age started with him. He created a 'family' that could meet via the keyboard or talk traditionally at the first step of the middle terrace above the starting gate. The management could never embrace this and even the building of that concrete monolith couldn't beat the Wolfcry crowd. Die hard Wolves fans were lost to the sport but Mark's legacy remains. Once, I went to Wombourne and Mark drove me to Poole. We chatted all the way and settled the dust in a Pub in the New Forest. It's the only time I wished the Dorset trek could have been longer! My life was the richer for meeting him. The politics of Speedway hurt him... the sport didn't. I said Speedway, Bob Dylan and the odd beer or two kept me going. He understood that. We have lost a gifted teacher - Gods' Internet has just gone up a level. RIP Mark. May you never be forgotten.