Super Heat - Why its not right!!

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

An honourable principle to provide an exciting crescendo to a meeting and give fans an extra race in order to decide a winner

However.....

It is flawed by the fact that it means teams score what could be valuable match points that are not available to all competitors 

It cannot be right that teams drawing meetings can ultimately earn more points

In a league scenario much tighter than this seasons cut and dried top 4 it could easily decide who qualifies for the play offs

Example

Team A has finished on 40 points and sit in 3rd place with a healthy race points advantage over those below

Teams B and C are on 39 and 36 points respectively with a home and away double between them remaining

So Team A are safely in the play offs right? Whatever combination of win lose draw between B and C it would be impossible to split the 5 points and see both overhaul Team A

Hold my beer - here comes the super heat!!

2 draws later and 5 match points becomes 7 seeing Team A dumped from the play off positions 

 

[IainB]

It's not something I can get too excited about either way tbh... on the one hand I do enjoy an extra heat with pretty high stakes, a whole league point... but on the other hand it seems a pretty easy way to get a league point with the one race that normally would take 15 to achieve and is obviously stacked in favour of the team that has 2 big guns.

On balance, it's probably not something the sport "needed"

Edited yesterday at 12:47 PM by IainB

[Gambo]

29 minutes ago, IainB said:

It's not something I can't get too excited about either way tbh... on the one hand I do enjoy an extra heat with pretty high stakes, a whole league point... but on the other hand it seems a pretty easy way to get a league point with the one race that normally would take 15 to achieve and is obviously stacked in favour of the team that has 2 big guns.

On balance, it's probably not something the sport "needed"

It has been proposed before, by myself and others, that the riders in Heat 15 would not be eligible for a Super Heat. That would negate a 2 x Big Guns team's advantage.

[IainB]

10 minutes ago, Gambo said:

It has been proposed before, by myself and others, that the riders in Heat 15 would not be eligible for a Super Heat. That would negate a 2 x Big Guns team's advantage.

Yes, I'm one of those that have proposed it. That then does at least then make it more of a "team" effort.

[LisaColette]

18 minutes ago, Gambo said:

It has been proposed before, by myself and others, that the riders in Heat 15 would not be eligible for a Super Heat. That would negate a 2 x Big Guns team's advantage.

Potentially they could just save them for the super heat instead of having them in H15. I guess it depends what result is needed for a superheat at the time. 

Personally I don't mind a superheat, reason we got though to BSN SFs. Otherwise it would have been Scunthorpe. 🤷‍♀️😄

[Teromaafan]

42 minutes ago, LisaColette said:

Potentially they could just save them for the super heat instead of having them in H15. I guess it depends what result is needed for a superheat at the time. 

Personally I don't mind a superheat, reason we got though to BSN SFs. Otherwise it would have been Scunthorpe. 🤷‍♀️😄

Don't see how you can plan for heat 15 with a super heat in mind. Whether you are in front or behind you will surely be targeting maximum points from heat 15.

[Gavan]

It’s a silly concept … Ipswich deserved a draw last night and so did Belle Vue for battling back 

 

[szkocjasid]

I don't see the need for it. If a meeting ends in a draw then it's already been an exciting end to the meeting with a lady heat decider.

While some say it's extra value for money for fans & an extra heat to watch. That's not something fans can plan for, a fan on the fence about whether they go to watch a match, isn't going to day "you know what, let's go incase we get an extra race for our money".

I just don't see what's wrong with a drawn meeting!

 

[1 valve]

32 minutes ago, Gavan said:

It’s a silly concept … Ipswich deserved a draw last night and so did Belle Vue for battling back 

 

You’re absolutely correct.  
The only occasion a superheat could be worth considering would be to decide the aggregate point if/when the scores are level after the two matches.

Or maybe not award one in the event of a tied aggregate?
 

[LisaColette]

13 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

You’re absolutely correct.  
The only occasion a superheat could be worth considering would be to decide the aggregate point if/when the scores are level after the two matches.

Or maybe not award one in the event of a tied aggregate?
 

Need one for aggregate win, unless you go back to 1 v 1 run off. 

[Roger Jacobs]

2 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

An honourable principle to provide an exciting crescendo to a meeting and give fans an extra race in order to decide a winner

However.....

It is flawed by the fact that it means teams score what could be valuable match points that are not available to all competitors 

It cannot be right that teams drawing meetings can ultimately earn more points

In a league scenario much tighter than this seasons cut and dried top 4 it could easily decide who qualifies for the play offs

Example

Team A has finished on 40 points and sit in 3rd place with a healthy race points advantage over those below

Teams B and C are on 39 and 36 points respectively with a home and away double between them remaining

So Team A are safely in the play offs right? Whatever combination of win lose draw between B and C it would be impossible to split the 5 points and see both overhaul Team A

Hold my beer - here comes the super heat!!

2 draws later and 5 match points becomes 7 seeing Team A dumped from the play off positions 

I said all this when it was first introduced.

The final heat in a match that ends as a draw is the exciting crescendo - that's it!

The final heat in a match that ends 46-44 or 44-46 is most likely a tense or exciting crescendo - why is that result any different to a draw?

The Stupid Heat is a gimmick.  The usual BSPA/L "good idea" that is accepted without any testing or wargaming.

[LisaColette]

58 minutes ago, Gavan said:

It’s a silly concept … Ipswich deserved a draw last night and so did Belle Vue for battling back 

 

True but before the superheat came along, you had 2 league points for an away draw and 1 point for a home one. So with Ipswich winning the superheat, not any difference in the end. 

[The Cheese]

There's not really any need for it but as a neutral I certainly don't mind seeing another race with the top riders. Before heat 15 last night I was hoping for that result for another chance to see those four.

For anyone more involved I understand why it's seen as a farce though.

Edited yesterday at 11:46 AM by The Cheese

[szkocjasid]

If the BSPL really don't like draws, why stop half way? Award 2 points for a superheat win & 0 for a superheat loss?

[kelvinht]

I don't see the need for a superheat. If it's a draw, it's a draw. Not convinced you should have one for the bonus point either as that typically favours the home team.

What I would do is make matches 16 heats and have 2 nominated heats, where you have to use 4 different riders. Would benefit teams who aren't quite so top heavy and give us all an extra heat. Would need some thought as to which team names riders first and 7 ride max for a rider, not include heat 15/16

[szkocjasid]

3 minutes ago, kelvinht said:

I don't see the need for a superheat. If it's a draw, it's a draw. Not convinced you should have one for the bonus point either as that typically favours the home team.

What I would do is make matches 16 heats and have 2 nominated heats, where you have to use 4 different riders. Would benefit teams who aren't quite so top heavy and give us all an extra heat. Would need some thought as to which team names riders first and 7 ride max for a rider, not include heat 15/16

That happened from 94-96, when they went from the one big league back to 2 divisions, they dropped back to 15 heat matches.

[gjcone44]

thats what happens in Poland last 2 hts nominated

[mikebv]

59 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

That happened from 94-96, when they went from the one big league back to 2 divisions, they dropped back to 15 heat matches.

Six points more money paying for 16 heats and not 15....

[blue witch]

Keep 15 heats but just do 2 nominated races. Reserves only 3 rides each and it would make it more worth the money seeing the big guys an extra time each. Should adopt the TS rules of Poland too. I also agree just have a superheat/run off for agg purposes

[therefused]

25 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Six points more money paying for 16 heats and not 15....

dont worry theyll just stick a fiver on admission price to cover the cost