lucifer sam

No I didn't. I said he was never just a NL rider, because he was riding for BL KL at the same time. He blatantly rode for Boston - I said as much. TWK, you seem to have just confused. Lee didn't move up during 1975. He was riding for KL from the start of that year, as well as Boson, hence him never being just a NL rider. All the best Rob

Nah, Mike Lee was World Champ at 21 and Tai at 23. But yes, for me, Woffy is definitely more of a natural talent than Ward. Ward throws his bike all over the place, whereas Woffy looks far more in tune and as one with the bike. All the best Rob

The Provincial League is an interesting one. It was considered to be a league consisting of over-the-hill veterans and completes novices when it first sprung up in 1960, but as people have said, it developed quickly and nurtured many riders who developed into stars after the formation of the British League in 1965. So where do you place it? Level with the modern day National League (third tier), or above the Div 2/NL of 1968-1990? And how high should be NL Div One of 1946-1964 be placed? At times, ALL the best riders in the world were condensed into just SEVEN teams. Amazing some of the riders who occupied reserve berths at times in this period.... All the best Rob Mike Lee was actually World Champ at the age of 21 (Peter Craven and Ronnie Moore also achieved this feat; Craven is still the youngest World Champion). But Mike Lee never really rode just NL - he was really a King's Lynn rider, who also rode for Boston in his first year. All the best Rob

There were a few (a certain Mr Mauger for starters), although the old National League riders were like golddust in the British League, hence the introduction of rider control. All the best Rob

Cheers Norbold - so the National League Division Three of 1947 to 1951 was much stronger than the NDL of today then. All the best Rob

Oldace, yes I've posted all that already, you're about half an hour behind. Incidentally, the NNL only existed in 1975; it was called just the NL in 1976, although many programmes still referred to it as the NNL. ALl the best Rob

Must have been a fairly young Tommy Price at that point, Norbold. Were the others all youngsters, or were any established top riders? I think you were on a better bet with the NL2 of the early fifties.... wasn't Ken Le Breton in there alongside Jack Young? And I'm sure a THIRD Division rider qualified for the World Final one year, although it's escaped me who it was... All the best Rob

1932-1964: The "old" National League 1975: Official name - the New National League 1976-1990: The "new" National League 2010 onwards: The National Development League All the best Rob

Technically, he rode for Boston in the 2008 Conference League, which is now the National League. Also, I'm going to pull BWitcher up for calling the National League from the 1970s and 1980s as "the old National League". Nope it was actually called "The New National League" in 1975. The old National League ran from 1932 to 1964. All the best Rob

SCORPIONS HEAD INTO WITCHES CLASH WITH RENEWED BELIEF FLUIDAIR POWER Scunthorpe Scorpions, supported by Henderson Insurance, head into their Premier League clash with the Ipswich Witches at the Eddie Wright Raceway on Friday evening (7.30pm) with a renewed sense of belief, following their stunning last-gasp 47-43 victory over the Peterborough Panthers last week. For Scunthorpe promoter Rob Godfrey, it’s been one thing after another this season, but he says the last few days since the Peterborough match have been “enjoyable”. Godfrey reflects: “The victory over Peterborough was simply unbelievable. With three races to go, you would have said we didn’t stand a chance. It was against-all-odds to win it from that position. To win a meeting with three 5-1s in the last three races is just incredible. “Earlier on, when Alex Davies shed a chain while out in front in Heat 9, that seemed so typical of our luck this year, and it did seem we were heading for another defeat. “You couldn’t have scripted those final three races any better. It was almost like a moment of divine intervention – someone was looking down on us at that point. “Those three races could well prove to be a defining moment in our season, and indeed a defining moment for Scunthorpe Speedway. The whole atmosphere around the stadium changed; our fans were going mental on the terraces. “I want to thank everyone who came along to the meeting. I am very grateful. The size of the crowd was a big step in the right direction. I think every last person would have gone home happy, wanting to see more. I hope they also tell their mates how good it was, and we can push the attendance up further against Ipswich on Friday.” Godfrey is the centre green presenter for Scorpions’ meetings at the Eddie Wright Raceway, so everyone could see the journey he went through at the conclusion of last week’s meeting. “It was emotional”, he admits. “I’ve put my heart and soul into speedway here, and you get to what seems to be a point of no return, and suddenly something happens that gives you new hope. If we had lost again last week, it would be have so hard to raise spirits again. But suddenly there’s a new found momentum within the team, and a feeling we’re moving in the right direction again.” Although the Scorpions are currently last in the Premier League, Godfrey believes that it leads to entertaining home meetings. He explains: “Every match is tough when you’re bottom of the league, and it’s a battle to win meetings. But it’s perfect for the neutrals and indeed the Scorpions’ fans who like to see close racing. “Peterborough was a fantastic meeting that went all the way, and there’s a good chance that our match against Ipswich, plus several other meetings left here this season, could go the same way. Combined with the fact we have such a good racetrack and that Josh Auty - who I refer to as Mr Entertainment - is back from injury, there are likely to be more brilliant meetings at the Eddie Wright Raceway before the season is out. “At the same time, we’re determined that we do not want to finish bottom, and we’ll be fighting to move up the league table. Fingers crossed, we will have our own seven rides from now until the end of the season, because that will help us. “This Friday against Ipswich, every Friday at the Eddie Wright Raceway, is going to be superb entertainment”, concludes Godfrey.

Isn't Nick Morris out for a while now, as well? All the best Rob

I guess it wasn't too shabby that year Norbold All the best Rob

Who? We're discussing team strengths here. All the best Rob

Interesting topic. And one where it is almost impossible to give a definitive answer, because there's always a valid counterpoint. Everyone's opinion is different and equally valid. For me, though: British League - was at its toughest from 1985 to 1990, when the number of teams was reduced from 18 to 20 down to 9 to 11, and yet the league still contained virtually all the world's top riders. National League - much, much harder to answer. In the 1970s and even into the 1980s, it was possible for a novice to make an instant impression in this league. But maybe this is because these days a rider has to tune up their machinery over a number of years, whereas back in 1970, everyone was on cheap and not very good machinery. That's not really an answer, is it? OK then. The modern-day cosmopolitan Premier League is probably now stronger than it's ever been. Probably too strong, because half the teams can't afford to pay the riders competing in it. However, in terms of strength of British riders ONLY: definitely at its peak from 1973 to 1977, maybe that period could be extended from 1972 to 1980. All the best Rob

Rochester Bombers became Romford Bombers before they ever rode a home meeting. All the best Rob

Didn't get home until 6.45pm, so not enough time to get to Blunsdon. I will have to boo Darcy while watching it on TV instead. All the best Rob

Cheers. It was a great meeting, and the timing couldn't have been better... you could visibly see the spirits of the Scunny fans and management rise over those last three races And it was terrific to see Rob G with a big smile on his face after the meeting. Just hope everyone who came last Friday liked what they saw, and will come back this Friday. All the best Rob

Yeah, I can quite believe you were on the case straight away, you were too far good at your job. But the fact that Somerset protested during the course of the match is good enough for me. In any case, any illegal rides have to be deducted from match scores. It makes a mockery of the sport otherwise. All the best Rob

It was Reading vs Oxford in 1997. The Oxford team manager made a mistake in replacing a non-injured reserve with a supplementary reserve in Heat 1, the ref sanctioned it, Oxford won 46-44 on the night, the Reading team manager protested, and a couple of days later, it was announced the scoreline had been changed to 45-45. As an Oxford fan I wasn't best pleased at the time, but any fury was directed towards those who had made the error, as opposed to the Reading management. Fortunately, the Oxford team manager was changed the following winter. Why bring that up now? Well the Reading team manager, one of the most astute in the business, is one of those contributing to this thread. But that's an example of how it should be. You make a mistake; you get penalised for it. An illegal ride should not be allowed to stand, otherwise it makes a mockery of the sport. All the best Rob

HT, yes there were mistakes all around, after Redcar's original error with the averages. And I agree, we have been given a full explanation of what happened in this case. But I still think it really does send out very much the wrong message in allowing an illegal ride to stand. And Redcar now have three PL points that they should not have. All the best Rob

Agreed. It is shocking that (a) all three parties could miss it (b ) Redcar should be allowed to gain from their mistake. All the best Rob

Whoooosh!!!! I said I didn't think that had happened on this occasion i.e. I said I thought Redcar had made a mistake. You might want to read people's posts properly before replying to them. All the best Rob

One thing I find odd is that I didn't think the referee was supposed to use the club's match programme. Isn't he supposed to use the Kandysoft-supplied programme, which would have had the correct averages on it? I still can't see how Redcar can be allowed to keep the 3 match points. They've gained from their own error. Yes, the referee made a mistake too in not checking it properly. But it sends out a message to teams try the correct thing to do is to pull a fast one (not suggesting Redcar did on this occasion, I think it was a mistake), and hope the referee and opposing team don't spot it. If you track an illegal rider, then those points should be deducted. The clubs who miss out the most are Plymouth and Scunthorpe, who are currently behind Redcar in the Premier League table on false pretences. All the best Rob

Agree with just about all your sentiments there, HT. Heat 14 was just an amazing race. All the best Rob

If Somerset protested on the night, then the points have to be deducted. Kus's ride was clearly illegal. All the best Rob