StevePark Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 4 hours ago, TheWellBehavedWorrall said: No, no, no. Don’t hide behind ”the Speedway Star said”. In no version of this universe is Leon Flint’s home average near 9, never mind 10. You’re wrong. Bonus points are paid figures that are used informally in reporting, but aren’t official race points and bear no impact on the match scores, nor a rider’s average. I can only assume your reference to them is an attempt at clutching at straws for Flint. Which is why I’ll once again ask, since you avoided it: if you’re not blaming the track staff, what exactly is your point? 1 hour ago, TheWellBehavedWorrall said: No one said bonus points are meaningless or aren’t included in CMAs. Can we cut out all this nonsense and get back to the original point? He said Flint had a home average of 10.67 which is complete fabrication. He couldn’t even get his maximum correct; it was paid, not full. A post littered with incorrect information and odd observations, like his bike being dirty and him being gutted. Eh??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, TheWellBehavedWorrall said: No one said bonus points are meaningless or aren’t included in CMAs. Can we cut out all this nonsense and get back to the original point? He said Flint had a home average of 10.67 which is complete fabrication. He couldn’t even get his maximum correct; it was paid, not full. A post littered with incorrect information and odd observations, like his bike being dirty and him being gutted. As SharpenRake said the speedway star calculation does not include the scottish cup so therefore only 3 home meetings, as Flint got one of his lower scores against Poole then not including the scottish cup meeting must put his home average up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 18 hours ago, SharpenRake said: I've watched the BSN coverage of this meeting and must say it was very worthwhile as you get a different perspective and learn things that you don't see or hear from watching at the stadium. A few examples: Leon Flint and his bike were caked in wet shale after his first two rides. There was what appeared to be the equivalent of at least two bucketloads in a heap next to his bike in the pits. Ironically, this thread was started by shaleshifter! Leon Flint used the same set-up as his last meeting at Ashfield when he scored a 15 point maximum. Despite this, his bike felt flat and things weren't helped by the amount of shale caking him and his bike. He changed bike for his 3rd and 4th ride and it felt more comfortable to ride. Leon Flint was clearly gutted. Other Glasgow riders also had issues. This isn't a criticism of the track staff but if you remember there were some heavy showers that week. i've also been catching up with the Speedway Star who continue to provide accurate Calculated Match Averages (CMA) which include Championship, BSN Series and Knock-out Cup matches. As at 6 June 2025 Leon Flint's average was 8.00 with a Home average of 10.67 and Away average of 6.80. Dan Thompson's CMA was 10.00; Chris Harris 9.21 and Kyle Howarth 8.97. Just thought this would be of interest compared to some of the other posts that have appeared. Do not want to get involved in the squabbling but Leon Flint has been around a while now and seems unable to get set-up rights far too often. Personally think he has reached his level 3rd Heatleader/ second string in Championship.Dont think he has the backing to do the amount of meetings he is trying to fit in. Track is the same for everybody. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 3 hours ago, arnieg said: Of course CMAs include bonus points and they have going back 50 plus years. Bonus points are not meaningless as you can't get one without beating an opponent, therefore in some respects and in some contexts can be regarded as a better measure than GSAs of a rider's worth to his team. While bonus points are being briefly discussed its always bothered me that a rider finishing 3rd in a 3-3 gets a bonus point. Yes on a 5-1 where both opposition riders have been beaten but why award a point for a 3-3 when a rider could finish 3rd in a 4-2 heat and not be awarded a bonus point? Ultimately both situations an opposition rider has finished ahead but its beneficial for the 3rd placed rider if his team doesn't win the heat/get a heat advantage. Any stat people out there know how many bonus points had to be paid out last season? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazc Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Wow. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 15 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: While bonus points are being briefly discussed its always bothered me that a rider finishing 3rd in a 3-3 gets a bonus point. Yes on a 5-1 where both opposition riders have been beaten but why award a point for a 3-3 when a rider could finish 3rd in a 4-2 heat and not be awarded a bonus point? Ultimately both situations an opposition rider has finished ahead but its beneficial for the 3rd placed rider if his team doesn't win the heat/get a heat advantage. Any stat people out there know how many bonus points had to be paid out last season? Whether or not you beat your team mate is largely irrelevant. The logical way to do it is: 2 pts for a win or a paid win 1 pt for second behind opponent 1 for third behind team mate or third in a 4-2 0 pts for last or third in a 1-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neila Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Richard Lawson doesn't think bonus points are worthless, he put the brakes on big style in the 1st race at Poole on Wednesday to get one 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 11 minutes ago, Neila said: Richard Lawson doesn't think bonus points are worthless, he put the brakes on big style in the 1st race at Poole on Wednesday to get one That was just to get his official July GSA down!!😃 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 22 minutes ago, Neila said: Richard Lawson doesn't think bonus points are worthless, he put the brakes on big style in the 1st race at Poole on Wednesday to get one He is smart being doing it for years now.We all know why. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpenRake Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, foreverblue said: As SharpenRake said the speedway star calculation does not include the scottish cup so therefore only 3 home meetings, as Flint got one of his lower scores against Poole then not including the scottish cup meeting must put his home average up. Correct and it's 10.67 , when rounded up. Edited June 13 by SharpenRake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 46 minutes ago, Fromafar said: He is smart being doing it for years now.We all know why. Not for the team mate behind him who ends up with an overinflated average as a result. Ironic that engineering his average to stay in employment could be at the expense of someone else being out of employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWellBehavedWorrall Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, StevePark said: Eh??? Hi Steve. Has something confused you? You appear to be suggesting the comment ”bonus points are used informally in reporting” - which they are, FYI, as they have no impact on the match result - somehow contradicts the my statement that bonus points aren’t meaningless. Being used informally does not correlate to being meaningless. Keep up. 2 hours ago, foreverblue said: As SharpenRake said the speedway star calculation does not include the scottish cup so therefore only 3 home meetings, as Flint got one of his lower scores against Poole then not including the scottish cup meeting must put his home average up. Okay, let’s exclude the Scottish Cup meetings, rendering his three home scorers as 8+1, 14+1 and 5+1. That generates an average of around 9.00, not 10.67. It is utterly bizarre that someone can suggest otherwise - also known as being wrong - while pedalling excuses about the rider being dirty, covered in mud, gutted or upset and the response? Defend him at all costs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWellBehavedWorrall Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 (edited) 50 minutes ago, SharpenRake said: Correct and it's 10.67 , when rounded up. He’ll be up at 11.50 by the time we’ve had Plymouth and Scunthorpe at Ashfield. Assuming he doesn’t get dirty. Assuming he isn’t gutted. Assuming the track staff do their job. My personal favourite though, was this: “things weren’t helped by the amount of shale caking him and his bike”.😂😂😂 Edited June 13 by TheWellBehavedWorrall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWellBehavedWorrall Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, Fromafar said: Do not want to get involved in the squabbling but Leon Flint has been around a while now and seems unable to get set-up rights far too often. Personally think he has reached his level 3rd Heatleader/ second string in Championship.Dont think he has the backing to do the amount of meetings he is trying to fit in. Track is the same for everybody. Couldn’t agree more. Well said, unlike the post you quoted which was filled with complete nonsense, if we’re being honest. Your last point about the track being the same for everyone is universally correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelinho Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Excluding the Scottish Cup, and the Poole match (because the publication deadline was probably before that match), Leon scored (including bonus points) 24 points from 9 rides. That's an average of 10.67. Also, this thread, wow. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWellBehavedWorrall Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 52 minutes ago, Noelinho said: Excluding the Scottish Cup, and the Poole match (because the publication deadline was probably before that match), Leon scored (including bonus points) 24 points from 9 rides. That's an average of 10.67. Also, this thread, wow. So that buffoon attempted to use Flint’s home average across just two meetings as basis to support his point?😂 Brilliant. A grown adult tells us he’s watched the meeting back and given us some of the most child-like observations I’ve ever heard, including ”Leon Flint and his bike were caked in shale”, ”Leon Flint was gutted” and ”remember there were heavy showers that week”. He then attempts to use an average across two - yes, two - home meetings to support his point. All regarding a rider who regularly let the club down last season and has largely continued that trend this season. What a place this forum is. Tribal loyalty supersedes sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWellBehavedWorrall Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 @SharpenRake do you want to have a word with the track staff before the Plymouth meeting, or will I? This can’t continue for poor Leon, getting ”caked in shale” when everyone else isn’t. It can’t go on. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 4 hours ago, MD said: Not for the team mate behind him who ends up with an overinflated average as a result. Ironic that engineering his average to stay in employment could be at the expense of someone else being out of employment. Smarter than the Team mate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpenRake Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 On 6/12/2025 at 5:09 PM, SharpenRake said: I've watched the BSN coverage of this meeting and must say it was very worthwhile as you get a different perspective and learn things that you don't see or hear from watching at the stadium. A few examples: Leon Flint and his bike were caked in wet shale after his first two rides. There was what appeared to be the equivalent of at least two bucketloads in a heap next to his bike in the pits. Ironically, this thread was started by shaleshifter! Leon Flint used the same set-up as his last meeting at Ashfield when he scored a 15 point maximum. Despite this, his bike felt flat and things weren't helped by the amount of shale caking him and his bike. He changed bike for his 3rd and 4th ride and it felt more comfortable to ride. Leon Flint was clearly gutted. Other Glasgow riders also had issues. This isn't a criticism of the track staff but if you remember there were some heavy showers that week. i've also been catching up with the Speedway Star who continue to provide accurate Calculated Match Averages (CMA) which include Championship, BSN Series and Knock-out Cup matches. As at 6 June 2025 Leon Flint's average was 8.00 with a Home average of 10.67 and Away average of 6.80. Dan Thompson's CMA was 10.00; Chris Harris 9.21 and Kyle Howarth 8.97. Just thought this would be of interest compared to some of the other posts that have appeared. Just thought I'd reiterate the above as various comments have been made some of which were in response to this post and others in response to comments about the comments. I shall correct one sentence and apologise for stating Leon Flint scored a 15 point maximum when in fact he only got a 15 point paid maximum. Me bad! Everything else is what I observed from watching the BSN recording or in respect of the Speedway Star factually correct. How people interpret what I've posted is up to them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWellBehavedWorrall Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 19 minutes ago, SharpenRake said: Just thought I'd reiterate the above as various comments have been made some of which were in response to this post and others in response to comments about the comments. I shall correct one sentence and apologise for stating Leon Flint scored a 15 point maximum when in fact he only got a 15 point paid maximum. Me bad! Everything else is what I observed from watching the BSN recording or in respect of the Speedway Star factually correct. How people interpret what I've posted is up to them. 😂😂😂 Let’s ignore the several comments that I’ve already ridiculed - ”Leon was gutted” and ”things weren’t helped by the amount of shale caking him and his bike” - and let’s point out another. You said he changed his bike and felt comfortable, including in his fourth ride. What happened in his fourth ride? He was on the arse end of a shock 5-1 against Edwards and Starke.😂 Honestly wee man. Stop talking. You’re making a fool out of yourself.😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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