Belle Vue v Ipswich Monday 4th August Live on TV

[Baldyman]

15 hours ago, Gavan said:

You can’t say this to Belle Vue fans they can’t accept it 

We all know Belle Vue is the best track in the country 

Many passes at Belle Vue are simply the home riders going out in the dirt and blasting round the outside … yes it’s fast it looks good but it isn’t skillful …..the best races (British final last race) will happen at Belle Vue because the track lends itself to great racing 

I diner need prefer the technical aspect and seeing top riders ride all the different tracks

Watch on you tube Loram v Karlsson brothers at Monmore Green or Eastbourne v Poole in 1999 and tell me they aren’t fantastic races/meetings by world class riders who could ride all sorts of tracks not just ones that need fast bikes 

As much as I want Kurtz to win the world title I wonder if riders like him or even Zmarzlik would have ever coped with those tracks and not just the rocket ship big tracks abroad today 

I saw an interview with Todd Wiltshire and he said the most talented riders he had ever seen was Mark Loram Joe Screen and Andrew Silver around Arena Essex… Wiltshire said the skill levels were off the charts 

I expect Belle Vue to win by 14-16 and I hope there is some good racing …. Though I’m expecting race updates to read about ‘Witches make the start before (insert any Belle Vue rider) goes around them on bends 3-4”….. to me I prefer 2 riders battling and skill required for the overtake 

But yes the NSS is the best track gives the best racing …. But accept that other tracks do too 

Don't know if you have seen it,, there is a race between Loram and Kelly Moran on a tiny USA track,, give it a look if you can,, 2 skillfull riders passing and repassing for fun on what would be classed as a technical track here

[PhilTheAce]

there are some unbelievable racing on small tracks, wolves use to be brilliant, oxford when prepped right is fantastic, but theres the word, prepped right, more ofted than not it isnt prepped for racing sadly.

[bellevueace]

7 hours ago, mikebv said:

I much prefer those "technical" tracks where riders can ride sideways into the bends, blocking the track almost completely, meaning the rider behind has to follow exactly the same line...

With him then hoping the rider in front gets some extra grip and gets fired "right" towards the fence, meaning a pass may then take place...

The anticipation of waiting for some passing after bend two, lap one, for sometimes 15 heats in a row is simply breathtaking...

To be honest, I am not sure the promoters of Redcar, Worky, Glasgow, Scunthorpe and the NSS know how boring all the passing that takes place there can be....

Edit. Forgot to mention the blue groove that can also appear on the "technical" tracks. For me, that "Azure Blue" hue adds colour and excitement to the event given all the riders use their throttle skills to constantly ride over it, never moving off it, and all skillfully keeping the same distance apart from each other for the entire race.....

Strange how some complain theres a lot of passing then complain if the meeting isnt up to normal standards. I think fans of the technical (sorry trick) tracks in a lot of cases are just trying to justify their own tracks shortcomings for good racing. A racetrack isnt a racetrack if the only passing you get is when the rider in front makes a mistake otherwise its sit on the white line and job done. Some must have thought Birmingham last night was a great meeting,  Hyde Road, NSS, or Kirky Lane no brainer isnt it?

[bellevueace]

4 hours ago, Gavan said:

Hit the nail on the head

Belle Vue fans are spoilt by their track they forget that there has never been a track in the uk as good and now feel every speedway meeting should have 20 passes

Go watch Emil in heat 10 against Leicester recently …. That’s skill on a bike and not just winding it on

I was brought up on speedway at Hyde Road, then we had Kirky Lane, now the NSS, ive seen good meetings and bad at all three, i remember Kings Lynn and Cradley producing great racing along with smaller tracks like Wimbledon, Newport (Somerton Park), Monmore Green and even Crayford, there was no bickering about racing on different tracks then, obviously pre internet, i think a contributing factor today are the modern machines are more geared for the bigger faster tracks, no doubt if Mondays meeting doesnt produce good racing people will be critical of that sometimes you cant win too much racing or not enough, either way i dont think the skill of the riders can be questioned. 

[mikebv]

23 minutes ago, bellevueace said:

Strange how some complain theres a lot of passing then complain if the meeting isnt up to normal standards. I think fans of the technical (sorry trick) tracks in a lot of cases are just trying to justify their own tracks shortcomings for good racing. A racetrack isnt a racetrack if the only passing you get is when the rider in front makes a mistake otherwise its sit on the white line and job done. Some must have thought Birmingham last night was a great meeting,  Hyde Road, NSS, or Kirky Lane no brainer isnt it?

Kirky Lane delivered some very good racing until Air Fences came in and took away the wider outside run that the likes of Screen, Ott, Ermolenko, Adams, Hamill, Crump, Nielsen, Trick etc etc all used to great effect...

It was designed as a "small track that rode like a big one", with very wide bends for its overall size..

When the Air Fences came in, it then became very much "standard UK fayre", of fill your programme in after bend three, lap one...

Monmore went a similar way after they reconfigured the bend two fence to make the entry on to the track.. ,

As the equipment changed, these tracks of those shapes sadly didn't deliver the same level of entertainment that they once did...

Anyone watching on TV would keep far more interested I would think if the racing had plenty of passing, rather than reinforcing the view that so many hold of whoever gets out of the start first always wins, no matter how close the rider is behind for four laps..

The devoted fans may love watching tight technical battles but the vast majority of any Motorsport followers, (and commentators), are very much in it for the passing that takes place, and the excitement it generates...

Hence sporting bodies like F1 (a sport whose reputation was 100% "follow the leader"),  keep making restrictions and changes to car specs to try and keep racing closer and more competitive, and use "gadgets" like DRS used to increase passing opportunities...

Watching Kurtz, Lambert, BZ, Bewley, Doyle, and Emil in particular, all fly around the NSS, passing rivals just inches from the fence at high speed, is surely the ultimate in bravery and skill on a Speedway bike, and why people go to watch the sport? 

[YeOldPitGate]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Kirky Lane delivered some very good racing until Air Fences came in and took away the wider outside run that the likes of Screen, Ott, Ermolenko, Adams, Hamill, Crump, Nielsen, Trick etc etc all used to great effect...

It was designed as a "small track that rode like a big one", with very wide bends for its overall size..

When the Air Fences came in, it then became very much "standard UK fayre", of fill your programme in after bend three, lap one...

Monmore went a similar way after they reconfigured the bend two fence to make the entry on to the track.. ,

As the equipment changed, these tracks of those shapes sadly didn't deliver the same level of entertainment that they once did...

Anyone watching on TV would keep far more interested I would think if the racing had plenty of passing, rather than reinforcing the view that so many hold of whoever gets out of the start first always wins, no matter how close the rider is behind for four laps..

The devoted fans may love watching tight technical battles but the vast majority of any Motorsport followers, (and commentators), are very much in it for the passing that takes place, and the excitement it generates...

Hence sporting bodies like F1 (a sport whose reputation was 100% "follow the leader"),  keep making restrictions and changes to car specs to try and keep racing closer and more competitive, and use "gadgets" like DRS used to increase passing opportunities...

Watching Kurtz, Lambert, BZ, Bewley, Doyle, and Emil in particular, all fly around the NSS, passing rivals just inches from the fence at high speed, is surely the ultimate in bravery and skill on a Speedway bike, and why people go to watch the sport? 

What a feast of legends in that first sentence Mike how we were spoiled in the past with such great riders en masse.

[Gavan]

7 hours ago, gjcone44 said:

so your saying you dont need skill or track craft to ride Bellevue. so Ipswich riders struggle at Bellevue because they are too skill full. 🤣 they need too dumb themselves down then.🤪

You don’t need as much skill to ride Belle Vue than most other tracks …. Fast bikes and balls of steel

What’s more skillful ….. Kurtz riding the fence on fast bikes to blast round someone … or Loram … Ward …. Screen using inside and outside to pick riders off at Arena or Eastbourne??

NSS is more spectacular to watch absolutely but the other requires more skill as a rider 

[YeOldPitGate]

5 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Don't know if you have seen it,, there is a race between Loram and Kelly Moran on a tiny USA track,, give it a look if you can,, 2 skillfull riders passing and repassing for fun on what would be classed as a technical track here

Do you have a link by any chance ?

[PhilTheAce]

12 hours ago, Gavan said:

You don’t need as much skill to ride Belle Vue than most other tracks …. Fast bikes and balls of steel

What’s more skillful ….. Kurtz riding the fence on fast bikes to blast round someone … or Loram … Ward …. Screen using inside and outside to pick riders off at Arena or Eastbourne??

NSS is more spectacular to watch absolutely but the other requires more skill as a rider 

actually i have to disagree with you massively  

 

what dan and brady do so good which makes them fast is keeping the wheels in line and the bike as straight as they can round the bend, not easy to do, requires such a skill.

 

i look at most riders and they are making multiple turning actions round the bend especially exiting the bend and they lose all speed. its a different bit of skill but its a skill nevertheless 

[SPEEDY69]

18 hours ago, ouch said:

So now and for the last decade or more we have had no really great riders that can pass. Not even Crump was immune to dropping points on gate’n’go tracks if he missed the gate.

Instead of making tracks so only really great riders can (possibly) pass, why not make it so the not so great riders can pass and we can all be entertained?

Ok, I'll bite.  Not sure how long you've watched speedway but it's never been all about the number of passes which I've found entertaining.  Of course races (before you assume I mean all, I mean some, which I can't quantify) are won from the gate, that's always been so, nothing new there.  As a previous poster said, watching Bewley/Kurtz getting beaten to the first turn but then passing someone at the NSS is not really entertaining, it's expected.  Watching Bewley pass two riders at Ipswich around one bend was entertaining, it wasn't expected.  Equally, watching Louis/Loram/Nicholls/Howe busting a gut to pass someone at Ipswich but sometimes not pulling it off is also entertaining, but no pass was made.  This is called speedway.

Edited yesterday at 08:14 AM by SPEEDY69

[Roger Jacobs]

On 7/28/2025 at 11:17 PM, Gavan said:

<SNIP>

I saw an interview with Todd Wiltshire and he said the most talented riders he had ever seen was Mark Loram Joe Screen and Andrew Silver around Arena Essex… Wiltshire said the skill levels were off the charts 

<SNIP>

I seem to recall that Wiltshire was rather good at Arena.  Annoyingly, he was very good at Foxhall.

A classy rider.   It got me thinking about a modern equivalent ... among the Aussies it would have to be Fricke, who is proving to be an intelligent and measured racer.

[Gavan]

11 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Ok, I'll bite.  Not sure how long you've watched speedway but it's never been all about the number of passes which I've found entertaining.  Of course races (before you assume I mean all, I mean some, which I can't quantify) are won from the gate, that's always been so, nothing new there.  As a previous poster said, watching Bewley/Kurtz getting beaten to the first turn but then passing someone at the NSS is not really entertaining, it's expected.  Watching Bewley pass two riders at Ipswich around one bend was entertaining, it wasn't expected.  Equally, watching Louis/Loram/Nicholls/Howe busting a gut to pass someone at Ipswich but sometimes not pulling it off is also entertaining, but no pass was made.  This is called speedway.

As you can see AceBelle has laughed at you which shows the kind of people you are dealing with … basically they will never understand …. They just see their big fast track and that to them is speedway 

I watched Bewley at Foxhall last season line up and pass Emil then a lap later the same to Ellis … fantastic skillful riding showing that he is supremely talented

What these Belle Vue fans don’t understand is that we are all saying it’s the best racetrack in the country by some way ….. but they are totally blinkered to the fact other tracks that aren’t as fast produce good racing as well 

What’s more entertaining….. a rider taking 4 laps to pass one or two opposing riders by using track craft and going inside and out ….. or just blasting round the boards or cutting back making a long straight …. Not much in it I would say 

Watch Mark Loram 1999 Swedish Grand Prix on a big track using all manner of lines …. Then watch him at Wolves using all manner of lines to spilt the Karlsson brothers….. 2 totally different tracks but the skill set of the rider makes both compelling viewing 

To many riders today are simply throttle jockeys who can’t handle different tracks and that’s not a dig at Belle Vue riders that’s around the world … I’m not sure how Zmarzlik or even Kurtz would cope at Eastbourne …. Bewley i feel is more adaptable ….. Bewley has said to me personally he loves riding at Ipswich 

[Gavan]

2 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

I seem to recall that Wiltshire was rather good at Arena.  Annoyingly, he was very good at Foxhall.

A classy rider.   It got me thinking about a modern equivalent ... among the Aussies it would have to be Fricke, who is proving to be an intelligent and measured racer.

Todd was a great rider could have achieved more if it wasn’t for injury 

But if you find the interview he stars how much he admired those 3 riders and how they rode Arena was a masterclass

Fricke is an awesome rider but seems to nice a bit like Adams …… Adams was as good if not better than Crump in league racing but at world championship level Crump could step up and Adams couldn’t……. Similar with Fricke and Kurtz 

[gjcone44]

7 minutes ago, Gavan said:

Todd was a great rider could have achieved more if it wasn’t for injury 

But if you find the interview he stars how much he admired those 3 riders and how they rode Arena was a masterclass

Fricke is an awesome rider but seems to nice a bit like Adams …… Adams was as good if not better than Crump in league racing but at world championship level Crump could step up and Adams couldn’t……. Similar with Fricke and Kurtz 

yes Kurtz needs to step it up a bit languishing in 2nd place. especially in his 1st year 

[Gavan]

18 minutes ago, gjcone44 said:

yes Kurtz needs to step it up a bit languishing in 2nd place. especially in his 1st year 

You win the award for not reading posts properly 

Said Adams was too nice at world level and crump was better

Said Fricke and Kurtz similar… Fricke too nice while Kurtz is better at world level 

If you want to have a pop probably wise to understand and read posts properly 

[tellboy]

27 minutes ago, Gavan said:

 

What’s more entertaining….. a rider taking 4 laps to pass one or two opposing riders by using track craft and going inside and out ….. or just blasting round the boards or cutting back making a long straight …. Not much in it I would say 

 

You are right,there isn't anything in it at all.The difference that sets these tracks apart are that you will see many races like it at Belle Vue as opposed to an odd few at many other tracks.So the reason imo that Belle Vue is better is because you are seeing many more good races.

[ouch]

12 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Ok, I'll bite.  Not sure how long you've watched speedway but it's never been all about the number of passes which I've found entertaining.  Of course races (before you assume I mean all, I mean some, which I can't quantify) are won from the gate, that's always been so, nothing new there.  As a previous poster said, watching Bewley/Kurtz getting beaten to the first turn but then passing someone at the NSS is not really entertaining, it's expected.  Watching Bewley pass two riders at Ipswich around one bend was entertaining, it wasn't expected.  Equally, watching Louis/Loram/Nicholls/Howe busting a gut to pass someone at Ipswich but sometimes not pulling it off is also entertaining, but no pass was made.  This is called speedway.

I’ve watched speedway for 52 years, all over the UK & Europe. 

I don’t expect Dan or Brady to win and often they don’t. The GP’s in Manchester highlighted this with Dan. I didn’t expect him to pass Holder in the LCQ but when he did, I and most of the stadium were exhilarated. 

There is a big difference between riders busting a gut and not getting by due to the skill & speed of the rider in front and those who cannot pass due to the track they have to work with. The latter frustrates the hell out of me to the point I no longer attend speedway other than that at the NSS. I check in on updates and watch the Dmax highlights show and I’m of the opinion I’m not missing out attending only 30 meetings a year instead of 60-80 as I previously did. 

I’m in the British Final/GP’s NSS type race camp and just don’t like (and never have) gate’n’go/follow the leader, whatever you want to call in type speedway but appreciate that some do. 

The updates site details meetings since 2005 involving Loram, Screen & Ward at Eastbourne, Lakeside etc. I recommend taking a look as the comments are incredibly similar to today’s meetings despite the skill of these riders.  

[Aries]

27 minutes ago, tellboy said:

You are right,there isn't anything in it at all.The difference that sets these tracks apart are that you will see many races like it at Belle Vue as opposed to an odd few at many other tracks.So the reason imo that Belle Vue is better is because you are seeing many more good races.

The majority of those passes though you can spot coming a mile off so I understand the point some are making.

[Gavan]

8 minutes ago, ouch said:

I’ve watched speedway for 52 years, all over the UK & Europe. 

I don’t expect Dan or Brady to win and often they don’t. The GP’s in Manchester highlighted this with Dan. I didn’t expect him to pass Holder in the LCQ but when he did, I and most of the stadium were exhilarated. 

There is a big difference between riders busting a gut and not getting by due to the skill & speed of the rider in front and those who cannot pass due to the track they have to work with. The latter frustrates the hell out of me to the point I no longer attend speedway other than that at the NSS. I check in on updates and watch the Dmax highlights show and I’m of the opinion I’m not missing out attending only 30 meetings a year instead of 60-80 as I previously did. 

I’m in the British Final/GP’s NSS type race camp and just don’t like (and never have) gate’n’go/follow the leader, whatever you want to call in type speedway but appreciate that some do. 

The updates site details meetings since 2005 involving Loram, Screen & Ward at Eastbourne, Lakeside etc. I recommend taking a look as the comments are incredibly similar to today’s meetings despite the skill of these riders.  

So I’m assuming you never watched speedway before 2016?

Please tell me how many tracks were like the NSS before 2016 in the uk?

None is the answer 

Ive watched speedway since 1981 and with the exception of Bradford and a lesser extent Peterborough nothing comes close to the NSS

You summed it up perfectly saying you no longer attend or watch speedway apart from at the NSS ….. sorry that is a shocking attitude to have if you can’t appreciate the other tracks in the UK and blinkered to the extreme 

You have the best track we aren’t disagreeing and the best races will be at your track more often than not … but I get to see the skills of Doyle and Emil every week taking opponents from the back and it’s sensational at times just like watching Bewley and Kurtz at your place … faster isn’t better always 

So please tell me why you went to speedway before 2016 as let’s be honest the racing you would have seen was nowhere near what your track now provides so why didn’t you stop going ???

You come across spoilt and entitled 

[GeneralMelchett]

1 hour ago, Roger Jacobs said:

I seem to recall that Wiltshire was rather good at Arena.  Annoyingly, he was very good at Foxhall.

A classy rider.   It got me thinking about a modern equivalent ... among the Aussies it would have to be Fricke, who is proving to be an intelligent and measured racer.

Annoyingly Todd was just very good! 

You raised a point about Arena - seeing as it was my old home track and I saw NL and top tier speedway there. There were lots of top riders who used to slag the place off (plenty of fans too) - often they didn't do that well there - mainly cos they were mentally defeated by the place before they even rode a lap. But it was always worth noting that top riders would turn up and often do very well. Leigh Adams was classic example - i was at his first ever visit to Arena in 1989 for Poole - first race he came a cropper - track probably too tight given it was his first UK season and he was used to Poole and Aussie tracks - a few years later he was our no 1 and almost unbeatable there!

Riders like Loram were a pleasure to watch wherever they rode, but also at Arena, cos they attacked the track and never knew when they were beaten. PK was another great rider who rode pretty much any track in front of him, seem to recall they even named part of track after him at Monmore, he would do the same at Arena inside pass master as was Leigh Lanham.

A good race is a good race no matter what track you are at. That said that british final heat at the NSS is the type of race we all crave seeing! No argument from me there!