Workington 2025

[truthsayer]

I think speedway needs to wean itself off a dependency of league racing.

If there are 30 possible race nights in a season, 15 can be the league – one a fortnight.

Let promoters be creative on those other 15 nights, promoting a product that works for their market. That might be high profile open meetings with star riders, pay-to-play Stars of Tomorrow meetings, veterans, regional leagues, junior racing, handicaps, electric, flat track, sidecars… you name it.

Let’s have a veterans’ series, promoted externally and touring the country/continent that promoters can bring in for a night – or a British ACU championship, like a Grand Prix series but for British riders (a la British superbikes) that travels to different venues for a fee.

There needs to be new thinking. If I was a speedway promoter I’d be limited to selling the bucket of cold sick that is league racing. Let them bring in what they think will sell and not just the ‘one size fits none’ approach we have just now.

[Tim G]

20 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

I think speedway needs to wean itself off a dependency of league racing.

If there are 30 possible race nights in a season, 15 can be the league – one a fortnight.

Let promoters be creative on those other 15 nights, promoting a product that works for their market. That might be high profile open meetings with star riders, pay-to-play Stars of Tomorrow meetings, veterans, regional leagues, junior racing, handicaps, electric, flat track, sidecars… you name it.

Let’s have a veterans’ series, promoted externally and touring the country/continent that promoters can bring in for a night – or a British ACU championship, like a Grand Prix series but for British riders (a la British superbikes) that travels to different venues for a fee.

There needs to be new thinking. If I was a speedway promoter I’d be limited to selling the bucket of cold sick that is league racing. Let them bring in what they think will sell and not just the ‘one size fits none’ approach we have just now.

Without league racing speedway will die quicker than what it already is.

Clubs don't run open meetings like they used too as the crowd levels are often worse than at league meetings. The same as sidecar meetings and junior meetings. A lot of what you have said has already been tried and failed. 

BSB runs at about 8 different tracks around the country and will only visit once or twice to a couple of circuits so it is much easier to get a crowd in as it becomes a day out a bit like Cardiff used to be.

 

[Triple.H.]

39 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

I think speedway needs to wean itself off a dependency of league racing.

If there are 30 possible race nights in a season, 15 can be the league – one a fortnight.

Let promoters be creative on those other 15 nights, promoting a product that works for their market. That might be high profile open meetings with star riders, pay-to-play Stars of Tomorrow meetings, veterans, regional leagues, junior racing, handicaps, electric, flat track, sidecars… you name it.

Let’s have a veterans’ series, promoted externally and touring the country/continent that promoters can bring in for a night – or a British ACU championship, like a Grand Prix series but for British riders (a la British superbikes) that travels to different venues for a fee.

There needs to be new thinking. If I was a speedway promoter I’d be limited to selling the bucket of cold sick that is league racing. Let them bring in what they think will sell and not just the ‘one size fits none’ approach we have just now.

Running meetings other than BSPL controlled speedway ?

Isn't that not allowed unless it's only at certain tracks 

Much Love

Nora

Edited July 3, 2025 by Triple.H.

[truthsayer]

12 minutes ago, Tim G said:

Without league racing speedway will die quicker than what it already is.

Clubs don't run open meetings like they used too as the crowd levels are often worse than at league meetings. The same as sidecar meetings and junior meetings. A lot of what you have said has already been tried and failed. 

BSB runs at about 8 different tracks around the country and will only visit once or twice to a couple of circuits so it is much easier to get a crowd in as it becomes a day out a bit like Cardiff used to be.

 

Again, it's about moving away from a business model which relies on 'crowd levels' and one which relies on competitors paying their entry fees. As I say, it's about allowing promoters to put on the product that works for them. A crowd will come out for a veterans meeting, that's what we can do. We can get 30 juniors and 10 sidecar crews to pay to race? That's the meeting we put on. We think we can get a crowd out to see some world class stars - that's what we run.

BSB is not a perfect analogy but it is quite relevant in some ways. Brands Hatch runs a show almost every weekend, but twice a year they get a crowd along to top level bike racing. Places like Knockhill and Thruxton pay money to get the show and make money from the crowd. The point is that competitors pay for the privilege to compete in it (and it's support series) and fans do go along to watch it, even though those circuits host events every weekend.

Brands Hatch has a diverse bunch of motorsports happening every weekend. Leicester speedway has the dross that masquerades as team speedway every week.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

9 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Again, it's about moving away from a business model which relies on 'crowd levels' and one which relies on competitors paying their entry fees. As I say, it's about allowing promoters to put on the product that works for them. A crowd will come out for a veterans meeting, that's what we can do. We can get 30 juniors and 10 sidecar crews to pay to race? That's the meeting we put on. We think we can get a crowd out to see some world class stars - that's what we run.

Who are these veteran riders you speak of ? I have a good knowledge of this and of all the riders that have raced over the years , 99% of them have no interest in riding a bike ever again and the 1% that have a little skid now and again have no inclination to want to race let alone have the equipment to do it 

[truthsayer]

3 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Who are these veteran riders you speak of ? I have a good knowledge of this and of all the riders that have raced over the years , 99% of them have no interest in riding a bike ever again and the 1% that have a little skid now and again have no inclination to want to race let alone have the equipment to do it 

Hey, it's an example of thinking differently.

The Golden Greats thing was, albeit many years ago, a big draw and 'Masters' sport is actually quite a big deal.

It needs someone (external) to promote. Bring some big names from the past over for a tour, add in some local favourites.

If I'm on the outside looking in I see speedway fans as a bunch of rose tinted old timers who have nothing but nostalgia for the past. I'm not saying it's easy, but would the premise of seeing Steve Lawson and Kenny McKinna bring out some Glasgow fans, or could Hans Nielsen and Greg Hancock be a draw for three or four high profile meetings next summer?

I don't know, but it's different and has a PR story that could potentially get people interested.

[Tim G]

8 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Again, it's about moving away from a business model which relies on 'crowd levels' and one which relies on competitors paying their entry fees. As I say, it's about allowing promoters to put on the product that works for them. A crowd will come out for a veterans meeting, that's what we can do. We can get 30 juniors and 10 sidecar crews to pay to race? That's the meeting we put on. We think we can get a crowd out to see some world class stars - that's what we run.

BSB is not a perfect analogy but it is quite relevant in some ways. Brands Hatch runs a show almost every weekend, but twice a year they get a crowd along to top level bike racing. Places like Knockhill and Thruxton pay money to get the show and make money from the crowd. The point is that competitors pay for the privilege to compete in it (and it's support series) and fans do go along to watch it, even though those circuits host events every weekend.

Brands Hatch has a diverse bunch of motorsports happening every weekend. Leicester speedway has the dross that masquerades as team speedway every week.

All great in theory but in reality it wouldn’t work. Poole the other night were struggling to get 16 juniors to ride in a midweek meeting. 

If it becomes pay to compete you would probably only end up with about 4 tracks left in the country.

Most race tracks like Brands Hatch can run everyday so can offer more variation in what they can do to make it sustainable. Unfortunately most speedway tracks can’t operate that way.

 

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

5 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Hey, it's an example of thinking differently.

The Golden Greats thing was, albeit many years ago, a big draw and 'Masters' sport is actually quite a big deal.

It needs someone (external) to promote. Bring some big names from the past over for a tour, add in some local favourites.

If I'm on the outside looking in I see speedway fans as a bunch of rose tinted old timers who have nothing but nostalgia for the past. I'm not saying it's easy, but would the premise of seeing Steve Lawson and Kenny McKinna bring out some Glasgow fans, or could Hans Nielsen and Greg Hancock be a draw for three or four high profile meetings next summer?

I don't know, but it's different and has a PR story that could potentially get people interested.

As I said once retired most stay retired they just not interested, I’m not saying you don’t raise some interesting points  about the concept but I just don’t see it, as I said I have knowledge of this and it’s like asking them to lend you £50,000 

Edited July 3, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[truthsayer]

6 minutes ago, Tim G said:

All great in theory but in reality it wouldn’t work. Poole the other night were struggling to get 16 juniors to ride in a midweek meeting. 

If it becomes pay to compete you would probably only end up with about 4 tracks left in the country.

I understand why people think that way and I don't have an easy solution. The problem with all of this is that the culture for decades has gotten us to where we are.

There are no amateur riders because there are no facilities for amateur riders. But I would bet you anything that if there were at least two meaningful 'pay-to-play' Open meetings that accommodated them at EVERY UK track each year then you would get a core of riders who would participate and you would we able to run to such a model.

But all of this is chicken and egg because there's only one game in town right now and that's team speedway and no real consideration for any other competitors. 

Tweaking points limits and depending on a paying audience will not save British speedway. The sport needs to make more opportunities for riders to ride, but only the top few percent can take a living wage out of it if there is any chance of survival.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 minute ago, truthsayer said:

I understand why people think that way and I don't have an easy solution. The problem with all of this is that the culture for decades has gotten us to where we are.

There are no amateur riders because there are no facilities for amateur riders. But I would bet you anything that if there were at least two meaningful 'pay-to-play' Open meetings that accommodated them at EVERY UK track each year then you would get a core of riders who would participate and you would we able to run to such a model.

But all of this is chicken and egg because there's only one game in town right now and that's team speedway and no real consideration for any other competitors. 

Tweaking points limits and depending on a paying audience will not save British speedway. The sport needs to make more opportunities for riders to ride, but only the top few percent can take a living wage out of it if there is any chance of survival.

There are facilities for amatuer riders to compete all be it not at every track and they really struggle to get enough riders to do it, Leicester, scunny, Lydd, iwade and Isle of Wight all do amatuer meetings, kings Lynn used to do it but it died off, you only have to look at the midland development league, riders get paid and there still not enough riders to go round 

[IainB]

42 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Again, it's about moving away from a business model which relies on 'crowd levels' and one which relies on competitors paying their entry fees. As I say, it's about allowing promoters to put on the product that works for them. A crowd will come out for a veterans meeting, that's what we can do. We can get 30 juniors and 10 sidecar crews to pay to race? That's the meeting we put on. We think we can get a crowd out to see some world class stars - that's what we run.

BSB is not a perfect analogy but it is quite relevant in some ways.

IoW is a better analogy... and look how that went 👎🏻

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

5 minutes ago, IainB said:

IoW is a better analogy... and look how that went 👎🏻

The Isle of Wight problems were the ferry company,nothing to do with the events they were putting on and they now have overcome those issues and are running 7 meetings from end of this month 

Edited July 3, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[IainB]

5 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

The Isle of Wight problems were the ferry company,nothing to do with the events they were putting on and they now have overcome those issues and are running 7 meetings from end of this month 

The ferry thing sounds like a bit of a red herring to me, more likely just waiting for the holiday season to start and their captive audience to arrive, and who can blame them... just as the rest of British Speedway goes on its mid season break. 

7 meetings does not a Speedway season make. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

9 minutes ago, IainB said:

The ferry thing sounds like a bit of a red herring to me, more likely just waiting for the holiday season to start and their captive audience to arrive, and who can blame them... just as the rest of British Speedway goes on its mid season break. 

7 meetings does not a Speedway season make. 

It’s not a red hearing, the ferry is so expensive now(best part of £200 per van ) that it made the speedway unviable but through sponsorship they have overcome those issues, we have just received the fixtures this week 

Edited July 3, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[IainB]

1 minute ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

It’s not a red hearing, the ferry is so expensive now(best part of £200 per van ) that it made the speedway unviable but through sponsorship they have overcome those issues 

Okay, if that's what you want to believe...

[Tim G]

31 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

I understand why people think that way and I don't have an easy solution. The problem with all of this is that the culture for decades has gotten us to where we are.

There are no amateur riders because there are no facilities for amateur riders. But I would bet you anything that if there were at least two meaningful 'pay-to-play' Open meetings that accommodated them at EVERY UK track each year then you would get a core of riders who would participate and you would we able to run to such a model.

But all of this is chicken and egg because there's only one game in town right now and that's team speedway and no real consideration for any other competitors. 

Tweaking points limits and depending on a paying audience will not save British speedway. The sport needs to make more opportunities for riders to ride, but only the top few percent can take a living wage out of it if there is any chance of survival.

I don’t think anyone has a solution and that is why as a sport it is in deep trouble.

Speedway is not like track days where you can rock up on your ride bike, make a few adjustments and go on the track. How many people are going to spend thousands on a bike and van to do this? Not many is the answer.

There are opportunities as Dean has stated and they are struggling to get riders.

i expect also as most tracks are hired, the promoter probably has to sign up for a minimum number of meetings.

To me, we need to lower costs and for clubs to run on the best night for the fan base, I know this means losing top riders. This will not save the sport but hopefully keep it going for a few more seasons.

I don’t think it’s just speedway struggling, I feel the whole motorcycle sector is not very healthy atm.

Edited July 3, 2025 by Tim G

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

3 minutes ago, IainB said:

Okay, if that's what you want to believe...

I don’t need to believe it mate I have a stake in it 

[IainB]

1 minute ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

I don’t need to believe it mate I have a stake in it 

Please elaborate

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

7 minutes ago, IainB said:

Please elaborate

No 

[WookieboyDon]

9 hours ago, proud panther said:

Why couldn't he say that when the problem occurred ?

It still shocks me that people expect or feel entitled to be given immediate information on such matters straight away. It should remain private and confidential as long as those in charge want it to be. When the time is right, you’ll get your answers. 
 

And to those that say “Well I am the paying public, they take my money so I have a right to know.” Well, if your local shop that is family owned suddenly closes for the day and puts up a sign saying ‘Closed temporarily due to unforeseen circumstances’, are you going to bang on the door or phone them up demanding to know why just because you spend money in there?! No, didn’t think so. 
 

This should be no different.