IainB Posted yesterday at 09:06 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:06 AM Just now, SteveLyric2 said: OK I'll get 'Arry to give Barry and Eddie a call on the blower. Its a touch... Seriously though if the Hearns did want to get involved in Speedway (which I'm pretty sure they don't) then the SGP series would probably be the way to go. It has a proven track record by the previous promoters to WBD staging events in big stadia at destination cities attracting big crowds and you could argue was on the cusp of going mainstream at that time, so it's been proven that it can be done and an audience is out there, the series is just missing the characters for the public to get involved with, the razzamataz, the hype etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted yesterday at 10:20 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 10:20 AM 1 hour ago, IainB said: Seriously though if the Hearns did want to get involved in Speedway (which I'm pretty sure they don't) then the SGP series would probably be the way to go. It has a proven track record by the previous promoters to WBD staging events in big stadia at destination cities attracting big crowds and you could argue was on the cusp of going mainstream at that time, so it's been proven that it can be done and an audience is out there, the series is just missing the characters for the public to get involved with, the razzamataz, the hype etc. I agree with this, running a league is not really their thing but running something like the GP is but there are a couple of things which are odd like Redknapp asking Hearn and doing the publicity pics and then 3 of the shareholders in speedway futures Ltd are sport management people including ex motox rider Jamie Dobb, why ? Do they know something is coming ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted yesterday at 11:23 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 11:23 AM 48 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I agree with this, running a league is not really their thing but running something like the GP is but there are a couple of things which are odd like Redknapp asking Hearn and doing the publicity pics and then 3 of the shareholders in speedway futures Ltd are sport management people including ex motox rider Jamie Dobb, why ? Do they know something is coming ? Hopefully... "Anything" that delivers 21st Century marketing being that hope.... A great piece in the Speedway Star today from Tony Mcdonald covering how similar so many of todays issues are with the sport 40 years ago, and the way so much of what we have today is a legacy of failing to change when, often, the writing was clearly on the wall by carrying on doing the same thing each season... You have to wonder, looking at the crowds now, if we are now at "ground zero" and necessity will actually truly be the mother of invention, and those in charge actually start to work collectively realising that they are really "one entity" and only as strong as their weakest link... One team getting 5000+ for a play off final is all well and good, however, dozens and dozens of meetings around the county being ran in front of circa 500, or even less, each season far outweighs that one night when the sport looked "popular".... Dozens and dozens of meetings with 500 MORE in attendance each meeting, has to be the initial momentum building target... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted 21 hours ago Report Share Posted 21 hours ago I reckon that I was so lucky to watch and support Speedway during the 'sixties' and 'seventies'.. It was never perfect, but it was entertaining. The different competitions, Pairs, Four Team Tournaments, Internationals, Individual Meetings, (Proper) League Racing where the Team that won the League were actually allowed to win it (no 'Play Offs'). No Grand Prix either, just a proper Individual World Final that really meant something with loads of Qualifying Meetings. It was open to ALL riders, not just the selected few. There was even a chance for Second Division riders to win it. Compare that to what we have now. Plain League Racing, the odd Pairs Event, the very rare Individual Meeting and the odd GP. So little variation. No the wonder that people are voting with their feet. If I were able to attend, I am not sure that I would, Speedway has changed so much, and not for the better. Where are all the Characters these days? 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted 21 hours ago Report Share Posted 21 hours ago 16 minutes ago, The White Knight said: Where are all the Characters these days? They are on here giving expert advise as to how to remedy UK speedway's slide into oblivion. And apparently most favour Two visions - so if that happens the 'slide' will obviously continue !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 21 hours ago Report Share Posted 21 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, The White Knight said: I reckon that I was so lucky to watch and support Speedway during the 'sixties' and 'seventies'.. It was never perfect, but it was entertaining. The different competitions, Pairs, Four Team Tournaments, Internationals, Individual Meetings, (Proper) League Racing where the Team that won the League were actually allowed to win it (no 'Play Offs'). No Grand Prix either, just a proper Individual World Final that really meant something with loads of Qualifying Meetings. It was open to ALL riders, not just the selected few. There was even a chance for Second Division riders to win it. Compare that to what we have now. Plain League Racing, the odd Pairs Event, the very rare Individual Meeting and the odd GP. So little variation. No the wonder that people are voting with their feet. If I were able to attend, I am not sure that I would, Speedway has changed so much, and not for the better. Where are all the Characters these days? Add in that we have lost 15 teams in the past decade.... Wolves, Coventry, Birmingham, Somerset, Lakeside, Rye House, Peterborough, Swindon, Stoke, Newcastle, Eastbourne, Oxford (top tier), and the IOW and Mildenhall, (NORA), (Kent got replaced 'ish'), and Cradley stopped riding at Wolves, and you have to wonder what standard we would have today if all these teams were in any of the 3 leagues, given the lack of rider numbers.. As the song goes... "The Only Way Is Up!!!".. Edit. Add in Buxton, but they are coming back.. (Dean, get that Wessie out, you are their No1!!!)...😁 Edited 20 hours ago by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 19 hours ago Report Share Posted 19 hours ago (edited) 4 hours ago, mikebv said: Add in that we have lost 15 teams in the past decade.... Wolves, Coventry, Birmingham, Somerset, Lakeside, Rye House, Peterborough, Swindon, Stoke, Newcastle, Eastbourne, Oxford (top tier), and the IOW and Mildenhall, (NORA), (Kent got replaced 'ish'), and Cradley stopped riding at Wolves, and you have to wonder what standard we would have today if all these teams were in any of the 3 leagues, given the lack of rider numbers.. As the song goes... "The Only Way Is Up!!!".. Edit. Add in Buxton, but they are coming back.. (Dean, get that Wessie out, you are their No1!!!)...😁 I’m riding something better than a Wessie now, I’m riding a 1952 jap 4B, I will be having a blast up in those hills soon Edited 17 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted 15 hours ago Report Share Posted 15 hours ago 8 hours ago, mikebv said: Hopefully... "Anything" that delivers 21st Century marketing being that hope.... A great piece in the Speedway Star today from Tony Mcdonald covering how similar so many of todays issues are with the sport 40 years ago, and the way so much of what we have today is a legacy of failing to change when, often, the writing was clearly on the wall by carrying on doing the same thing each season... You have to wonder, looking at the crowds now, if we are now at "ground zero" and necessity will actually truly be the mother of invention, and those in charge actually start to work collectively realising that they are really "one entity" and only as strong as their weakest link... One team getting 5000+ for a play off final is all well and good, however, dozens and dozens of meetings around the county being ran in front of circa 500, or even less, each season far outweighs that one night when the sport looked "popular".... Dozens and dozens of meetings with 500 MORE in attendance each meeting, has to be the initial momentum building target... 4TT held in Switzerland Israel Palestine Russia Ukraine If that don't get the eyes of the World watching then the sport is dead on it's feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 15 hours ago Report Share Posted 15 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Triple.H. said: 4TT held in Switzerland Israel Palestine Russia Ukraine If that don't get the eyes of the World watching then the sport is dead on it's feet. Over a quarter of a million views on two YouTube channels (so far), of Wright v Allen fighting... There is interest if those who run it can facilitate something that can prick the interest of those who are not regular followers... Whether they have the required skill set to do so, is a different matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 14 hours ago Report Share Posted 14 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Over a quarter of a million views on two YouTube channels (so far), of Wright v Allen fighting... There is interest if those who run it can facilitate something that can prick the interest of those who are not regular followers... Whether they have the required skill set to do so, is a different matter... I keep seeing various fights at ice hockey matches, so I asked some ice hockey fans do the players get fined or get any form of ban if they fight and the reply was no it’s practically encouraged, although if you have too many fights you gets points and then get a match ban, so why do we take such a pussyfooted approach to any kind of handbags Edited 14 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlandred Posted 14 hours ago Report Share Posted 14 hours ago 22 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I keep seeing various fights at ice hockey matches, so I asked some ice hockey fans do the players get fined or get any form of ban if they fight and the reply was no it’s practically encouraged, although if you have too many fights you gets points and then get a match ban, so why do we take such a pussyfooted approach to any kind of handbags Quite similar to F1 - watch the tv ads, highlighting the crashes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 5 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I keep seeing various fights at ice hockey matches, so I asked some ice hockey fans do the players get fined or get any form of ban if they fight and the reply was no it’s practically encouraged, although if you have too many fights you gets points and then get a match ban, so why do we take such a pussyfooted approach to any kind of handbags At one time, the ruling body cracked down on it as it was felt it wasn't a "good look" for the sport, and damaged it's brand given other major US sports didn't have such things happening with such regularity.... I don't think the crack down lasted even a season due to the fans complaining... Gloves off! As you were lads!!!...😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 4 hours ago, mikebv said: At one time, the ruling body cracked down on it as it was felt it wasn't a "good look" for the sport, and damaged it's brand given other major US sports didn't have such things happening with such regularity.... I don't think the crack down lasted even a season due to the fans complaining... Gloves off! As you were lads!!!...😁 This brings back the question of Should speedway be promoted as a 'family sport'? It's been so for decades and look where that has got us! The crash and fight between Allen and Wright got more publicity from one single incident than a whole season of the 'family-friendly' approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 9 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I keep seeing various fights at ice hockey matches, so I asked some ice hockey fans do the players get fined or get any form of ban if they fight and the reply was no it’s practically encouraged, although if you have too many fights you gets points and then get a match ban, so why do we take such a pussyfooted approach to any kind of handbags They call them "Goons" 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, SteveLyric2 said: This brings back the question of Should speedway be promoted as a 'family sport'? It's been so for decades and look where that has got us! The crash and fight between Allen and Wright got more publicity from one single incident than a whole season of the 'family-friendly' approach. Exactly this! Speedway is an "extreme sport" and should be marketed as such to attract a younger demographic. I watch more Grasstrack nowadays, I think this suffers from the "family sport" image as well. There's a YouTube channel, Grasstrack SPORT.com, featuring the best! crashes. Is there a Speedway equivalent for crashes and fights? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, SteveLyric2 said: This brings back the question of Should speedway be promoted as a 'family sport'? It's been so for decades and look where that has got us! The crash and fight between Allen and Wright got more publicity from one single incident than a whole season of the 'family-friendly' approach. I think it goes back to the 70's and 80's when football had a major issue with hooliganism... Hence, it seemed a potential marketing idea to advertise itself as somewhere you could take your kids to watch a team sport in a "safe environment". Sadly, in line with so much that still exists within the sport, something that may have have been fit for purpose 40 to 50 years ago is still being used in today's very different times... Any marketing company worth their salt would focus on the danger, speed and almost gladiatorial nature of the racing, and focus on the personalities of the competitors to let them become "stars", (with the odd bit of personal needle a bonus, even if made up for a bit of hype!) You only have to see how Nicki P became "box office" playing the pantomime villain, with the producer even ensuring his return to the pits was filmed after a defeat knowing a reaction would come... The well meaning custodians of the sport really do need to take a leap of faith and bring outside marketing people in to almost relaunch it with a fresh 21st century approach... After all, as you say, doing what they done for decades isn't showing any sign of getting the cut through required is it? Edited 2 hours ago by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 19 minutes ago, Rich said: Exactly this! Speedway is an "extreme sport" and should be marketed as such to attract a younger demographic. I watch more Grasstrack nowadays, I think this suffers from the "family sport" image as well. There's a YouTube channel, Grasstrack SPORT.com, featuring the best! crashes. Is there a Speedway equivalent for crashes and fights? There are some FIM SGP crashes appearing on-line. There are usually Crash & Cock up DVD's available. I may be wrong, but none of the UK production companies seem to put them available for free-to-air viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, IainB said: They call them "Goons" 😂 Telford Tigers had a couple of those back in the Chuck Taylor era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanBrannan Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 17 hours ago, mikebv said: Add in that we have lost 15 teams in the past decade.... Wolves, Coventry, Birmingham, Somerset, Lakeside, Rye House, Peterborough, Swindon, Stoke, Newcastle, Eastbourne, Oxford (top tier), and the IOW and Mildenhall, (NORA), (Kent got replaced 'ish'), and Cradley stopped riding at Wolves, and you have to wonder what standard we would have today if all these teams were in any of the 3 leagues, given the lack of rider numbers.. As the song goes... "The Only Way Is Up!!!".. Edit. Add in Buxton, but they are coming back.. (Dean, get that Wessie out, you are their No1!!!)...😁 Speedway is fighting in the face of extremely challenging and unhelpful outside forces too. The list above kind of suggests it is speedway's fault or a lack of interest causing these clubs to shut down. I believe were it not for the lure of land development or one particular greyhound operator who dislikes speedway with a passion, the majority of those would still be running today. Wolves for example you cannot in a million years suggest was a failing prospect as a speedway team. Yes there are many things in speedway which could be improved, but the biggest and most complex issue is stadium ownership / land to race speedway. Taking that list: ARC Greyhound Racing have effectively shut down Wolves, Birmingham & Newcastle for various excuses. Land being sold for development has claimed: Coventry, Cradley, Lakeside, Rye House, Peterborough, Swindon, Stoke and Covid brought things to a head with Somerset which has also now been developed on part of the land. Eastbourne - Owners down want to run speedway There are still tracks at Mildenhall and IOW, that's down to other decisions and personal arguments as to why they are not in the league, but the tracks are there. So as we can see, the big issue here before we get into the sport itself is land ownership. That is the reason why most of these clubs are no longer here. Birmingham would absolutely be running next year if the stadium hadn't been taken away, as for most of the rest of that list. It is a massive problem, however just saying use it or lose it doesn't make a difference, the developers do not care even a tiny bit. They also don't care about the letters of support or petitions which are sent in when a track is under threat. But there is good news, the Coventry appeal ruling is now a significant piece of case law, and it is going to make life an awful lot harder for people to do what they have done in the past again, without first providing a suitable alternative for a sporting venue. And that means not just whacking a 5 a side court down in place of a 100 year old speedway stadium. To this effect, I have only this week recorded a podcast with a man called Brian Connolly, he is a speedway fan but also a former solicitor and planning expert. He played a significant role in getting the team together to defend Coventry, and he's also had some success this week with Peterborough. He's also working on Rye House, Lakeside and Swindon. You can listen to it here https://pod.fo/e/3430a4 it is the 2nd part after the Poole stuff. It is interesting and shows the realities of what has gone on, and how there can be a way back for these tracks, but speedway has to learn to outsmart the developers, and we are getting there thanks to people like Brian and his contacts. There are many battles to be had in speedway but this is the biggest one, and hopefully the tide is turning, slowly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 14 minutes ago, IanBrannan said: Speedway is fighting in the face of extremely challenging and unhelpful outside forces too. The list above kind of suggests it is speedway's fault or a lack of interest causing these clubs to shut down. I believe were it not for the lure of land development or one particular greyhound operator who dislikes speedway with a passion, the majority of those would still be running today. Wolves for example you cannot in a million years suggest was a failing prospect as a speedway team. Yes there are many things in speedway which could be improved, but the biggest and most complex issue is stadium ownership / land to race speedway. Taking that list: ARC Greyhound Racing have effectively shut down Wolves, Birmingham & Newcastle for various excuses. Land being sold for development has claimed: Coventry, Cradley, Lakeside, Rye House, Peterborough, Swindon, Stoke and Covid brought things to a head with Somerset which has also now been developed on part of the land. Eastbourne - Owners down want to run speedway There are still tracks at Mildenhall and IOW, that's down to other decisions and personal arguments as to why they are not in the league, but the tracks are there. So as we can see, the big issue here before we get into the sport itself is land ownership. That is the reason why most of these clubs are no longer here. Birmingham would absolutely be running next year if the stadium hadn't been taken away, as for most of the rest of that list. It is a massive problem, however just saying use it or lose it doesn't make a difference, the developers do not care even a tiny bit. They also don't care about the letters of support or petitions which are sent in when a track is under threat. But there is good news, the Coventry appeal ruling is now a significant piece of case law, and it is going to make life an awful lot harder for people to do what they have done in the past again, without first providing a suitable alternative for a sporting venue. And that means not just whacking a 5 a side court down in place of a 100 year old speedway stadium. To this effect, I have only this week recorded a podcast with a man called Brian Connolly, he is a speedway fan but also a former solicitor and planning expert. He played a significant role in getting the team together to defend Coventry, and he's also had some success this week with Peterborough. He's also working on Rye House, Lakeside and Swindon. You can listen to it here https://pod.fo/e/3430a4 it is the 2nd part after the Poole stuff. It is interesting and shows the realities of what has gone on, and how there can be a way back for these tracks, but speedway has to learn to outsmart the developers, and we are getting there thanks to people like Brian and his contacts. There are many battles to be had in speedway but this is the biggest one, and hopefully the tide is turning, slowly. I have to say I didn't get the impression that the original post was suggesting it was speedway's fault, it was simply stating the reality. While I agree with your general point, I don't think we should completely disregard "use it or lose it". Ultimately, it's been so easy for developers to claim the land and build on it, because we are a minority sport with a dwindling number of attendees. It's not to say that they wouldn't have done the same anyway - it's their land after all - but how many tracks would've closed down if they had genuinely good attendances and were profitable for their landlords? I'm confident Newcastle would've survived, and would Eastbourne's owners turn down a healthy financial stream if it was available? The sport just doesn't have the financial or political clout to even begin fending off any of these developers, never mind winning the battle against them. When you compare the number of football stadia that's been closed down and built on against the club's will, the difference is stark. It sounds like some positive progress is being made with what you've mentioned, I would love more than anything for a real difference to be made. Ultimately, though, while it might not entirely be speedway's fault, or due to a lack of interest, that the clubs shut down, it's hard to say it didn't play a pretty big role. A successful, thriving sport is less likely to have their stadia and facilities taken away than one that's struggling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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