Crump99

We've branched out into alternative physiotherapy you do at your own pace.

"Berwick racer David Bellego will now guest for Dryml while Panthers will use rider replacement to cover for Fisher." Panthersweb

Don't know where 2400 came from because that's totally unrealistic (pick a number like season ticket sales). I'm sure that I'd have seen it if it was said? If that team was expensive then he really was getting bad advice. They were disastrous because the team was half fit, came in cold & got turned over first night by that lot from the bird cage and then we never took decisive action to stop the slide as Frost admitted he should have done.

2006 was midweek and Horton made a shedful with a decent product and decent presentation. From June of 2013 fixtures were all over the place but with decent product and presentation Frost added: “Crowd levels were disastrous in the first part of the season (more Friday). They went up as the team began to perform well." I doubt that you'd get consistent Friday's at the EoES these days anyway which brings us back to will PL speedway, which nobody outside of the sport can relate to these days IMO (The SGP, SEC, Sweden, Sky etc is what they see), balance the books in a more fragmented fixture list? I think that we'd soon be having a discussion about why it isn't working?

No I wasn't there but was going by what opposition fans kept saying which seems to agree with Frost but disagree with you? "Frost revealed that crowds at the Showground only averaged around 800 during last season (2009) and admits that is barely half of the figure required for the club to break even (1500)." "Peterborough Panthers bosses have admitted that attendance figures have fallen during the 2012 season." "Panthers are nowhere near to meeting their break-even requirement of average crowds of 2,000 (2012)" That's what you get for no success, signing Bjerre year on year and giving Swindon the 2012 title! There seems to be something there about lack of success increasing the break even figure exponentially so 2400 might be right although I never saw that. So you think that the Tuesday production on a Friday will solve the problem? How many Fridays did MH have during his first tenure?

Last season, in what some would say was a proper league with proper on the whole presentation, Panthers started off with 4 straight Fridays, followed by Poole with the world champion on a Thursday and a B/H Monday fixture against the Bees - so that took us to the end of May and - Frost added: “Crowd levels were disastrous in the first part of the season. They went up as the team began to perform well." Think you're getting carried away with the pulling power of moving what we have on Tuesday to a Friday.

To be fair to Rick and Julie they did get more Fridays in the calendar than many had been able to in the last 10 years but the end result was the same. It's still what you (as well as what the useless rules allow) and the visitors are allowed to put on track and how it's presented. Simple equation and we thank those who put their money and time into making it happen.

That's the double whammy isn't it (as well as Leicester down the road) or a triple if they win the EL, although the 2014 EL title will be like Foinavon winning the 1967 Grand National

But that's the use it or lose it negativity which just evades the question and doesn't solve anything. No speedway fan in their right mind or the establishment wants to lose a great track and facilities but you can't just expect people to turn up because it's there. That's enough for the few hundred but it's the others that are the problem.

Which brings us back to the beginning as to why we don't have enough supporters? Why don't people want to attend, probably including some who would class themselves as proper supporters but will not turn to anything just because it's there (is that the definition of proper? Perhaps it is!)? Yes they risk not having that choice by their actions but irrespective of the night it's got to be a seen as a product worth turning out for. Compare the last few months of 2013 against 2014 and that might start to answer some of the questions?

So one of the reasons you don't go is the drop to PL and you would prefer to watch better quality Swedish League and then our assets on a Wednesday whilst getting your EoES fix by foisting PL on the locals on a Friday. If we could get regular Fridays, coupled with the organisation we had towards the end of last season then I doubt that we'd be having this discussion.

You'd have to be a Panthers fan of 15 years plus to know anything else though so it shouldn't be a surprise that that's what many fans want. They've probably never experienced lower level speedway and don't want to? That was part of the Tuesday gamble? I've seen it all at the EoES but know which I prefer although as you pointed out, it's the overall package that isn't right.

Another thing pointed out by Bratters a few years ago. Although not relating to season tickets, your point is fans outside of this big city have a significant effect on attendances. The focus has to be on getting locals to attend. Two things however, will always stick in my mind about whether Peterborough as a city will support Speedway in the 21st Century. 1) It has always concerned me that an inordinately high percentage of season ticket holders never had a Peterborough post code, this frankly, is shocking. 2) I will never forget that the 2006 Grand Final, arguably the greatest modern day meeting ever, watched live by over 6000 people and by thousands more at home, was followed by a Craven Shield fixture attended by less than 700 people. If that Grand Final won’t pull people in, then what will?!?!

I'd imagine that many of those unhappy no longer go or contribute to the forums? Have you actually read Horton's piece? It doesn't suit enough. The hardcore few hundred will always turn up. I'm not sure that Tuesday is the real issue but it is a nothing night at the wrong end of the week but done with a purpose so worth a try. However, the overall package at the EoES therefore has to be good enough to make us want to turn out and encourage friends, family and work colleagues to attend as they would like. I'm struggling myself to turn out so the second part has no chance at the moment.

Panthers have done surveys though 2007 & 2008 - They also have season ticket details 2007 & 2010 although I'd imagine the Bratters held most of the data so it's probably in long thin strips now. Probably we could have a new survey now to see what works and what doesn't and how popular the national anthem really is (although with the right questions you can get any survey answer)? The 2014 season ticket renewal did ask those not renewing to say why (optional of course) so they perhaps have some data. That would have been based on the last few months of 2013, the winter goings on and what people thought they might get in 2014, but now they know the reality then perhaps it needs a bit more work?

What do you mean few years ago? This is from Bratters final blog and I remember those meetings well and thought the same: "I will never forget that the 2006 Grand Final, arguably the greatest modern day meeting ever, watched live by over 6000 people and by thousands more at home, was followed by a Craven Shield fixture attended by less than 700 people. If that Grand Final won’t pull people in, then what will?!?!" Colin Horton 2007: "I need to see 1,500 people coming through the gates but we are not getting anywhere near that. And to see less than 500 here against Reading last Thursday was galling." And MH has been there before: "Mick Horton has issued a harsh message to the club's fans - support us or lose us." (2004) - so I was surprised that he had another go tbh given the massive changes the consortium had to make. Where we are now was always the more likely outcome surely? As Bratters said: "In all fairness, it has been a pretty turbulent time at Alwalton since the departure of the Lynch, Jarvis and Wing promotion in 2002." - and that's when the wheels came off at the EoES due to new administration who made Friday night consistency impossible.

PANTHERS 1. Ryan Fisher 2. Lewis Blackbird 3. Ales Dryml 4. Ulrich Ostergaard 5. Lasse Bjerre 6. Joe Jacobs 7. Nicki Barrett RYE HOUSE 1. Edward Kennett 2. Luke Bowen 3. Mathieu Tresarrieu 4. r/r 5. Steve Boxall 6. Jason Bunyan 7. Stefan Nielsen

Nope that's not it.

Because not enough agree with that quote!

It's not always the public though is it? It rarely makes a difference what the public thinks although they are often correct and wait for something like: "PANTHERS owner Mick Horton has threatened to ring the changes unless his under-achieving riders start to improve. (peterboroughtoday.co.uk - 9/4/2003) "FURIOUS owner Mick Horton is threatening to ring the changes in a bid to stop the rot at Panthers." (peterboroughtoday.co.uk - 10/9/2003) "Owner Rick Frost admits he should have acted sooner to salvage Panthers’ season." (peterboroughtoday.co.uk - 28/10/13)

How many can say this though: It was another tough year off the track with Panthers again making losses of more than £100,000 - the norm during the five-and-a-half-year reign of Frost and fellow owner Julie Mahoney. Frost added: “There are losses at Peterborough every year but myself and Julie are very fortunate in that our companies make a lot of money. “Without wishing to sound blasé, it is not big bucks to us. Financing the club has been part of our advertising and branding budget. the club are keen to attract new backers for next year. - note, next year peterboroughtoday.co.uk October 28 2013

I'm not negotiating with anyone. I only come up with ideas I can't afford, which is why if Newcastle are in trouble then they'll have to use Tsunami's expertise with no cost solutions!

Why less of a miss in 2015, don't understand? True we have speedway but I'm not sure how long people can play that card? At the end of the day it's got to be an overall product that people want to turn up to so that those doing the work feel that the effort is worthwhile. That's probably why we have a regular turnover of promoters and why it was disappointing that Frost & Mahoney dipped out just when they'd stopped the rot, probably saw what was coming! As a Panthers fan whose team has seemingly received little from our lords and masters over recent years, I take a couple of quotes from Birmingham since you bring it up: “No-one has come forward with support and the BSPA, well, what can I say? “I feel very badly let down but should have expected it, I’ve been warned enough.” So Birmingham is probably the tip of the iceberg then? Running speedway is generally a thankless task and we thank those who put in their money and effort but still having speedway only works for the hardcore few hundred with many more options for joe public's pound these days: "In the meantime, out of respect for the few hardcore supporters with whom I have a terrific relationship, I am in negotiations with a third party to try and ensure the continuation of Birmingham Speedway."

I do believe that Iversen, Bjerre, Andersen, Batchelor, Buczkowski, MJJ are our assets and riding in the BEL, they'd do! Variety's overrated. I would agree that the EL is continuing to go downhill so not such a miss in 2014.

Time to review at the EoES (well Plummer's view anyway): Speedway: The pros and cons of racing in the Premier League - (peterboroughtoday 27/6/14) We are slap-bang in the middle of the speedway season. Therefore it is the perfect time for MARK PLUMMER to assess the positives and negatives of Panthers’ return to Premier League racing for the first time since 1998... PROS Regular racing Panthers fans have long since called for regular action at Alwalton and the move into the Premier League has allowed that to happen. The vast majority of home meetings are taking place on Tuesday nights. Excellent entertainment The racing has probably been better than ever at the East of England Showground. A whole host of thrilling home meetings have taken place on the city shale with the likes of number one Ryan Fisher and skipper Ulrich Ostergaard providing edge-of-the-seat drama in almost every ride. More chances of glory A packed calendar of racing and a host of different competitions means plenty of opportunities to challenge for honours. Panthers are out of the KO Cup, but are still involved in the last four of the League Cup and will be expected to charge through the Premier League pack to clinch a play-off spot. In addition there is also Premier League Pairs and Premier League Fours glory to aim at with Panthers boasting home advantage for the latter. Variety Of course there are plenty of familiar faces from the Elite League era spread across the Premier League’s 13 teams, but there is also lots of exciting young talent which many Panthers fans will be seeing for the first time. It all adds up to a truly competitive environment. CONS Poor turnout Panthers have struggled to attract sustainable attendances despite providing regular, high-class racing and lowering admission prices. Mick Horton has gone as far as urging regular supporters to help boost crowds by introducing family members, friends and work colleagues to the sport. Tuesday trouble There must be a question mark over whether or not the club’s chosen race-night has caught on. Panthers run the risk of clashes with football matches (both local and national, live and televised) during the opening and closing months of the speedway season. Fixture clashes They are almost inevitable in a structure where some riders can operate at all three levels and plenty more race in two leagues, but they can be a serious hindrance. For example Panthers recently travelled to Plymouth for an important KO Cup quarter-final, second leg without number one Ryan Fisher and reserve Joe Jacobs, who were both required by their Elite League clubs on the same night. Short on stars One gripe occasionally aired this season is the absence of big-name riders. It is of course a completely accurate point, yet one which certainly wouldn’t be guaranteed to improve on the terrific action already being served up.