Crump99

Which brings us back to the beginning as to why we don't have enough supporters? Why don't people want to attend, probably including some who would class themselves as proper supporters but will not turn to anything just because it's there (is that the definition of proper? Perhaps it is!)? Yes they risk not having that choice by their actions but irrespective of the night it's got to be a seen as a product worth turning out for. Compare the last few months of 2013 against 2014 and that might start to answer some of the questions?

So one of the reasons you don't go is the drop to PL and you would prefer to watch better quality Swedish League and then our assets on a Wednesday whilst getting your EoES fix by foisting PL on the locals on a Friday. If we could get regular Fridays, coupled with the organisation we had towards the end of last season then I doubt that we'd be having this discussion.

You'd have to be a Panthers fan of 15 years plus to know anything else though so it shouldn't be a surprise that that's what many fans want. They've probably never experienced lower level speedway and don't want to? That was part of the Tuesday gamble? I've seen it all at the EoES but know which I prefer although as you pointed out, it's the overall package that isn't right.

Another thing pointed out by Bratters a few years ago. Although not relating to season tickets, your point is fans outside of this big city have a significant effect on attendances. The focus has to be on getting locals to attend. Two things however, will always stick in my mind about whether Peterborough as a city will support Speedway in the 21st Century. 1) It has always concerned me that an inordinately high percentage of season ticket holders never had a Peterborough post code, this frankly, is shocking. 2) I will never forget that the 2006 Grand Final, arguably the greatest modern day meeting ever, watched live by over 6000 people and by thousands more at home, was followed by a Craven Shield fixture attended by less than 700 people. If that Grand Final won’t pull people in, then what will?!?!

I'd imagine that many of those unhappy no longer go or contribute to the forums? Have you actually read Horton's piece? It doesn't suit enough. The hardcore few hundred will always turn up. I'm not sure that Tuesday is the real issue but it is a nothing night at the wrong end of the week but done with a purpose so worth a try. However, the overall package at the EoES therefore has to be good enough to make us want to turn out and encourage friends, family and work colleagues to attend as they would like. I'm struggling myself to turn out so the second part has no chance at the moment.

Panthers have done surveys though 2007 & 2008 - They also have season ticket details 2007 & 2010 although I'd imagine the Bratters held most of the data so it's probably in long thin strips now. Probably we could have a new survey now to see what works and what doesn't and how popular the national anthem really is (although with the right questions you can get any survey answer)? The 2014 season ticket renewal did ask those not renewing to say why (optional of course) so they perhaps have some data. That would have been based on the last few months of 2013, the winter goings on and what people thought they might get in 2014, but now they know the reality then perhaps it needs a bit more work?

What do you mean few years ago? This is from Bratters final blog and I remember those meetings well and thought the same: "I will never forget that the 2006 Grand Final, arguably the greatest modern day meeting ever, watched live by over 6000 people and by thousands more at home, was followed by a Craven Shield fixture attended by less than 700 people. If that Grand Final won’t pull people in, then what will?!?!" Colin Horton 2007: "I need to see 1,500 people coming through the gates but we are not getting anywhere near that. And to see less than 500 here against Reading last Thursday was galling." And MH has been there before: "Mick Horton has issued a harsh message to the club's fans - support us or lose us." (2004) - so I was surprised that he had another go tbh given the massive changes the consortium had to make. Where we are now was always the more likely outcome surely? As Bratters said: "In all fairness, it has been a pretty turbulent time at Alwalton since the departure of the Lynch, Jarvis and Wing promotion in 2002." - and that's when the wheels came off at the EoES due to new administration who made Friday night consistency impossible.

PANTHERS 1. Ryan Fisher 2. Lewis Blackbird 3. Ales Dryml 4. Ulrich Ostergaard 5. Lasse Bjerre 6. Joe Jacobs 7. Nicki Barrett RYE HOUSE 1. Edward Kennett 2. Luke Bowen 3. Mathieu Tresarrieu 4. r/r 5. Steve Boxall 6. Jason Bunyan 7. Stefan Nielsen

Nope that's not it.

Because not enough agree with that quote!

It's not always the public though is it? It rarely makes a difference what the public thinks although they are often correct and wait for something like: "PANTHERS owner Mick Horton has threatened to ring the changes unless his under-achieving riders start to improve. (peterboroughtoday.co.uk - 9/4/2003) "FURIOUS owner Mick Horton is threatening to ring the changes in a bid to stop the rot at Panthers." (peterboroughtoday.co.uk - 10/9/2003) "Owner Rick Frost admits he should have acted sooner to salvage Panthers’ season." (peterboroughtoday.co.uk - 28/10/13)

How many can say this though: It was another tough year off the track with Panthers again making losses of more than £100,000 - the norm during the five-and-a-half-year reign of Frost and fellow owner Julie Mahoney. Frost added: “There are losses at Peterborough every year but myself and Julie are very fortunate in that our companies make a lot of money. “Without wishing to sound blasé, it is not big bucks to us. Financing the club has been part of our advertising and branding budget. the club are keen to attract new backers for next year. - note, next year peterboroughtoday.co.uk October 28 2013

I'm not negotiating with anyone. I only come up with ideas I can't afford, which is why if Newcastle are in trouble then they'll have to use Tsunami's expertise with no cost solutions!

Why less of a miss in 2015, don't understand? True we have speedway but I'm not sure how long people can play that card? At the end of the day it's got to be an overall product that people want to turn up to so that those doing the work feel that the effort is worthwhile. That's probably why we have a regular turnover of promoters and why it was disappointing that Frost & Mahoney dipped out just when they'd stopped the rot, probably saw what was coming! As a Panthers fan whose team has seemingly received little from our lords and masters over recent years, I take a couple of quotes from Birmingham since you bring it up: “No-one has come forward with support and the BSPA, well, what can I say? “I feel very badly let down but should have expected it, I’ve been warned enough.” So Birmingham is probably the tip of the iceberg then? Running speedway is generally a thankless task and we thank those who put in their money and effort but still having speedway only works for the hardcore few hundred with many more options for joe public's pound these days: "In the meantime, out of respect for the few hardcore supporters with whom I have a terrific relationship, I am in negotiations with a third party to try and ensure the continuation of Birmingham Speedway."

I do believe that Iversen, Bjerre, Andersen, Batchelor, Buczkowski, MJJ are our assets and riding in the BEL, they'd do! Variety's overrated. I would agree that the EL is continuing to go downhill so not such a miss in 2014.

Time to review at the EoES (well Plummer's view anyway): Speedway: The pros and cons of racing in the Premier League - (peterboroughtoday 27/6/14) We are slap-bang in the middle of the speedway season. Therefore it is the perfect time for MARK PLUMMER to assess the positives and negatives of Panthers’ return to Premier League racing for the first time since 1998... PROS Regular racing Panthers fans have long since called for regular action at Alwalton and the move into the Premier League has allowed that to happen. The vast majority of home meetings are taking place on Tuesday nights. Excellent entertainment The racing has probably been better than ever at the East of England Showground. A whole host of thrilling home meetings have taken place on the city shale with the likes of number one Ryan Fisher and skipper Ulrich Ostergaard providing edge-of-the-seat drama in almost every ride. More chances of glory A packed calendar of racing and a host of different competitions means plenty of opportunities to challenge for honours. Panthers are out of the KO Cup, but are still involved in the last four of the League Cup and will be expected to charge through the Premier League pack to clinch a play-off spot. In addition there is also Premier League Pairs and Premier League Fours glory to aim at with Panthers boasting home advantage for the latter. Variety Of course there are plenty of familiar faces from the Elite League era spread across the Premier League’s 13 teams, but there is also lots of exciting young talent which many Panthers fans will be seeing for the first time. It all adds up to a truly competitive environment. CONS Poor turnout Panthers have struggled to attract sustainable attendances despite providing regular, high-class racing and lowering admission prices. Mick Horton has gone as far as urging regular supporters to help boost crowds by introducing family members, friends and work colleagues to the sport. Tuesday trouble There must be a question mark over whether or not the club’s chosen race-night has caught on. Panthers run the risk of clashes with football matches (both local and national, live and televised) during the opening and closing months of the speedway season. Fixture clashes They are almost inevitable in a structure where some riders can operate at all three levels and plenty more race in two leagues, but they can be a serious hindrance. For example Panthers recently travelled to Plymouth for an important KO Cup quarter-final, second leg without number one Ryan Fisher and reserve Joe Jacobs, who were both required by their Elite League clubs on the same night. Short on stars One gripe occasionally aired this season is the absence of big-name riders. It is of course a completely accurate point, yet one which certainly wouldn’t be guaranteed to improve on the terrific action already being served up.

I remember Jim Lynch using that one when my mate discussed with him after a match at Kings Lynn that timing was just as important as getting 6 from the ride, perhaps why it's called tactical ride

Having said that, apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Probably but it's not a few weeks ago. They said the same about Hougaard last season and at the time nobody could have argued the decision if it had been taken.

Now come on, it's becoming the comedy highlight of the evening, it's like musical chairs for adults who don't want to play! Also needed a good night's sleep to recover from the music and roving (I call it overused and irritating) mic - loud or what? Did have another laugh whilst discussing heat 11 in the stand to some soft background music quickly substituted by some booming dross to which my mate said: "that's got rid of that, far too melodic" On the positive, plenty of riders doing victory laps to interact with the crowd (as much as one can wheelieing down the home straight) and heat 15 line-up announced before the ink had dried on heat 14 Wasn't a great meeting due to it being too dry and slick. Sheffield also look decent on paper but put them on shale and it's a different matter. Never thought I'd like watching a Bjerre but young Lasse bucks the trend.

Panthers are at full-strength as they bid to become more dominant on home shale. Their last four Showground outings have resulted in narrow victories by between two and six-point margins. Sheffield are spearheaded by in-form skipper Simon Stead. The Tigers number one was a member of the Panthers team that swept to Premier League title glory in their last season at this level in 1998. Early-season signing Ty Proctor is another handy Alwalton performer while Taylor Poole scored five points – including a heat 14 triumph – when guesting here for Workington in a League Cup semi-final showdown last week. TEAMS: ‘TC HARRISON’ PANTHERS: Ryan Fisher, Lewis Blackbird, Ales Dryml, Ulrich Ostergaard, Lasse Bjerre, Joe Jacobs, Nicki Barrett. SHEFFIELD: Simon Stead, Taylor Poole, Leigh Lanham, Andre Compton, Ty Proctor, Simon Nielsen, Josh Bates. peterboroughpanthers.co

Perhaps Joe Jacobs explained: Jacobs has a busy schedule as he races in all three leagues during 2014. He also represents Mildenhall in the National League and is with Wolverhampton in the top flight as part of the Fast Track programme. But he insists his toughest challenge is putting points on the board in Panthers colours. “On the whole I’m really happy with the teams I am at this year,” continued Jacobs. “All the clubs are fairly local to where I live and now I’m just focusing on building some momentum to take into the rest of the season. “The Premier League is very tough to ride in as you’re competing against the opposition’s top riders. “The Elite League is not as difficult because you are always are riding against at least one National League rider.” peterboroughpanthers.co

Panthers 1. Ryan Fisher 2. Lewis Blackbird 3. Ales Dryml 4. Ulrich Ostergaard 5. Lasse Bjerre 6. Joe Jacobs 7. Nicki Barrett SHEFFIELD 1. Simon Stead 2. Taylor Poole 3. Leigh Lanham 4. Andre Compton 5. Ty Proctor 6. Simon Nielsen 7. Josh Bates

Although it's more complicated that this, this is a good starting point: Frost added (28/10/13): “Crowd levels were disastrous in the first part of the season. They went up as the team began to perform well" - one good year in fourteen (2006) has taken it's toll!

Why? It is Peterborough after all, they can't do anything right. You must have noticed over the last few years.