Birmingham Speedway

[Gert Handbag]

On 6/27/2025 at 4:00 PM, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

The frames are still made from the same crap steel they have always been, they have to be to flex, wheels still go round at the same speed they always have, they just lighter and not as strong, engines well apart from better conrods rods and titanium valves the rest of the parts are pretty much the same, they using billet heads instead of cast but it’s all in the name of going faster but facts don’t lie we’re not, yes tracks and silencers and tyres do play a part but the fact remains we are going no faster, I was reading this morning that in the national league at Birmingham in 2016 Lee smart went round Birmingham faster than anyone there last Monday, it’s not progress it’s money down the drain fueled by B/S that is pumped into the minds of riders looking for the next edge when in reality non take a step back to see if they been around long enough today they are not going as fast as they themselves used to, riders are literally peeing money up the wall to stay the same speed but the racing is no better but I believe you get more spaced out racing today than in the past, I would actually like to see someone try in race conditions a upright GM from the 90s v and laydown from 2000s v a today bike on different tracks with top riders on all 3 bikes, you say about reliability of the modern GM engine it lasts around an hour before the big end would start to break apart so they are changed around every 1/2 hour, this was a problem the GTR had, then big end pin started to break up and wasn’t caught because it wasn’t serviced every 30mins which was it’s selling point 

Hi Dean, May I ask you a hypothetical question? I respect the fact that you have ridden these machines at a professional level. The rest of us only dreamed of that.

Do you think Penhall on Weslake, Gundersen on an upright GM or NIelsen on a Godden would get close to a decent rider on modern equipment? I'm not asking if modern riders are better, but how far behind would a World Champion of their era be behind, say, a GP Final today, in your opinion.

 

All for fun and discussion!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, Gert Handbag said:

Hi Dean, May I ask you a hypothetical question? I respect the fact that you have ridden these machines at a professional level. The rest of us only dreamed of that.

Do you think Penhall on Weslake, Gundersen on an upright GM or NIelsen on a Godden would get close to a decent rider on modern equipment? I'm not asking if modern riders are better, but how far behind would a World Champion of their era be behind, say, a GP Final today, in your opinion.

 

All for fun and discussion!

I have debating these very questions for a while now and there was a piece in the speedway star last week prompted by me about the modern bikes in the modern era are not going any faster than the bikes of by gone years, I was using the race times at Sheffield as an example, the times last night at Sheffield were around the 61-63 seconds mark which is the same times as Hans Nielsen and Shaun Moran at the same track in the 80s, now track surfaces, tyres and silencers are a factor but the fact remains we are going no faster despite the £1000s thrown at it, what is going faster is the back wheel speed but the bike speed is roughly the same, an interesting video to watch is Dan bewley riding a godden at Workington when he out with another rider on his modern laydown and how the godden pulls better out of start to first corner, when they were going round you can here the godden struggling for revs coming off the corners but holding its own speed wise but Dan is on an untuned engine with probably the wrong gearing which eventually blows up, so imagine if it was a tuned up godden with the right gearing ? 

 

Edited July 4, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Biffa]

So which forward thinking promoter is going to run an Upright V Laydown challenge meeting. Could create a lot of interest to past generations. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

7 minutes ago, Biffa said:

So which forward thinking promoter is going to run an Upright V Laydown challenge meeting. Could create a lot of interest to past generations. 

Not as easy as it sounds, where are the upright bikes coming from ? The is quite a few knocking around but not owned by current riders and unfortunately 70% of those knocking around are museum pieces and not raced anymore 

Edited July 4, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Sings4Speedway]

23 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Not as easy as it sounds, where are the upright bikes coming from ? The is quite a few knocking around but not owned by current riders and unfortunately 70% of those knocking around are museum pieces and not raced anymore 

Can think of maybe half a dozen decent uprights rattling about, by decent i mean maintained and quick but as you say the owners are either retired or largely inactive. So its either talk riders out on track with laydown hooligans or ask their pride and joys to be handed over to laydown hooligans......either way the answers won't be positive. 

[SPEEDY69]

On 7/1/2025 at 11:08 AM, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

The track was a disgrace, the pits were a mess, the changing rooms were dirty etc

Basically that everything about Birmingham wasn't fit for top level speedway

He should have tried Mildenhall or Iwade back in the 90s, 'changing room' at the latter was a 50s caravan with no shower or curtains. Has he not ridden some of the dog awful tracks they have in the Danish league 😁

Edited July 4, 2025 by SPEEDY69

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

16 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Can think of maybe half a dozen decent uprights rattling about, by decent i mean maintained and quick but as you say the owners are either retired or largely inactive. So its either talk riders out on track with laydown hooligans or ask their pride and joys to be handed over to laydown hooligans......either way the answers won't be positive. 

I’ve got 4 well maintained raceable uprights 1 jap, 1 weslake  and 2 GMs and you’re right I wouldn’t hand them over to anyone, cost too much to get to that standard and if anyone is going to blow them up or bend them it’s going to be me and I think that’s pretty much the stance of the majority of owners 

[SPEEDY69]

2 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

I have debating these very questions for a while now and there was a piece in the speedway star last week prompted by me about the modern bikes in the modern era are not going any faster than the bikes of by gone years, I was using the race times at Sheffield as an example, the times last night at Sheffield were around the 61-63 seconds mark which is the same times as Hans Nielsen and Shaun Moran at the same track in the 80s, now track surfaces, tyres and silencers are a factor but the fact remains we are going no faster despite the £1000s thrown at it, what is going faster is the back wheel speed but the bike speed is roughly the same, an interesting video to watch is Dan bewley riding a godden at Workington when he out with another rider on his modern laydown and how the godden pulls better out of start to first corner, when they were going round you can here the godden struggling for revs coming off the corners but holding its own speed wise but Dan is on an untuned engine with probably the wrong gearing which eventually blows up, so imagine if it was a tuned up godden with the right gearing ? 

 

I think that's a great question.  I've no doubt that Nielsen would still beat almost all the current riders, as he did back in the 80s/90s, particularly in the UK.  It's called speedway but plenty of people are very successful with ultimately 'slower' machines.  It's about talent/skill and getting the most out of what you're riding - the dream of being world champion by having the quickest bike is just that, a dream.

Edited July 4, 2025 by SPEEDY69

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

54 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I think that's a great question.  I've no doubt that Nielsen would still beat almost all the current riders, as he did back in the 80s/90s, particularly in the UK.  It's called speedway but plenty of people are very successful with ultimately 'slower' machines.  It's about talent/skill and getting the most out of what you're riding - the dream of being world champion by having the quickest bike is just that, a dream.

Imo the extra couple of 1000revs generated by the modern bike is just wasted and is doing nothing more than wearing tyres, engines and tracks out quicker while not generating any more forward momentum and I believe making the bikes more dangerous when they do encounter a rut or bump or deep dirt,a chat with one of my friends who I won’t name says he believes the bikes are quicker down the straights and definitely into the corners but slower round the corners because they have to scrub the speed off that they have generated going into the corners therefore the overall the same, so the bikes are going faster in actual speed but not faster over a lap 

Edited July 4, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[marko]

I like to think the stars of yesterday were better all round motorcyclists than those of today, (bar a few exceptions) certainly were more prepared to race tracks which were far from perfect, and still rode them to a high standard.

I would have loved to have seen Darcy Ward on an upright though, I think that kid would have been even better.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 minute ago, marko said:

I like to think the stars of yesterday were better all round motorcyclists than those of today, (bar a few exceptions) certainly were more prepared to race tracks which were far from perfect, and still rode them to a high standard.

I would have loved to have seen Darcy Ward on an upright though, I think that kid would have been even better.

I don’t believe riders of the past were any better motorcyclists than today’s riders, what was different especially in the 70s was you would often find riders competing in grasstrack trials,scrambling and hill climbs events etc on a Sunday afternoon where as now they are riding in Poland 

[Sings4Speedway]

A nice recent comparison would have been the Ed Kennett on an upright round IOW vs himself on a laydown BUT the most recent champs was wet and reduced to 3 laps plus i can't find the times anywhere for comparisons grrr

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

16 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

A nice recent comparison would have been the Ed Kennett on an upright round IOW vs himself on a laydown BUT the most recent champs was wet and reduced to 3 laps plus i can't find the times anywhere for comparisons grrr

It’s alway reduced to 3 laps for the uprights on the iow because we are all a bit older and we ain’t as fit as we used to be and it’s a big old track 😂

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I think that's a great question.  I've no doubt that Nielsen would still beat almost all the current riders, as he did back in the 80s/90s.  It's called speedway but plenty of people are very successful with ultimately 'slower' machines.  It's about talent/skill and getting the most out of what you're riding - the dream of being world champion by having the quickest bike is just that, a dream.

When my lad rode cycle Speedway the advice he got, from those who had lots of experience, was...

"You don't have to be the fastest to win, you just have to be fast enough"...

Good advice....

Many a trophy was won by getting to bend one first, and then going "fast enough", on the right line, to mean those faster had to try and go around..

With some "tough moves" required now and again.....

He used one of the clubs' bikes when some he rode against had several hundreds pounds of bike..

With tyres changed from the basic model to more expensive ones...

Some even had their names on the wheel rims and frame...

Sound familiar?...  

Edited July 4, 2025 by mikebv

[Come on the Skipper]

Ben Barker out for a while after having his appendix out. It’s on his Facebook page.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

15 minutes ago, Come on the Skipper said:

Ben Barker out for a while after having his appendix out. It’s on his Facebook page.

Andy Grahame and Arthur browning are available, it’s getting that desperate 

Edited July 4, 2025 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[S4r4h]

42 minutes ago, Come on the Skipper said:

Ben Barker out for a while after having his appendix out. It’s on his Facebook page.

Oh for goodness sake! Well done to Ben for even giving it a go yesterday at Sheffield. I should imagine appendicitis does just not appear from bouncing along the fence at Sheffield one summer evening. So well done for the points he scored. I hope he has a good recovery.

So, Andy and Arthur aside, who is available to replace Ben? Eddie Kennett up to anything? Lol.

Edited July 4, 2025 by S4r4h
Spacing

[tonyd]

53 minutes ago, Come on the Skipper said:

Ben Barker out for a while after having his appendix out. It’s on his Facebook page.

If Birmingham didn't have any bad luck you wouldn't have any luck at all

[JackTheBrummie]

21 minutes ago, S4r4h said:

Oh for goodness sake! Well done to Ben for even giving it a go yesterday at Sheffield. I should imagine appendicitis does just not appear from bouncing along the fence at Sheffield one summer evening. So well done for the points he scored. I hope he has a good recovery.

So, Andy and Arthur aside, who is available to replace Ben? Eddie Kennett up to anything? Lol.

Don't think there will be a fat lot to choose from, assume we'll get an R/R for a little bit 

[SuperStarsFan91]

2 minutes ago, JackTheBrummie said:

Don't think there will be a fat lot to choose from, assume we'll get an R/R for a little bit 

You can’t do R/R for Barker as he’s at reserve, you’ll have to use guests... and with his average being 3.65 the guest choices won’t be that great